You know the Situation:
Day 19. Pick one poor PC Strip him off his weapons and drop him in the bilges. Close the door and have a look at the situation an hour or so later.
Well this time it turned out like this:
My PC is an Alchimist (we havn't used this class before) Level 2 and when he was ordered to the bilges he drank a STR +something homebrew.
Fipps Chumlett and Aretta Benison drew their weapons and were closing in. The Alchemist drank one of his selfmade-potions and started with a better initiative.
He grew two claws and a bite-attackable head. He rolled a bit lucky and had three hits against AC 13.
Damage Output:
W8+4=10 (Bite)
W6+4=8 (Claw) Fipps down
W6+4=9 (Claw) Aretta countered with W4+2=4 and was dead after round 2...
Sooo, I tried to calm down, but that didn't worked out very well.
Even our Fighter with a 2h-bastard sword could not make such damage with a crit.
What fun should this class be? I DONT GET IT !
And for worse the next level improvements will be even more hilarious.
This will split the party in two factions:
The Alchemist and the others who are just sitting there drinking beer/softdrinks and planning characters for the next campaign.
Where is the balance gone?
I am not sure what your complaint is.
Also, it sounds like the alchemist is doing stuff a second level alchemist shouldn't be able to do. Drink a potion and have a better initiative, a better STR and be able to grow two claws and have a bite attack?
I call shenanigans.
ahhh I see what it is now, its the feral mutagen. I think the GM may have made it a little too easy for you there then or might not have facterd the mutagen in (hence why I would not have allowed potions in the room either unless you scored a very high stealth roll to hide it as that is one powerful weapon)
The alchemist drank is mutagen (+4 str,+2 natural armor, -2 int) (with feral discovery (2 claws, 1 bite) than won the initiative? Yeah, but this trick work only for 20 min.
Why didn't they wait for the claw and bite to disappear?
I can live with the STR boost. Hard work in the bilges plus long night before...
What pi**es me off are the three attacks. Basically.
Good point with the 'potion'. The fight started two hours after beginning of the shift.
The fight was of course provoked by the NPCs.
My real problem is how to keep a balance with the other PCs...
But first thing first, i have to read the rules.
Thanks mirona that's it.
If I remember it correctly :
The NPC were closing in with weapons drawn. PC won initiative and drank his mutagen.
NPCs attacked and failed, PC attacked
The first drink wasn't the critical one.
The mutagen is the problem. I doubt there is a second class which can copy this boost in level 2....
Perhaps I am missing something, but I don't see the strength add on the Feral Mutagen:
Benefit: Whenever the alchemist imbibes a mutagen, he gains two claw attacks and a bite attack. These are primary attacks and are made using the alchemist’s full base attack bonus. The claw attacks deal 1d6 points of damage (1d4 if the alchemist is Small) and the bite attack deals 1d8 points of damage (1d6 if the alchemist is Small). While the mutagen is in effect, the alchemist gains a +2 competence bonus on Intimidate skill checks.
Well.... any sorcerer/wizard/witch etc. can do far worse with a sleep or colour spray spell ? Any melee with Power Attack and Cleave feats and a two handed weapon... like some sort of spar/club hidden in the bilge (or even just the pump's beam ripped off ) ?
Although I'd call shenannigans on the homebrew elixier and brewing it ( from what actually does the alchemist produce these ? Does he have access to some sort of fire for brewing/distlling ?) , but that is your call as the GM.
Same goes for picking the alchemist as the "victim" - your call as well. An Alchemist with feral mutagen as one of his first picks is supposedly going down the "melee monster" path of alchemy, so where is the surprise that he is actually capable of high physical damage ?..
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Although I'd call shenannigans on the homebrew elixier and brewing it ( from what actually does the alchemist produce these ? Does he have access to some sort of fire for brewing/distlling ?) , but that is your call as the GM.
The 'exlir' was apparently the mutagen, which if stripped of the mutagen itself and the alchemy equipment + hour needed to brew it, shouldn't have been available. If they 'just' took his weapon it would work.
But beyond that, feral mutagen is the core of the natural attacking alchemist. It's one of the most by-the-book, least cheesy aspects of building one.
If you strip the other PCs naked and leave the alchemist his stuff; sure he'll outshine them. But if they're all under normal assumptions, you shouldn't see an unusual disparity.
Perhaps I am missing something, but I don't see the strength add on the Feral Mutagen:
Benefit: Whenever the alchemist imbibes a mutagen, he gains two claw attacks and a bite attack. These are primary attacks and are made using the alchemist’s full base attack bonus. The claw attacks deal 1d6 points of damage (1d4 if the alchemist is Small) and the bite attack deals 1d8 points of damage (1d6 if the alchemist is Small). While the mutagen is in effect, the alchemist gains a +2 competence bonus on Intimidate skill checks.
Strength is part of the normal mutagen ability itself. Feral Mutagen is a boost to the normal mutagen.
Hmm, our alchemist has focused on his bomb making abilities. The ability to place them precisely is a lot more effective.
Also, is the PC 15 point buy? Higher ability scores make a bigger difference than some expect.
He'll need all the help he can get to survive the keel hauling for killing a crew member.
