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The 75gp price tag for the ioun torch is undoubtedly an error as it is cheaper than an everburning torch, yet better in every conceivable way.
The everburning torch costs 110gp because you need to pay someone to cast continual flame for you, as well as purchase the expensive material component. The ioun torch is the exact same item, but the spell is cast on floating rock instead, yet for some reason, they didn't charge you the spellcasting fee--just the component costs.
Therefore, I posit that the actual price of the ioun torch, should you obtain it the same way you would an everburning torch, is 135gp.
Everburning Torch:
00gp - Stick
50gp - Material Component Cost
60gp - Spellcaster cost (caster level 3 x spell level 2 x 10gp)
Ioun Torch:
25gp - Burnt out ioun stone
50gp - Material Component Cost
Is this the case? Should the ioun torch cost more (or perhaps the everburning torch less)?
Please show that FAQ button some love so we can get the matter clarified.
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Huh.
Specific spell counters don't come up often, so I am a bit hazy on the rules.
Anyways, Light is a Cantrip, which one can cast over and over.
Basically, you are paying for a marble that floats around your head, that you can avoid casting light on every 10 minutes or so.
Real low powered, but still convenient.
Price seems fine to me.
That all seems off-topic to me.
You are only crafting the "burned out" ioun stone which is valued at 25 gp, plus the material component cost for casting continual flame. Making its price 75 gp, and the cost 62.5 gp.
It's a wondrous item, so with craft wondrous item feat it can be made without actually casting the spell on the item.
Without the feat it should still be possible to create an ioun torch by casting continual flame on a found or purchased burned out ioun stone.
The price and cost follows the same formula as ability tomes and manuals using wish spells. Full material cost(bonus times 25000) plus half base. (even if you don't know wish or are using miracle).
So they actually used a different pricing method than that of the everburning torch?
Yep, one for buying spell casting services, another for magic item pricing...
I don't know if it's wrong.
Ioun stones aren't just lying about. At least not when I'm in charge. If it should be more expensive, then make it more expensive.
It's just a torch.
I am really, not getting why there would be any need to change anything.
Can there be no cheap magic items?
Are you trying to distort the meaning of my words in the hopes of demonizing me? I like to think people are smart enough to not fall for that.
I ask you, what is wrong with trying to bring internal consistency to the rules? It doesn't make any sense for an ioun torch to be cheaper than an everburning torch.
Oh, and it is still cheap even with the new price.
Shield Sconce holds a everburning torch.
Really, it's a torch.
Seems way too small a deal to make a stink about.
Like, crazy weird, and way nitpicky.
Who stresses about this?
Who's making a stink? I'm just trying to bring internal consistency to the rules. What's so stinky about that?
To you perhaps.
I like internal consistency in a game's rules.
And it isn't a big deal (it's not going to break anyone's game any time soon), but if it can be fixed, why not get it fixed? I'm as confused at your seeming opposition to the idea as I'm sure you are that I brought it up at all.
Assuming you can cast light.
And if it was always their intent for it to be cheaper, as you say, then that is something they could clarify for us.
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Okay, so you nab a Dull Gray Stone Ioun Stone, for 25gp, cast Light on it.
Same basic effect.
No need for the stone at all.
You get a hat with a brim and cast light on the top of the hat. Your eyes are shaded, the light is stationary instead of a stone orbiting you and casting moving shadow and you don't need to buy anything that is not already part of your equipment.If you wear a helmet you can do the same. That is what cavers and miners use.
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I agree with RD, the price is strange. Hardly the first item I would buy with a spellcaster, but not a bad item.
The rules should not be consistent, because if you start make them consistent then you have to do it with everything and then it goes overboard. :p Anyways the pricing rules are guidelines so it is still within the rules even when it is not consistent.
The 75gp price tag for the ioun torch is undoubtedly an error as it is cheaper than an everburning torch, yet better in every conceivable way.
I clicked FAQ, but I would sware this specific subject has been brought up before and hashed over.
Either way, I have no issue with the price as is or if it goes up to a higher number as you suggest. Seems a very minor issue at best.
nothing need to be changed here
Nothing to see move along!
