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According to the rules, Mythic Characters can:
"draw upon a wellspring of power to accomplish amazing deeds and cheat fate. This power is used by a number of different abilities. Each day, you can expend an amount of Mythic power equal to 3 plus double your Mythic tier. This amount is your maximum amount of Mythic power. If an ability allows you to regain uses of your Mythic power, you can never have more than this amount."
Now, I've run the playtest and I thought 3+(#Tier) power per day was plenty cool already.
Then I started re-reading this bit. Nowhere does it say that you automatically gain your full complement of Mythic power points every day.
Hm. Could it be so?
I looked into similar 'refresh points'-type powers in the rules. Grit points, spells per day,... you name it. They all have the specific instruction to '(re)gain X at time Y'.
Furthermore, there's the mechanic of Mythic boons to regain Mythic power uses and certain Mythic artifacts that can leech Mythic power with a succesful hit 1-5 times a day.
Interpreting the Mythic power refresh as automatic, these rules seem pretty trivial to me. In the campaign I'm running, I had trouble depleting the player's arsenal of power points each day, which stood at a mere 4. Sure, you can always chuck in more encounters, but that would have seemed contrived.
So anyway, this got me thinking. Have we been playing this the wrong way? Regardless, I believe the wording here should be adapted to explicitly state the way Mythic Power is refreshed, one way or the other.
The words "Each day you can expend ....." is pretty clear to me. The fact that you can regain mythic power via other means is covered below that, to indicate that you can never regain more than your maximum.
That's exactly how I read it in the first place, but I've learned from the messageboards that sometimes, a rule's true meaning is not that obvious...
The main things that caused me to suspect that MP might need to be 'won' instead of gained automatically are as I mentioned earlier the boons and artifacts. If MP points are easily regained by a day's rest, I can't imagine players going for these - it makes that which would seem heroic and legendary rather trivial.
The rule could mean that no matter how many MP you amass, you have a maximum to spend per day - though I agree that is a bit of a stretch...
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Well once recuperation becomes available, you could have adventures where the players never get those 8 hours of rest. So you could have dozens of encounters in a single day (or 24 hours like ...well the tv show 24).
And it makes sense to add some items/abilities to allow the players to regain their mythic power, to buff them before they really hard challenges.
I still think that ambrosia might be a little cheap, but I will have to wait and see what my placers will do.
Actually, I am considering to forbid metamagic feats in combination with mythic spells, or at least the metamagic rods. The little sidebar in the feats chapter 62 gave me the idea, that this might actually be the intention.
Well once recuperation becomes available, you could have adventures where the players never get those 8 hours of rest.
That brings up another interesting point, actually... Do Mythic PCs need rest to recover Mythic Power? The rules make no mention of any requirements here.
I could run them through non-stop gauntlets of terror 24/7, yes - but I believe that will become tedious for both them and me very fast. It's mentioned somewhere in the book that in order to provoke the sense of 'Mythic' the GM should include plenty of common situations to make the Mythic components really stand out.
This bit of design ethos is another thing which makes me suspect Mythic Power points might be intended to be rarer than I assumed at first.
Haven't looked into the Metamagic combo yet, but your veto seems to hold water from what I remember.
Another thing that seems to me to point in the direction of 'earned' MP... Say you're playing a 1st level Fighter with 2 Tiers in Guardian.
According to the rules, you are considered a Level 2 character (Class levels + half your Tiers). That equals a CR 1 encounter, appropriate (average) for a party of 4 Level 1 characters.
Still with me? OK.
Consider this NPC Guardian has the Absorb Blow Mythic ability (and some more stuff as well, of course) and an automatic FULL complement of 7 Mythic Power every day...
Your level 1 party is now facing one dude with effectively 80+ hit points (ignore 10hp 7/day + max hit die + CON, whatever that is)
...and that's an average encounter? Shy'a, right.
As it's explained in the book that the point of Mythic is NOT to run Mythic vs Mythic campaigns, this conclusion - to me - grants credence to the idea that Mythic Power points ought to be intended as rare rewards, not automatic daily gains.
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As it's explained in the book that the point of Mythic is NOT to run Mythic vs Mythic campaigns, this conclusion - to me - grants credence to the idea that Mythic Power points ought to be intended as rare rewards, not automatic daily gains.
Your example provides nothing except evidence that the system can be abused to generate encounters of inappropriate difficulty.
Much like templates.
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Well once recuperation becomes available, you could have adventures where the players never get those 8 hours of rest.That brings up another interesting point, actually... Do Mythic PCs need rest to recover Mythic Power? The rules make no mention of any requirements here.
I could run them through non-stop gauntlets of terror 24/7, yes - but I believe that will become tedious for both them and me very fast. It's mentioned somewhere in the book that in order to provoke the sense of 'Mythic' the GM should include plenty of common situations to make the Mythic components really stand out.
This bit of design ethos is another thing which makes me suspect Mythic Power points might be intended to be rarer than I assumed at first.
Haven't looked into the Metamagic combo yet, but your veto seems to hold water from what I remember.
From MA
Legendary Hero (Su): At 10th tier, you have reached theheight of mortal power. You regain uses of your mythic
power at the rate of one use per hour, in addition to
completely refreshing your uses each day.