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It's really not that over powered, perhaps at first with once a day fights it might seem that way but with multiple encounters split out over a whole day it's far from that. He can do this once a day, for 20 minutes.
The 2nd level Barbarian with Power Attack and a not unusual (say 18) strength can hit with a two hander for 2d6+9 every round, all day and with a better chance to hit. Plus he can Rage to gain extra strength, extra hps, possibly an extra attack (Fiend Totem)... all at second level.
Also, if as you said he drank it *when* he was ordered to the bilges, well suddenly he hulked out into a giant beastman! They surely might have reacted and perhaps grabbed him then and there, "What in the hells is it? Kill it with fire!" not been "Oh sure, go into the dark with these guys Mr Monster." Let alone the fact that if they waited for an hour or two to do anything, it would have worn off long ago.
He was supposed to be searched before he went into the bilges so I doubt they would have let him in with the mutagen or his alchemist kit.
On the way to the bilges, the PC bumps into Mr. Plugg and Master Scourge, who search the PC for hidden weapons and forcibly remove any the PC might have..
Aye, need to Keelhaul him!
Oh dear...I clicked the link..the wife said what the heck are you listening too, that would go well with the pirate game you're running..
Guess it will do the job then...
Out of curiosity, what was the alchemist's Sleight of Hands roll when he was searched for weapons before being sent down into the bilges in the first place? Surely the potions would have drawn attention...
When a few of our guys went down there to deal with the dire rats, we searched the area and discovered some weapons - figuring that 1) we better not get caught with them and 2) they could end up being very useful, we carefully re-hid them. When our main Fighter (the one Plugg felt threatened by) was sent down there, he knew somethign was up, and had access to the weapon to defend himself.
@frankmanic
Well yeah, I would say that even a non-caster like Plugg or Scourge would recognise an alchemists kit. All these clinking phiols, beakers, measuring spoons, filters, tubes and connecting hoses...nevermind the odd ingredients (drugs perhaps ?) very interesting, yes indeed ! Nevemid them living in a world/universe where "unconventional" toys and odds indicate odd and unconventional abilities like... magic !
Let's strip him/her !
And actually you don't need weapons down there if you have a magically adept character. I know a witch who "slumbered" both assaulters, same with a bard in my campaign (sleep spell) ... who then proceeded to drown them in the bilgewater/tie up the attackers.
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In the game I ran, the gunslinger was the one I tapped for this encounter. In may game, fire arms are very uncommon to the point that most people don't recognize them. For instance, when he went to retrieve his pistol from Grok, I played it off like she thought it was some kind of smoking pipe.
I let him make an opposed sleight of hand check v. Scourge's search check to smuggle the pistol into the bilge and he passed it. He is a small character so in the bilge, I played it off as the two other pirates got mad that he wasn't strong enough to do his part. One then grappled him and put him in a bear hug while Slippery Syl drew a dagger to stab him. I allowed him to draw his pistol and shoot the one with the dagger while the one holding him let him go and ran to Scourge in fear. This was the big in-game reveal that the "pipe" he carried was actually a weapon. Scourge and a group of pirates came to the bilge and took him prisoner. He was brought before Harrigan with Scourge accusing him of attacking Slipper Syl and Plugg admitting Syl is a psychopath and probably wasn't innocent, though he didn't care what was done with either of them.
Harrigan had him put in the sweatbox since the pirate he shot survived, he wasn't keelhauled immediately. After a couple days, Harrigan let him out. Harrigan had been trying to figure out how the gun worked but was unsuccessful. He had heard of Bonefist's love of fire arms and wanted to see one in action. He told the PC that if he made a good show of the raid of the Man's Promise and showed the type of damage a pistol could do, he'd set him free of the sweatbox and "forgive" what happened in the bilge.
Actually it turned out to be one of the best moments of the whole book. I'd recommend making this part of the AP dramatic and not a simple jailhouse shanking. It can be really cool.
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My hobgoblin fighter Aronok succeeded at smuggling in a dagger, and not only defeated both of them handily, he also grappled and disarmed the other PC (a pirate-hunter ranger) to keep him from finishing off the pirates.
He's a dex-heavy two-weapon fighter built for light weapons, I prefer to use shortswords/gladius with him when I have the option, but he's bad news even with a couple of boot daggers.
Then he did his time in the box without b@#+#ing, because as a hobgoblin he'd had much worse experiences just as part of the training hobgoblins get when they're 4.
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One of my players had a half-orc druid with the peg leg trait... And I'd let her take an oaken peg leg. She took it off and put it over to the side when they first went down to the bilge... You can guess what happened (though it ended with one of the pirates unconscious and the other staggered and 'plea-bargaining' for the life of both lest the crazed half-orc player beat them both to a pulp with her Shillelagh).
As for the player?
She STILL says that this scenario is the best of any game she's ever played. I'll call that a success. ^_^
Something similar: I'm playing a Ratfolk Ranger with Sharpclaw feat (x2 natural attacks, +2 to hit, 1d4 damage each), and *Humans* as my favored enemy. And I have Darkvision.
Locked me in the hold, 'unarmed' (but I basically have 2 daggers in the form of my claws). I immediately smashed the lantern and slammed the hatch shut. So they're blind, but I can see just fine. Tore them to pieces in about 4 rounds. Nearly got executed for killing shipmates.