Word Casting and Balance


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Perhaps this has already been discussed, but if it has, I haven't been able to find it. Even though UM's Word Casting system is less powerful than the standard casting system, would implementing it universally in a game bring casters closer to martials in power level?


Accelerate. Spell gives the target an extra move action. For the party fighter this spell is better than haste.

WOP is not less powerful than normal casting. But it is powerful in different ways.


What i found when one player went with a WoP character was that he did blasting really well. WoP seems to remove alto of spells form the game that cant easily be handld with the mix and max system of the setup. So basically making it a universal system for the game puts them at the power level of 'blaster' caster charactrs. wherever youf eel that lies.


I actually mentioned this in one of the caster vs. martial threads, but I don't believe anyone responded.

Wordcasting is on the whole less powerful because it takes out many of the highly specific effects that allow abuse and enable casters to step on the toes of other classes.

Wordcasters do have a few very powerful effects available to them. Accelerate was already mentioned. They make good blasters, with stuff like True Fire. Free access to elemental words allow them to adjust more effectively to enemies' resistances. They have a word that gives energy immunity. From what I can tell, their resurrection spells do not have a cost. In fact, I see no material components listed. A 9th level cleric wordspell can resurrect up to 20 people with a standard action. Meta words allow effects to target alternate saving throws, meaning spells can be tailored to kill whatever happens to be standing in front of you. As far as I can tell, wordspells cannot be quickened. However, wordcasters get a pool of free meta word uses every day.

It's a lot of tit for tat, but the specific effects going away would balance out a game a fair bit.


Standard action summons is HUGE.

Pandora's box is right, there is no expensive material components for any word spell.

Liberty's Edge

At low levels, word casters are significantly weaker than standard casters. They do, however, eventually come close in power, if not necessarily in flexibility. (Which is ironic, since the word spells are significantly more flexible in and of themselves.) A couple 3pp exist for words of power, but even with those words of power doesn't come close to being able to duplicate the vast array of spell effects standard casting can come up with.

One comment in regards to Pandora's comment about word spells being unable to be quickened, that is incorrect. Word spells are still spells and still follow all the rules for such, including being able to be effected by metamagic effects like quicken.


I suspect wordspells improve sorcerer/wizard balance and maybe do a little for oracle/cleric balance, but they're not a fix for caster/martial balance.

Liberty's Edge

Atarlost wrote:
I suspect wordspells improve sorcerer/wizard balance and maybe do a little for oracle/cleric balance, but they're not a fix for caster/martial balance.

Agreed. 9th level word spells are still 9th level spells.


ShadowcatX wrote:
A couple 3pp exist for words of power

Could you point to a couple of these, perhaps? Thanks! =)

Liberty's Edge

Both from JBE:

Book of Magic Energy Words Revisited

10 Undead Spell Words

The book of deep magic (which was a kickstarter) will have some as well when it is released.


ShadowcatX wrote:

Both from JBE:

Book of Magic Energy Words Revisited

10 Undead Spell Words

The book of deep magic (which was a kickstarter) will have some as well when it is released.

Thank you. Thank you very much!

Liberty's Edge

It is my pleasure. Sadly, those are the only words products JBE is producing. Another 3pp was considering doing a words of power supplement, but threw his hands up in frustration with everything and walked away from it so as far as I know deep magic will be the third ever support for it.


WoP gets a 1d4 15ft cone of fire damage as a cantrip.

I think WoP is better at low low levels.


ShadowcatX wrote:
One comment in regards to Pandora's comment about word spells being unable to be quickened, that is incorrect. Word spells are still spells and still follow all the rules for such, including being able to be effected by metamagic effects like quicken.

Except wordcasting has it's own system for metamagic, and many of the meta words duplicate existing metamagic feats. I assumed that meant only meta words applied to wordspells, but I don't believe that topic has actually received official treatment anywhere.

Liberty's Edge

Pandora's wrote:
ShadowcatX wrote:
One comment in regards to Pandora's comment about word spells being unable to be quickened, that is incorrect. Word spells are still spells and still follow all the rules for such, including being able to be effected by metamagic effects like quicken.
Except wordcasting has it's own system for metamagic, and many of the meta words duplicate existing metamagic feats. I assumed that meant only meta words applied to wordspells, but I don't believe that topic has actually received official treatment anywhere.

It has metawords, but no where is it ever said that they can't use metamagic. Since wordspells fit all the requirements of being used with metamagic they can be absent text stating otherwise. Metawords are just freebies that helps bring wordcasters closer to the power level of standard casters.

Also:

Quote:
Metamagic feats, such as Empower Spell and Quicken Spell, work on wordspells just like they would on ordinary spells. The increase to the spell’s level means that the spell uses up a higher-level spell slot, but retains the word arrangement of the affected spell. For example, a 3rd-level wordspell modified by the Empower Spell feat would use up a 5th-level spell slot, but could not contain words with a level higher than 3rd.

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