I think that could prove , that they are supposed to refresh each day. It seems, they had to add this as a reminder, that regaining a mythic power (I just decided to use MP as for it in future) per hour does not replace the normal refreshing.
Ambrosia:
Eating this food
takes 1 minute, and when the meal is done, the consumer
regains all her uses of mythic power for the day.
That refers to MP per day too, I haven't found a source that the heroes have to rest to regain their MP, but it could just be like spell like abilities (which do not require rest IRRC)
Mythic powers refresh after 8 hours of rest as explicitly stated in the book. As a GM you are free to ignore that, but please do not assume that that is what the rules say.
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Another thing that seems to me to point in the direction of 'earned' MP... Say you're playing a 1st level Fighter with 2 Tiers in Guardian.
According to the rules, you are considered a Level 2 character (Class levels + half your Tiers). That equals a CR 1 encounter, appropriate (average) for a party of 4 Level 1 characters.
Still with me? OK.
Consider this NPC Guardian has the Absorb Blow Mythic ability (and some more stuff as well, of course) and an automatic FULL complement of 7 Mythic Power every day...
Your level 1 party is now facing one dude with effectively 80+ hit points (ignore 10hp 7/day + max hit die + CON, whatever that is)
...and that's an average encounter? Shy'a, right.
As it's explained in the book that the point of Mythic is NOT to run Mythic vs Mythic campaigns, this conclusion - to me - grants credence to the idea that Mythic Power points ought to be intended as rare rewards, not automatic daily gains.
I don't really see a problem here, while the idea to give a lower number of player characters some mythic levels to help them through an adventure path is still in limbo, adding some mythic powers into a nonmythic game should work.
Of course the monster creation guidelines are only guidelines, and I dare say, that if you add only half as many mythic tiers or ranks to a creature as he has hd/CR the results will be far more reasonable.
Your example provides nothing except evidence that the system can be abused to generate encounters of inappropriate difficulty.Much like templates.
True, Artanthos. But this is pretty much standard fare. I'm hardly TRYING to stage a difficult encounter here. It looks like sloppy design to me.
From MA
Legendary Hero (Su): At 10th tier, you have reached the
height of mortal power. You regain uses of your mythic
power at the rate of one use per hour, in addition to
completely refreshing your uses each day.I think that could prove , that they are supposed to refresh each day. It seems, they had to add this as a reminder, that regaining a mythic power (I just decided to use MP as for it in future) per hour does not replace the normal refreshing.
Ambrosia:
Eating this food
takes 1 minute, and when the meal is done, the consumer
regains all her uses of mythic power for the day.That refers to MP per day too, I haven't found a source that the heroes have to rest to regain their MP, but it could just be like spell like abilities (which do not require rest IRRC)
Thanks for clarifying Sebastian - that does indeed prove to me that, by the book, PC's regain their full allotment of Mythic Power on a daily basis.
That leaves me wondering if the proposed CR system is not terribly, horribly wrong and Mythic Adventures has a far narrower scope than advertised (You either make it all Mythic and it works, or you don't, and it doesn't. Of course, if everyone is special, no-one is :-))
Still, that's a discussion to be had elsewhere.
Could you be so kind, and give us the page please?Mythic powers refresh after 8 hours of rest as explicitly stated in the book. As a GM you are free to ignore that, but please do not assume that that is what the rules say.
Page 12
Myth Power (Su):Mythic characters can draw upon a wellspring of power to accomplish amazing deeds and cheat fate. This power is used by a number of different abilities. Each day, you can expand an amount power equal to 3 plus double your mythic tier (5/day at 1st tier, 7/day at 2nd, etc.). This amount is your maximum amount of mythic power. It an ability allows you to regain mythic uses of your mythic power, you can never have more than this amount.
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Could you be so kind, and give us the page please?Mythic powers refresh after 8 hours of rest as explicitly stated in the book. As a GM you are free to ignore that, but please do not assume that that is what the rules say.
Page 12
Myth Power (Su):Mythic characters can draw upon a wellspring of power to accomplish amazing deeds and cheat fate. This power is used by a number of different abilities. Each day, you can expand an amount power equal to 3 plus double your mythic tier (5/day at 1st tier, 7/day at 2nd, etc.). This amount is your maximum amount of mythic power. It an ability allows you to regain mythic uses of your mythic power, you can never have more than this amount.
Thank you, we have already come to the conclusion that they refresh every day, what is still unclear, is if you actually have to rest, or if you get a new set of points every 24 hours on the clock. In might not matter in many circumstances, but could make a difference in others.
I had a similar thought, but can you name any per day power that is not refreshed by resting?
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I had a similar thought, but can you name any per day power that is not refreshed by resting?
I think spell like abilities. Searching for the word resting ond d20pfsrd brought me to this:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/glossary#TOC-Rest
Magic: For classes that prepare arcane spells, rest is extremely important. If rest is interrupted, each interruption adds 1 hour to the total amount of time the character has to rest and the character must have at least 1 hour of uninterrupted rest immediately prior to preparing spells. If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, he still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells.
Some spellcasting classes, particularly divine spellcasting classes such as clerics, druids, inquisitors (and others), do not need to rest to regain spells but instead regain spells at a set time each day regardless of rest.