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So I was wondering on the ruling with this in terms of both gameplay and PFS situations.
The Pearly White Spindle Ioun stone regenerates health as if it was a Ring of Regeneration, though much slower. This means that the person using it will have Regeneration.
Now if a person dies with this active, after a few hours, they would have a chance to come back to life. With that said, does that give any penalties, such as negative levels?
Now in terms of PFS. Let us say a guy named Bob dies during the last encounter of a scenario. The Ioun stone was active and he is currently dead. His friend Sally, Andre, and Will retrieved his body and tossed him back at the Pathfinder Lodge. Since he is able to Regenerate over time (downtime between scenarios), does that mean that he can simply negate any cost/PP to raise himself?
If anyone can clarify this, that would be helpful.
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More importantly:
"Regeneration from the pearly white ioun stone works like a ring of regeneration. It only cures damage taken while the character is using the stone. "
and
This white gold ring is generally set with a large green sapphire. When worn, the ring continually allows a living wearer to heal 1 point of damage per round and an equal amount of nonlethal damage.
Dang. Nope, no healing if you are dead
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Regeneration (Ex) A creature with this ability is difficult to kill. Creatures with regeneration heal damage at a fixed rate, as with fast healing, but they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning (although creatures with regeneration still fall unconscious when their hit points are below 0). Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, cause a creature's regeneration to stop functioning on the round following the attack. During this round, the creature does not heal any damage and can die normally. The creature's descriptive text describes the types of damage that cause the regeneration to cease functioning.
So you do not die.
Sme one can beat you to a billion HP, but you would regerate sooner or later. Keep in mind you still need to breathe and eat though.
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Regeneration (Ex) A creature with this ability is difficult to kill. Creatures with regeneration heal damage at a fixed rate, as with fast healing, but they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning (although creatures with regeneration still fall unconscious when their hit points are below 0). Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, cause a creature's regeneration to stop functioning on the round following the attack. During this round, the creature does not heal any damage and can die normally. The creature's descriptive text describes the types of damage that cause the regeneration to cease functioning.So you do not die.
Sme one can beat you to a billion HP, but you would regerate sooner or later. Keep in mind you still need to breathe and eat though.
But neither the ring nor the ioun stone actually give you regeneration. You just get a very similarly worded ability that lacks the pseudo-unkillable facet of the UMA.
EDIT: Dang, ninja'd by 25 seconds.
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Regeneration (Ex) A creature with this ability is difficult to kill. Creatures with regeneration heal damage at a fixed rate, as with fast healing, but they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning (although creatures with regeneration still fall unconscious when their hit points are below 0). Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, cause a creature's regeneration to stop functioning on the round following the attack. During this round, the creature does not heal any damage and can die normally. The creature's descriptive text describes the types of damage that cause the regeneration to cease functioning.So you do not die.
Sme one can beat you to a billion HP, but you would regerate sooner or later. Keep in mind you still need to breathe and eat though.
Neither the regeneration spell, nor the ring of regeneration give you the monster ability Regeneration (Ex), so you are incorrect.
Regeneration from the pearly white ioun stone works like a ring of regeneration. It only cures damage taken while the character is using the stone.
Would suggets you are regenerating.
Now regeration stops when you are dead.
Seeker of secrets also says this
"Pearly white spindle: Regenerate 1 point of damage per
hour. Price: 3,400 gp."
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I don't know, I've always looked at these (and the Ring of Regeneration) and thought that they aren't really worth the cost. 20,000 gp to get 1 HP every 10 minutes? That's 400 potions of clw at d8+1 or 26 wands at 50 charges each (1300 castings). Without bringing you back from the dead (and I agree it looks like it doesn't), it's really only useful if you get knocked unconscious with no one around to heal you, and whatever knocked you unconscious doesn't take the stone. And even then, you'll be lying there for a while before you wake up. The cracked stone is obviously more affordable, but you can still buy a lot of clw for 3,400gp.