While it remains a small issue, the Ioun Torch actually got an additional comparative benefit.
As a magic item, a dispel magic is only going to suppress it, while the Continual Flame on a Everburning torch is going to be dispelled.
A mentionable detail however, is that the Ioun torch has a requirement of CL 12. If we were to include the price for the spellcasting service that would be an additional 240.
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I didn't realize that spell caster's had such a over abundance of burnt ioun stones lying around so they could mass produce ioun torches...and pass the cost savings on to YOU!!!
Seriously, ioun torches are WAY too good for 75gp. If you had to create one from scratch (ie without a burnt out stone), the cost is something like 12K. In my game, when an ioun stone burns out, it drops lifelessly to the ground. This is because ioun torches they are too cheesy.
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I do agree with RD that there is a pricing mechanics problem here. He did an excellent job of breaking down how they got that price and exactly why it costs what it does. Yes, it is only 35 gold. In the grand scheme of an adventuring career that is nothing. The whole FAQ request is about getting a consistent price for something that does the same thing, only better.
FAQ'd
I don't think any of the books say anything about this, but as Diego Rossi mentioned, the stone orbits your head. Well, the books DO say that, but not the consequences. In darkness, you should be casting a shadow opposing the stone. That seems like it would be seriously annoying. Not to mention that once per orbit, it is in front of your face, and even assuming it's at forehead level, it shines light almost directly into your eyes.
The price is fine. Er, rephrase: it can be considered to be fine. Why? A secret cult of disgruntled archon-blooded aasimar are churning out these mysterious magic items and unleashing them upon the world. Maybe to disrupt the economy? Who can say.
I'd eliminate the ioun torch, then change the everburning torch to be a lapel pin, or something.
mmm, so i can have more by spending less. No wonder you got lynced by an angry mob of outraged players for bringing this up.
I don't think the mispricing of a single item(by less than a hundred go no less) is big deal. Loads of errors in other books and other things the staff could work on. Not worth the FAQ imo, but hey good luck I guess.
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THat is getting into some extreme detail for lighting effects. Most players GM's I have encountered treat magical light a little different. A good example is a light bearing sword. If magical light worked as normal light, a light bearing sword, or flaming sword for that matter would cause more problems than benefits, visually. Most players and GM's I have played with take magical light as an area effect, thus eliminating the "blinding source point" effectively providing light in the area listed, although the magic eminates from a point, the light is treated as an area effect. Perhaps I am wrong in this interpretation, but if not, a light spell should impose a to hit penalty in most situations (as the group would be effectively blind if the light were in front of them). A sword bearing light would be nearly impossible to use, as it would effectively blind the user to anything that the sword was in front of. I can see (no pun intended) the difference for non-magical light, but the sake of game play magical light should be treated differently. Unless of course the spell/ability allows for specific effects, like say "Blinding Flash".I don't think any of the books say anything about this, but as Diego Rossi mentioned, the stone orbits your head. Well, the books DO say that, but not the consequences. In darkness, you should be casting a shadow opposing the stone. That seems like it would be seriously annoying. Not to mention that once per orbit, it is in front of your face, and even assuming it's at forehead level, it shines light almost directly into your eyes.
The price is fine. Er, rephrase: it can be considered to be fine. Why? A secret cult of disgruntled archon-blooded aasimar are churning out these mysterious magic items and unleashing them upon the world. Maybe to disrupt the economy? Who can say.
I'd eliminate the ioun torch, then change the everburning torch to be a lapel pin, or something.
In older editions light bringing sword had a small radius of illumination. The blinding effect would have been not worse than moving around with a candle in front of you.
On the other hand, flaying the weapon around and sticking it in the body of enemies would have a horrible effect on the level of illumination.The best mobile source of illumination that I recall from 2nd edition was a spell that enchanted a glass globe that floated behind and over you (you could somewhat control at which distance) emitting the equivalent of a light spell.
Another good source is the light as an headlamp option.
Light or continual flame on the outside of a shield isn't so good (but it can be very annoying for the enemy).
Luckily the game don't go on this level of detail, so this kind of problems don't really exist in game play.
We assume that our character will use their light sources in the best way possible, even if we don't exactly know what it will be.
