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Is there really evidence that Razmir is backed by the illusion goddess Sivanah? If so, what's the source for that info?
It's inferred from stuff in Gods & Magic.
p. 47
"Sivanah's illusionists may become priests of the church, and their shadow conjuration spells can duplicate conjuration (healing) spells. Veiled witches of Irrisen have been seen in Razmiran, perhaps as envoys from Baba Yaga to the Living God or out of an interest in exchanging magic."
p. 57 has magic items for various gods, including one for Razmir, the Holy Mask of the Living God, which has an aura of 'moderate illusion (shadow)' and creation requirements of shadow conjuration and allows its user to cast cure light wounds 1/day (among other things).
So, the existence of the Mask, which would seem could only be crafted by Illusionist 'priests' of Sivanah (using shadow conjuration to fake cure spells), as the listed signature magic item for the faith of Razmir, suggests that Sivanah's clergy are up to their sexy thigh-high-boots in helping Razmir's clergy perpetuate the illusion that they can provide healing.
Of course, the ideal 'priest' of Razmir is probably a Bard anyway, who has cure light wounds on their spell list, and should be crazy good at inspiring oratory and persuasion and stuff. (Although Alchemists, Witches, etc. are yet more sources of arcane healing, and the game has cure spells and healing options available to Rangers, Druids, Adepts, Oracles, etc. who don't need a *real* god...)
A Paladin of Razmir doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, thematically (even less than a Paladin of Asmodeus, IMO!), but, if allowed, an Inquisitor of Razmir sounds *very* thematic! Some sort of Razmiran Inquisitor Archetype that swaps out the Domain access (and any requirement to serve an actual god, and favored weapon proficiency) for something else could rock! The game / setting's already crawling with divine casters who don't need gods, so the spellcasting could stay as is, for the most part.
That is one thing I wondered about when writing up a bard 'priest' of Razmir. Favored weapon. Real churches have them, so Razmiran's church would likely at least *pretend* to have one. He was a wizard (sorcerer, whatever), so dagger and staff seem the first choices. He's also a god associated with rulership and luxury and being all lawful and evil, so the rapier or the whip might also work for him, thematically, and, frabjous day, all are weapons that a bard starts out with anyway! :)
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As a 19th-level Wizard Razmir has a few powerful tricks up his sleeve that really hinder divinations. The most important of them is nondetection, a simple 3rd-level spell that, if anyone tries to divine answers about Razmir, must beat a DC 34 caster-level check. This means the lowest level person who could successfully cast a divination on Razmir would be 14th and they would have to roll a 20 on their caster-level check.
This is assuming that with all of the resources of a conquered nation at his disposal Razmir hasn't researched a unique version of that spell that allows him to answer divinations in regards to his identity/status personally, possibly in conjunction with wish or other powerful non-mythic spells.
That's just one spell that pretty much entirely shut down the "Is Razmir a god?" line of inquisition for most people.
You know, I keep forgetting he's a wizard. I always think sorcerer for some reason. But, nope, Inner Sea Magic page 7 proves me wrong once again. It's strange I can never remember that. :)
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Nope. Razmir is divine. Mythic does not beat godhood.
But Tar-Baphon does, so your argument (like your god) is false.
Nope. Razmir is divine. Mythic does not beat godhood.But Tar-Baphon does, so your argument (like your god) is false.
Ooooh, nice Raz-burn!
Nope. Razmir is divine. Mythic does not beat godhood.But Tar-Baphon does, so your argument (like your god) is false.
You sir are metagaming.
That being said, Razmir is true divinity incarnate on the material plane. You'd do well not to blaspheme him and to give him your worship.
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The difference between Razmir and Tar-Baphon, however, is even more extreme.Razmir can't just be considered on his own. If you're going to take on the Master of the 31 steps, you're not going to be facing just one entity, you're going to be facing his entire cult. You're going to be facing someone who took down an entire city state in one night without the need for an armed siege.
It's the height of arrogance to assume that anyone knows anything beyond the few lines that's been published about his stats. You can have two 19th level wizards, both of which will be powerful characters, but Wizard A can be light years beyond Wizard B because he's got surprises other than his core rulebook class levels.