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For 20,000gp, I think having it give Fast Healing 1 would have been perfectly reasonable. I used CLW in my example, but for the same cost those could be wands of Infernal Healing (class, alignment, and moral issues allowing). Now at 1,300 castings, you're talking 13,000 points of healing. Or for the UMD challenged, 4,000 points of healing from potions.
I picked up one of these flawed stones without seeing that the normal one has the added text "as the ring of regeneration" thinking that it would give me the regenerate ability also. When I saw the original, I can't say I was surprised, regeneration with no way to turn it off for the low price of an ioun stone is a bit outrageous.
What you can do is embed it in your body via the rules in seeker of secrets and then go around making crazy bets about cutting off your own finger.
Kinda random tangent, but woudn't the ioun stone also cease function upon your death? (unless it was slotted in a wayfinder)
What you can do is embed it in your body via the rules in seeker of secrets and then go around making crazy bets about cutting off your own finger.Reading the future using your own entrails. Ooooh! :-)
No trolling! :)
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Actually, where the cracked stone would really be worth it is the side benefits:
* You do not take bleed damage.
** this implys you auto stabalize
* you heal crippling strikes and organ damage. (It doesn't say how long?)
for 3400, that is pretty nifty, even if the last one is unlikely to come up in society play.
What you can do is embed it in your body via the rules in seeker of secrets and then go around making crazy bets about cutting off your own finger.Reading the future using your own entrails. Ooooh! :-)
There's a troll in Caer Maga that does this.
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I would say yes, it would allow you to 'cheat death' and before you start raging, hear me out.
1) This is a game where terminology is very important as we all know, and most of the terms are very clearly laid out in their meanings. Regeneration...is one of these such words. It is clearly laid out in the rules what regeneration does as opposed to fast healing or regular healing.
2) It says it functions like a ring of regeneration, but i think you have misunderstood the ring's text. The part most of these arguments are based on is the line where it says it only affects a living being...and you guys claim that that line prevents it from allowing you to 'cheat death'. however this is not true. If you read the text for the regeneration, it says "they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning". Thus so long as the magic still affects them, they shall not die and continue to remain a living being... the ring just has some alternate features that it handles differently which it explains in its text (only healing damage done while wearing it etc).
3) It does NOT break the game. While it can let you evade the reapers scythe, this is not gauranteed. And the ioun stone itself does provide healing, this healing is also almost worthless. I'm not going to go into why, i shall just refer you back up to Mistress Ashley The Sage above. She did an excellent job explaining how weak the healing is, and how many better ways to heal there are for your gold. So if it is not for healing, there has to be some worth to it.
In addittion, this would still be a very 'iffy chance to survive. As it was mentioned earlier, should you be left defeated at the hands of most sentient creatures...they would likely search you for loot. and should they find and claim the stone (which as it's generally spinning round your head is fairly likely), suddenly your regeneration is gone and you will die normally. This seems like it's only big function would be to try and keep you 'alive' long enough that your party could get over to you with some healing. (or for an enemy, for the main baddie to 'survive' his horrible deathtrap he made to kill the pc's before they can loot him).
ps- FLite, recovery of limbs happens in one round if they are still there, 2d10 rounds if not. thats as per ring of regen...I would say for the ioun stones, it would happen the same, just using the stone's healing increment (10,15,60 minutes depending on which stone).
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Actually, where the cracked stone would really be worth it is the side benefits:
* You do not take bleed damage.
** this implys you auto stabalize
* you heal crippling strikes and organ damage. (It doesn't say how long?)for 3400, that is pretty nifty, even if the last one is unlikely to come up in society play.
Or lost limbs! :D
Immunity to bleed damage is pretty great, though it doesn't come up a ton, it comes up enough to consider it. Scenarios that span multiple days give you an opportunity to use it to heal as well, though it's not as strong. I think implanting one of these (or wayfinder-ing it) is stronger in home games though.