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I can't believe this is a thread, and I can't believe how anybody would be looking through the costs of magic items and have this stand out to them.
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
And yet you took the time to type a reply. You could have spent those 30 seconds looking for a new planet to live on and saved us having to read your pointless snark.
THat is getting into some extreme detail for lighting effects. Most players GM's I have encountered treat magical light a little different. A good example is a light bearing sword. If magical light worked as normal light, a light bearing sword, or flaming sword for that matter would cause more problems than benefits, visually. Most players and GM's I have played with take magical light as an area effect, thus eliminating the "blinding source point" effectively providing light in the area listed, although the magic eminates from a point, the light is treated as an area effect. Perhaps I am wrong in this interpretation, but if not, a light spell should impose a to hit penalty in most situations (as the group would be effectively blind if the light were in front of them). A sword bearing light would be nearly impossible to use, as it would effectively blind the user to anything that the sword was in front of. I can see (no pun intended) the difference for non-magical light, but the sake of game play magical light should be treated differently. Unless of course the spell/ability allows for specific effects, like say "Blinding Flash".
I'm kind of being a little ridiculous on purpose. Still, it's one of those weird things when you think about it. I don't think there should be rules concerning it, but thematically, a light source orbiting my head would totally bug the hell out of me. Ultimately, it's best to ignore it and assume you get a radius of light, but once you start thinking "what would this thing be like", it gets really weird.
Frankly it's something that's bugged me too. FAQ'ed.
If it is true that the ioun torch is a permanent magical item created by Craft Wondrous Item, then it should probably cost MORE than the 135gp that I initially posited.
Not too much more than that though, don't want to get too crazy with it. (I'm of the opinion that the 6,000gp the item creation rules indicate it should be is a wee bit too much--probably more like 1,000gp at the absolute most.)
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If it is true that the ioun torch is a permanent magical item created by Craft Wondrous Item, then it should probably cost MORE than the 135gp that I initially posited.
Not too much more than that though, don't want to get too crazy with it. (I'm of the opinion that the 6,000gp the item creation rules indicate it should be is a wee bit too much--probably more like 1,000gp at the absolute most.)
I would price it, at most, as a magic item based on the light cantrip, so 1.500 gp. And even that is a bit high, 750 gp seem more appropriate.
I think that a version of the floating light globe has been published in one of the Pathfinder supplements, but I don't recall where (I am not speaking of dancing lights, it is a stronger light effect and has a higher spell level and a longer duration).
It should cost no more than the cost of a dull grey stone plus the cost to have a spellcaster cast continual flame on it. If it costs any more than that, people would simply never buy it, choosing instead to buy a dull grey ioun stone and pay for spellcasting services to save gold.
That's true I suppose, though it would never be dispelled.
(Not like anyone would ever target it anyways.)
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Actually, from the description "this is a burned out ioun stone that has had continual light cast upon it" I thought that was what it was:
In otherwords:
Everburning torch = Crafted Magical Item. Cannot Be Dispelled.
Ioun Torch = Ioun stone with Continual Light Cast on it. May be dispelled. Do not take if you are fighting Teiflings, Derros, etc.
I thought it was the reverse.
AVAILABILITY, people.
That item isn't at every general store. Give it 1% and roll it before the player's eyes. If it comes up, tell him the merchant wants 135 for it; if he rolls a good diplomacy give him list price.
Costs don't have to be static.
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Actually, from the description "this is a burned out ioun stone that has had continual light cast upon it" I thought that was what it was:
In otherwords:
Everburning torch = Crafted Magical Item. Cannot Be Dispelled.
Ioun Torch = Ioun stone with Continual Light Cast on it. May be dispelled. Do not take if you are fighting Teiflings, Derros, etc.
An everburning torch is not a crafted magic item, it is a stick with continual flame cast upon it.
That's why it's in the equipment section, not the magic item section.
Stick (free) + spellcasting service:CL x SL x 10 (2x3x10) 60gp + expensive material component:ruby (50) + 110gp.
The Ioun torch is identical, except instead of being cast on a stick it's cast on a burned-out Ioun stone. It should cost 110gp+25gp=135gp. Why it doesn't is a mystery.