Razmir's description as a 19th level caster is only the beginning. We really don't have a clue what the rest of it might entail. All we know is that he's lasted long enough and has the wherewithal to conquer an entire nation. and set up a cult whose reach and potential are not to be laughed at.
In which case we must also consider the entirety of the whispering way -- me thinks that again is the more substantial threat, especially considering all the underlings of Tar-baphon that we know are still floating (in some cases literally) around.
I for one find this blasphemy outrageous...
we all know of our lord Razmir's Omnipotence...
In 4661 AR our lord Razmir saved us from the Chaos. Gained his Divinity.. and used his divine power to turn the city of Melcat to ash overnight...
Wasn't the city named Aerduin, and the duchy named Melcat? If the entire Duchy was turned to ash, I would think there wouldn't be a Razmiran.
On another note, I really love this lore, and have added it to my multi-setting mash-up, but I have yet to figure-out any specific adventures to set there (its in an area with the Red Curse, which Razmir is greatly interested in). I may have it where agents of his are kidnapping children from other places (to do all sort of unholy experiments on).
Or he could just be collecting their souls...
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Doesn't Tar-Baphon have underlings that are a valid threat to Razmir?
I mean when a guy's henchmen are on level with you the question must be asked why you even think you could be in his league.
Never underestimate the power of intelligence when you have 9th level spells at your disposal. His holiness Razmir is almighty. Tar stands no chance.
You sir are metagaming.
Methinks there may be some pot/kettle action going on here. :)
(I'm still waiting on more of your take, though, Fnip. Sounds interesting.)
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Nope. Razmir is divine. Mythic does not beat godhood.But Tar-Baphon does, so your argument (like your god) is false.You sir are metagaming.
That being said, Razmir is true divinity incarnate on the material plane. You'd do well not to blaspheme him and to give him your worship.
I agree it would be blaspheme to worship him and I better not do it.
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I'm still in the process of creating everything for it. What all are you wanting to see and ill pushthrough it tomorrow and get it posted?
I'm still in the process of creating everything for it. What all are you wanting to see and ill pushthrough it tomorrow and get it posted?
Just whatever, really, it sounds nifty. Mostly I'm interested in the flavor and home-brewed ideas you mentioned before... whatever those are! If you don't feel like, it you don't have to. I just like resources to use or not in my own games. :)
You know, I keep forgetting he's a wizard. I always think sorcerer for some reason. But, nope, Inner Sea Magic page 7 proves me wrong once again. It's strange I can never remember that. :)
Perhaps you read this thread where someone suggested a divine sorcerer build and sought advice for a spell list.
Ok. I'll post my ideas later today. Got some work to get done first and then I'll get the info up.
You know, I keep forgetting he's a wizard. I always think sorcerer for some reason. But, nope, Inner Sea Magic page 7 proves me wrong once again. It's strange I can never remember that. :)Perhaps you read this thread where someone suggested a divine sorcerer build and sought advice for a spell list.
It's quite possible, but... I don't actually remember that thread (of course, my recent memory issues might make that mean nothing). It looks cool, though! Thanks! :)
I think I just got it wrong somewhere along the way and have had trouble shedding myself of that piece of misinformation.
Also, cool Fnip!
I haven't forgotten to post. I've been running all over today and haven't had time to finish all my ideas. I have about half of it done and then I have to finally make some homebrew things and then I'll post it. Should be done tonight.
I haven't forgotten to post. I've been running all over today and haven't had time to finish all my ideas. I have about half of it done and then I have to finally make some homebrew things and then I'll post it. Should be done tonight.
No worries! I, of all people, understand real life getting in the way of stuff. We're cool. :D
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The following is my take on how the Church of Razmir operates and is by no means cannon. This is just what I have come up with to expand on my favorite aspect of Golarion and to aid myself since my next character is a Razmiran Priest. Hope yall enjoy.