It also means that in situations where a (practical) TPK occurs, you might survive if whatever it was didn't finish you off. Again, pretty rare, but there are scary traps out there too. It's for this reason that the higher healing rate ioun stones may be worth the purchase. Again, this is probably more useful in home games.
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I would say yes, it would allow you to 'cheat death' and before you start raging, hear me out.
1) This is a game where terminology is very important as we all know, and most of the terms are very clearly laid out in their meanings. Regeneration...is one of these such words. It is clearly laid out in the rules what regeneration does as opposed to fast healing or regular healing.
2) It says it functions like a ring of regeneration, but i think you have misunderstood the ring's text. The part most of these arguments are based on is the line where it says it only affects a living being...and you guys claim that that line prevents it from allowing you to 'cheat death'. however this is not true. If you read the text for the regeneration, it says "they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning". Thus so long as the magic still affects them, they shall not die and continue to remain a living being... the ring just has some alternate features that it handles differently which it explains in its text (only healing damage done while wearing it etc).
3) It does NOT break the game. While it can let you evade the reapers scythe, this is not gauranteed. And the ioun stone itself does provide healing, this healing is also almost worthless. I'm not going to go into why, i shall just refer you back up to Mistress Ashley The Sage above. She did an excellent job explaining how weak the healing is, and how many better ways to heal there are for your gold. So if it is not for healing, there has to be some worth to it.
In addittion, this would still be a very 'iffy chance to survive. As it was mentioned earlier, should you be left defeated at the hands of most sentient creatures...they would likely search you for loot. and should they find and claim the stone (which as it's generally spinning round your head is fairly likely), suddenly your regeneration is gone and you will die normally. This seems like it's only big function would be to try and keep you 'alive' long enough that your...
3,400gp for immunity to death is game breaking.
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Why does it give you bleed immunity?
It grants "regeneration" as per the ring. The ring states it grants immunity to bleed damage. See this link.
I would say yes, it would allow you to 'cheat death' and before you start raging, hear me out.
1) This is a game where terminology is very important as we all know, and most of the terms are very clearly laid out in their meanings. Regeneration...is one of these such words. It is clearly laid out in the rules what regeneration does as opposed to fast healing or regular healing.
2) It says it functions like a ring of regeneration, but i think you have misunderstood the ring's text. The part most of these arguments are based on is the line where it says it only affects a living being...and you guys claim that that line prevents it from allowing you to 'cheat death'. however this is not true. If you read the text for the regeneration, it says "they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning". Thus so long as the magic still affects them, they shall not die and continue to remain a living being... the ring just has some alternate features that it handles differently which it explains in its text (only healing damage done while wearing it etc).
3) It does NOT break the game. While it can let you evade the reapers scythe, this is not gauranteed. And the ioun stone itself does provide healing, this healing is also almost worthless. I'm not going to go into why, i shall just refer you back up to Mistress Ashley The Sage above. She did an excellent job explaining how weak the healing is, and how many better ways to heal there are for your gold. So if it is not for healing, there has to be some worth to it.
In addittion, this would still be a very 'iffy chance to survive. As it was mentioned earlier, should you be left defeated at the hands of most sentient creatures...they would likely search you for loot. and should they find and claim the stone (which as it's generally spinning round your head is fairly likely), suddenly your regeneration is gone and you will die normally. This seems like it's only big function would be to try and keep you 'alive' long enough that your party could get over to you with some healing. (or for an enemy, for the main baddie to 'survive' his horrible deathtrap he made to kill the pc's before they can loot him).ps- FLite, recovery of limbs happens in one round if they are still there, 2d10 rounds if not. thats as per ring of regen...I would say for the ioun stones, it would happen the same, just using the stone's healing increment (10,15,60 minutes depending on which stone).
A fair argument, but flawed. A "Ring of Regeneration" is a name. In the description of what the item does, nowhere does it reference the monster ability "Regeneration" which is where the recovering from death ability originates (e.g. what trolls have).
