Sorcerer - Change spell progression

[Thaago]

Hello! I'm starting a new pathfinder campaign after not playing for a while. One of my players wants to be a wizard, the other a sorcerer (5 person party). I'm looking at the spell progression of the sorcerer and it seems really gimped compared to a specialist wizard - spells a level later, barely more spells per day... do you think the sorcerer will overshadow the wizard if I change the spell progression and spells known by 1 level? Ie a 1st level sorcerer uses the lvl 2 row of the table.

Thanks very much for the advice!

[I Hate Nickelback]

Yes, I do. The spells coming a level later are for a reason.

[voska66]

I don't think you will notice much really. Give it a try and discuss it with the player. If it plays out over powered you can dial it back again.

[Kirth Gersen]

Depends on the adventure setup and pacing.

If the party is able to assess situations before getting into them, the wizard will outshine the sorcerer by like 2:1, even if you improve the sorc's spell progression.

On the flip side, if the party is constantly getting dumped into the middle of stuff and you don't ever let them know what's coming, the sorcerer will probably hold his own as is.

If a mix of the two, shifting the sorcerer's bonus spell progression (so he gets his 3rd level bloodline spell at 5th level, for example) wouldn't hurt at all.

[Phntm888]

Keep in mind that a Specialist Wizard needs to select two barred schools of magic. While he can still prepare spells from those schools, it costs him 2 spells slots of that level to do so, lowering his effective spells per day by one for that preparation.

What I would suggest is that, if your Wizard does specialize, advise the Sorcerer to take spells from the Wizard's two barred schools. For instance, if the Wizard bars Evocation and Enchantment, have the Sorcerer pick more spells from those two schools, thus allowing him to cover what the Wizard doesn't have as easy access to. He can tailor his bloodline so that his bloodline spells also benefit that.

Try to evenly mix prepared and spontaneous encounters to help both of them feel like they are contributing. Honestly, if they work together, they could be an incredibly powerful combination.

[Blave]

Both classes are fine as they are. Sorcerers have a slower spell progression but more special abilities. No wizard will beat a Sorcerer at his chosen speciality. Every enchanter wizard would kill for the Fey Bloodline and any kind of save-or-suck build will be great with the +2 DC to one school of the arcane bloodline (available at level 11 with the right robe).

Yes, a Wizard could get some of those abilites by dipping a levl sorc but that negates his spell advantage.

If anything, give the sorc his bloodline spells a level earlier, similar to the oracle's mystery spells. Other than that, nothing needs to change.

[Thaago]

Thanks for the advice. I can see that a lot of making both players have fun is going to be getting them to be specialized in different things and having me change up scenarios.

I think what I might do is give the sorcerers 0 spells per day (so 1 with bonus) and 1 spell known at odd levels for the 'missing' level. I just really want to avoid that point at 3rd level where the wizard has 2cd level spells and the sorcerer doesn't. My sorcerer player might get a bit frustrated at that point.

[Dekalinder]

Sorcer are quadratic mages. They suck (in comparison) till 10, but are even more powerfull after.

[Blave]

It's your call. I still think there's no reason to do that. A sorcerer player should know beforehand what he's going to get and when he'll get it. There's a reason why sorcerers get their spells a level later since 3.0. Spontaneous casting is powerful if done right. Not as powerful a perfectly prepared wizard. But then again: Nothing beats a perfectly prepared wizard.

Question is: How often is a Wizard prepared perfectly?

More food for thought:
What if the other player was not a wizard but a cleric or druid?

[LazarX]

Thaago wrote:

Thanks for the advice. I can see that a lot of making both players have fun is going to be getting them to be specialized in different things and having me change up scenarios.

I think what I might do is give the sorcerers 0 spells per day (so 1 with bonus) and 1 spell known at odd levels for the 'missing' level. I just really want to avoid that point at 3rd level where the wizard has 2cd level spells and the sorcerer doesn't. My sorcerer player might get a bit frustrated at that point.

Try to resist doing this. If the sorcerer player is playing well, he won't be regretting the extra level he is waitng for 2nd level spells. He needs to in turn, let go of the idea that a sorcerer is simply a spontaneous variant of wizard.