Introduction
Razmir appeared in the lands of the River Kingdoms in 4661 AR, claiming that he achieved divinity through the use of the Starstone. Since then, he has established a nation bearing his name, expanded his kingdom at the expense of others, and has established his own church, complete with a well trained clergy. What no one realizes (save a few Visions of the 15th Step) is that Razmir is not a god, but a false god. In reality, he is an aging man looking for a way to stop his eventual demise to old age. Why the Visions of the 15th Step don't reveal his false divinity is a mystery. Maybe Razmir has paid them off in some way. Maybe they believe that one day Razmir will truly gain divinity and will make them his heralds for supporting him even when they knew he was a fraud. Maybe Razmir has powerful magic keeping these individuals from revealing his secret. Whatever the case may be, Razmir is believed by most in his kingdom that he is divine, and many of those outside his kingdom have little reason to doubt his claims. It is therefore believed by most (if not all) that Razmir is in fact divine.
The Church of Razmir
Although Razmir is not a god and is incapable of granting divine magic to his worshipers, the clergy of the Church of Razmir have been trained extensively to hide this truth and to disguise their magic and use of magic devices to make it appear as though they are true clerics of the Master of the 31 Steps. Razmiran Priests are not aware that their god is not a god at all, yet they have been indoctrinated to believe that he is.
Razmir is trying to spread his influence across the Inner Sea Region, as well as find a method to keep himself from dying, and he will resort to any measures necessary to achieve his goals. He has also indoctrinated his priests to do the same. To spread his influence, he must win the hearts and minds of people from other lands, and his clergy are required to do good deeds to make it easier for his influence to spread. Yet, some things that Razmir require would take far too long to obtain if he were to have his clergy remain pristine. Therefore, he requires his followers to also engage in less than noble activities to obtain things that would otherwise never be obtainable in a timely fashion.
Razmiran Priests are given a mask when they complete their training at Thronestep and some are sent out into Razmiran to spread the will of Razmir and bring more followers to his call, while others are sent out into the Inner Sea region to help run temples of the Living God. It is their duty to not only spread Razmir's word, but to also enact deeds of charity and assistance. The priests heal the sick where they can and offer assistance to the town guard, governors, politicians, local businesses, etc. Razmiran Priests are always required to wear their masks and priestly uniforms when enacting such deeds.
Yet this is not all they do in their day to day lives. Razmiran Priests are also required to engage in a number of illegal and immoral activities to assist the Church of Razmir. This can be anything from extortion, information gathering, assassinations, kidnapping, and any other activity that "needs" to be accomplished. When enacting these activities, Razmiran Priests are required to disguise themselves so as never to be directly tied back to the Church of Razmir. Priests do not question their orders or activites since they have been indoctrinated to believe that they are fulfilling a greater service. Since Razmiran Priests are indoctrinated to engage in such activities, both good and evil, many are of a neutral alignment due to their good and evil actions.
These are not the only roles the priests play in the church. Each priest may be asked to fulfill other positions depending on each individual's skill set. Some priests are sent out into the Inner Sea region not to spread the word of Razmir necessarily, but rather to strengthen political and social ties with those of importance in those particular regions. These Razmiran Priests will work with the local temples of Razmir (if there is one in the area) and also offer to provide helpful assistance to the governing body of the city if they are needed. These priests help establish and/or reinforce the Church of Razmir's standing, as well as that of Razmir himself, in that particular region.
Indoctrination of the Razmiran Priests
Within the Exalted Wood is a secret fortress where the would be priests of Razmir undergo their "training." The most important aspect of this process is a method of implanting ideas within each priest's subconscious called Inception. These ideas are implanted so deeply and in such a simplistic form that these ideas become second nature to the priest. The reasoning for these ideas is not necessary to implant them, and since Razmir himself performs each priest's Inception, only he knows exactly what ideas are being implanted and what simplistic form they need to be in for the priest's mind to accept the idea as his own. One such idea is that the priest must make elaborate lies when questioned about the priest's actions or the actions of the church in an effort to make the Church of Razmir appear as a beacon of all that is good.