This white gold ring is generally set with a large green sapphire. When worn, the ring continually allows a living wearer to heal 1 point of damage per round and an equal amount of nonlethal damage. In addition, the wearer is immune to bleed damage while wearing a ring of regeneration. If the wearer loses a limb, an organ, or any other body part while wearing this ring, the ring regenerates it as the spell regenerate. In either case, only damage taken while wearing the ring is regenerated.
That's where the line is drawn between the item and the monster ability. Though the ring mechanically replicates most of the ability, it never ACTUALLY replicates or references the monster ability. You don't "Regenerate" 1hp/round, you heal 1 hp/round. The single use of the term in the last sentence is pretty clearly just using it as a descriptive word, rather than a specific term.
Dropping below -Con health means you still die, and the stone/ring cease to function.
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Why does it give you bleed immunity?
This white gold ring is generally set with a large green sapphire. When worn, the ring continually allows a living wearer to heal 1 point of damage per round and an equal amount of nonlethal damage. In addition, the wearer is immune to bleed damage while wearing a ring of regeneration. If the wearer loses a limb, an organ, or any other body part while wearing this ring, the ring regenerates it as the spell regenerate. In either case, only damage taken while wearing the ring is regenerated.
This stone grants the wearer the ability to regenerate 1 point of damage per 10 minutes. Regeneration works like a ring of regeneration. It only cures damage taken while the character is using the stone.
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Fine. If people want to get stupidly rules lawyery, lets go there.
Where does the language that regeneration prevents you from dying come from? It comes from the UMR regeneration(ex). Lets assume the ring gave you UMR regeneration. (It doesn't, it gives a specific effect. Note that it does not say "gives you regeneration" or "as per the monster ability regeneration")
Regeneration (Ex) A creature with this ability is difficult to kill. Creatures with regeneration heal damage at a fixed rate, as with fast healing, but they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning (although creatures with regeneration still fall unconscious when their hit points are below 0). Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, cause a creature's regeneration to stop functioning on the round following the attack. During this round, the creature does not heal any damage and can die normally. The creature's descriptive text describes the types of damage that cause the regeneration to cease functioning.
What does the Ring of Regeneration list as the attack form that shuts it down?
When worn, the ring continually allows a living wearer to heal 1 point of damage per round and an equal amount of nonlethal damage. In addition, the wearer is immune to bleed damage while wearing a ring of regeneration. If the wearer loses a limb, an organ, or any other body part while wearing this ring, the ring regenerates it as the spell regenerate. In either case, only damage taken while wearing the ring is regenerated.
gee. At first glance, no attack forms are listed. Oh wait, it says only *living* creatures, so that must mean (since it is required by the rules to designate a type of damage that bypasses regeneration) that any damage that would normally kill you bypasses the regeneration, and in that round you do not regenerate and can die.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Why does it give you bleed immunity?This white gold ring is generally set with a large green sapphire. When worn, the ring continually allows a living wearer to heal 1 point of damage per round and an equal amount of nonlethal damage. In addition, the wearer is immune to bleed damage while wearing a ring of regeneration. If the wearer loses a limb, an organ, or any other body part while wearing this ring, the ring regenerates it as the spell regenerate. In either case, only damage taken while wearing the ring is regenerated.This stone grants the wearer the ability to regenerate 1 point of damage per 10 minutes. Regeneration works like a ring of regeneration. It only cures damage taken while the character is using the stone.
Pedandic note. The language of the stone *could* be read to only allow the healing. "This stone grants the wearer the ability to regenerate 1 point of damage per 10 minutes." Not the immunity to bleed, since it is listed as "In addition." in the ring description. I think that would be harsh, but I can see the argument for it.
there is no such thing as true regeneration.
Next question: if you fall unconscious (and prone), do your ioun stones still orbit your head, or do they just keep whacking into the ground?
Interesting question.
Does unconscious count as comatose?
comatose creatures cannot benefit from ioun stones.
Where does it say this?