Due to their heavily indoctrinated state, Razmiran Priests have been told that their spell casting is a little different than other clergy since their god is actually on the material plane. They have also been told that they will be required to do whatever is necessary for the glory of Razmir, but depending on what those tasks may be will dictate how they go about completing it (whether they should perform the tasks in priestly garb or not). They do not question why they mask the use of wands and rings to make the items effects appear as their own, nor do they question why they constantly lie when questioned about their actions. Razmiran Priests will only use their cure spells (those granted to them through the Razmiran Priest prestige class) while in combat. These spells grant temporary hit points instead of real hit points but the appearance of the wounds healed in this manner look and feel like they've actually been healed. Since they are aware that their magic is "different" due to their deity being on the material plane, any individual that feels sluggish or falls unconscious when the temporary hit points vanish after combat is explained away by the Razmiran Priest as that target just being tired from the combat and while the priest healed his wounds, he did not cure the target of being fatigued afterwards.
There's more but I have to go and I wanted to get this up on here today since I promised it would be. Below are some game mechanics for those interesting in playing Razmiran Priests.
New Church of Razmir Resources
5 TPA, 1 CPA: Receive a Holy Mask of the Living God (Gods & Magic, pg. 57) and you may use cure light wounds through the mask twice per day.
10 TPA, 5 CPA: Receive an Exalted Mask of the Living God and the DC is increased by 2 for anyone attempting to cast dispel magic on your mask.
20 TPA, 10 CPA, must be a Herald of the Eighth Step: Host a dinner party, funded by the Church of Razmir, in which many of the city’s merchants and vendors are invited to attend. The party may take place in a relatively nice part of the city, the food is of comparatively good quality, and music is provided by a band led by a 6th level Bard. While hosting this dinner party, you receive a +4 bonus on all Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Perform, and Sense Motive checks.
35 TPA, 15 CPA, must be a Mask of the Twelfth Step: Host a dinner party, funded by the Church of Razmir, in which many of the city’s upper class (as well as clergy from other religions) are invited to attend. The party may take place in a dinner hall located in the main district of the upper class, the food is of good quality, and music is provided by a band led by an 8th level Bard. While hosting this dinner party, you receive a +6 bonus on all Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Perform, and Sense Motive checks.
50 TPA, 20 CPA, must be a Vision of the Fifteenth Step: Host a dinner party, funded by the Church of Razmir, in which the city’s, as well as the country’s, governing body and/or nobility are invited to attend. The party may take place in a palace or other comparatively high quality dinner hall, the food is fit for a king, and music is provided by a band led by a 10th level Bard. While hosting this dinner party, you receive a +8 bonus on all Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Perform, and Sense Motive checks.
Exalted Mask of the Living God
Aura moderate illusion (shadow); CL 5th
Slot mask; Price 3,000 gp; Weight 3 lbs.
Description This mask is more commonly worn by Razmiran Priests who venture outside of Razmiran and possesses all the abilities of a Holy Mask of the Living God (Gods & Magic, pg. 57), with the following additions. If Razmir is your patron, anyone other than yourself attempting to remove your mask removes a replica of the mask that stays in their hand for 1 round, before dissipating into nothingness, while your mask remains comfortably on your face. If the mask is targeted by dispel magic in an attempt to remove it and reveal your true identity, you become instantly aware of such action. This may result in you being awakened from the unconscious condition so that you may protect your identity, but it does not allow you to ignore the effects of paralysis, stunned, and other conditions that restrict movement. If your mask is targeted by dispel magic while you are unconscious from being reduced to negative hit points, you are immediately awakened and stabilized, and can act as if you have the Diehard feat.
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, cause fear, shadow conjuration, creator must have at least 5 ranks in Heal and Intimidate; Cost 1,500 gp
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I'm sad to see that this thread died after I posted all that stuff. What gives?
Anyways, here's another resource for yall
20 TPA, 2 CPA, must be a Herald of the Eighth Step: Utilize the church’s covert underground allies in a city to gain a +10 to one Diplomacy check to gather information.
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Ironically: real life, for me, plus working on my own project. I like the addition, though!
Thanks. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I'd like to see what other people can contribute to broaden this subject.
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I have/had a character I built that was the "Angel of Razmir" Aasimar sorcerer(false priest) that was raise in a Razmiran orphanage and had wings. First time I thought to use the 'scroll spell book' idea.
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I have a feeling that Razmir's running out of time. He COULD try the Starstone, but is too scared of failure (not to mention making his followres question his story). His other options include lichhood which would hamper the whole "living' god.
I see him as a powerful but very cowardly wizard who's ego got the better of him and he's scrambling for options.