It has a very poorly worded sentence.
They have no effect on animals, mindless
constructs, and other non-sentient creatures; comatose
intelligent creatures and those with significant Intelligence
damage or drain cannot use ioun stones.
I would argue this means they can not activate the stone.
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Next question: if you fall unconscious (and prone), do your ioun stones still orbit your head, or do they just keep whacking into the ground?
the text of ioun stones is that they change their orbit to avoid any obstacles in their path. this would include the ground. the orbit would shift to being over your face (or back of your head etc depending on your position)
and flite, unconscious is not equal to comatose. they still would function should you be unconscious or sleeping. it even notes that they may be caught for safe storage while their owner sleeps if desired
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It has a very poorly worded sentence.
They have no effect on animals, mindless
constructs, and other non-sentient creatures; comatose
intelligent creatures and those with significant Intelligence
damage or drain cannot use ioun stones.I would argue this means they can not activate the stone.
Comatose has a very specific meaning though. Look at the definitions of what happens when you have ability damage that takes you to 0.
Unconscious and Comatose are different conditions.
It has a very poorly worded sentence.
They have no effect on animals, mindless
constructs, and other non-sentient creatures; comatose
intelligent creatures and those with significant Intelligence
damage or drain cannot use ioun stones.I would argue this means they can not activate the stone.
Comatose has a very specific meaning though. Look at the definitions of what happens when you have ability damage that takes you to 0.
Unconscious and Comatose are different conditions.
As much as I would like to agree with that. Debating that with a DM that thinks comatose and unconscious are same thing.
"Comatose comes from the Greek kōma, "deep sleep." When you're in a deep sleep, your body is still and you don't respond to things around you. Being comatose means being in that sleepy, unresponsive state and not being able to get out of it."
like at negative HP.
I have a character with Fast Healer as a feat (yeah, I know, suboptimal) and a non-raging CON of 22.
He has the 20k version of the Ioun Stone. He also tends to fight with, er, middle-single-digit ACs, DR 5, and about 140 HP.
In this circumstance, the 20k version of the Ioun Stone (which was bought for character fluff reasons) has actually had in-game benefits, because he effectively gets back 1 HP per 2.5 minutes, which means he can say "Naaah, I'll walk it off." (This is the main reason I bought it.)
The party doesn't have to heal him for 100 HP every other fight, which burns out cure light wounds wands fast.
However, this is about the only circumstance where it makes anything vaguely resembling sense in PFS, and it's still "between combats" healing, and thoroughly suboptimal.
It's still fun, though. :)
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Next question: if you fall unconscious (and prone), do your ioun stones still orbit your head, or do they just keep whacking into the ground?
Why wouldn't it just stay implanted in my forehead?
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As much as I would like to agree with that. Debating that with a DM that thinks comatose and unconscious are same thing.
"Comatose comes from the Greek kōma, "deep sleep." When you're in a deep sleep, your body is still and you don't respond to things around you. Being comatose means being in that sleepy, unresponsive state and not being able to get out of it."
like at negative HP.
My Kingdom! My kingdom for an official term database!
...hmm, that gives me an idea...
Next question: if you fall unconscious (and prone), do your ioun stones still orbit your head, or do they just keep whacking into the ground?Why wouldn't it just stay implanted in my forehead?
Would that stop a pathfinder from looting it?
If no, why would that stop an aspis agent?
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Next question: if you fall unconscious (and prone), do your ioun stones still orbit your head, or do they just keep whacking into the ground?Why wouldn't it just stay implanted in my forehead?Would that stop a pathfinder from looting it?
If no, why would that stop an aspis agent?
I know it wouldn't stop any of my characters from looting it (assuming dead, if just unconscious then it would stop most of my characters, though probably not the aspis agents).
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Next question: if you fall unconscious (and prone), do your ioun stones still orbit your head, or do they just keep whacking into the ground?Why wouldn't it just stay implanted in my forehead?
That's why I implant them where nobody would look! :D