...what did oxen ever do to you?...
#Zealot
* I'm confused about the Zealot's Divine Fury. It seems to need a specific foe, and provides bonuses, but do the bonuses apply universally? It kinda doesn't make sense - she needs to be pointed at a fury-trippable foe, then voila! - she suddenly rages - her Strength is buffed but her Con and hp improve against all attacks/effects no matter the source? Ok, I understand she can only attack the designated foe or the fury ends but her temp hps help her shrug off everybody? Hmm. I guess she's so furious she DOES shrug off everybody else. Just seems artificial somehow. Like there's a disconnect between control/losing control and zealotry/overzealousness.I think I just really don't like the whole alignment thing. Both as a prerequisite for the fury to trip and as a focus generally. Maybe that's why I don't play Paladins. I just don't get that they can't smite oxen, doors or tables. Absolutely destroys the concept for me.
* I guess I really don't have anything else to say about this. Seems elegant and simple. ;)
* Woah. Hang on. Spells as well? I don't gel with this concept at all. Still, Orthos really likes it, and I'm full of biases...
I guess the question is, do we want to have an alignment restriction tied to Divine Fury, or simply make it usable against any single foe that opposes her god's alignment on either axis. Thus, a zealot with a god of lawful good could use Divine Fury against any target that is either chaotic, evil, or both. Broadens the the scope, but keeps it narrow enough. The other questions is, (@Kyras) is this supposed to have an alignment restriction as an MCA (eg. Any nonlawful, etc.), or no alignment restriction?
I personally think that no restriction is good for this one, sort of like the Divine Exemplar had no alignment restriction.
Here's some changes.
Detect Alignment (Sp): At will, a zealot can use detect chaos, detect evil, detect good, or detect law. She can only use one of these at any given time. This ability otherwise functions as and replaces detect evil.
Divine Fury (Su): Once per day, a zealot can call upon her deity to grant her greater strength, ferocity, and battle prowess to carry out her god’s divine will. As a swift action, the zealot chooses one target within sight. If this target has an alignment that is in opposition to that of her deity’s on either the chaos/lawful or evil/good axis (or both), the zealot can enter a divine fury as a free action. While in divine fury, a zealot gains a +4 morale bonus to her Strength and Constitution, but she takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class. For example, a zealot with a deity that has a Chaotic Good alignment can enter a divine fury if her target is lawful, evil, or lawful evil. The increase to Constitution grants the zealot 2 hit points per Hit Dice, but these disappear when the divine fury ends and are not lost first like temporary hit points. While in a divine fury, a zealot cannot cast spells, nor can she use any Charisma–, Dexterity–, or Intelligence–based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or ability that requires patience or concentration.
Should the zealot be hampered or intercepted by another creature as she attempts to engage her target, she may attack the creatures for the sole purpose of getting them out of her path. Once the zealot has engaged the target directly, if she attacks anyone other than her target or if her target is not of the right alignment, the divine fury ends and is wasted. Regardless of the target, attacks made using divine fury automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess. If a zealot falls unconscious, her divine fury immediately ends, placing her in peril of death.
A zealot can end her divine fury as a free action and is fatigued after the fury for 2 rounds per Hit Dice of the target. A zealot cannot enter a new divine fury while fatigued or exhausted but can otherwise enter divine fury multiple times during a single encounter or combat.
The divine fury effect remains until the target of the fury is dead or until the end of combat, whichever comes first. At 4th level, and at every three levels thereafter, the zealot may use divine fury one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: Divine Fury, to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th level. This ability replaces smite evil.
The alignment stuff is really my favorite part of anti/paladins myself.
I think the "attacking anything that gets in your way" should be allowed, likewise for things that force your attention away, like Antagonize or stuff like that, but not things that are optional, like AoOs. Meaning a Zealot would have to forfeit AoOs against targets who aren't the focus of her fury.
I'm personally ambivalent about the spells. Can always replace them with some useful other abilities, like the spell-less archetype that already exists (whose name I can't recall, it's late) if you don't think they fit. (Wound that archetype stack with this one? If so might be best to leave them in just so someone could put those two together if the spells don't suit their fancy.)
Meaning a Zealot would have to forfeit AoOs against targets who aren't the focus of her fury.
A fantastic idea.
I'm personally ambivalent about the spells. Can always replace them with some useful other abilities.
My point exactly. Spells are extremely useful. But they don' fit my concept of this Zealot. Currently. Without flavor. I'm open to Longino's vision to have spells, but without spells? Moar kool zealoty powarz!!!!
* As for the alignment prereq for the Fury ability, I'm happy for consensus either way.
Zealot
Then I guess we must await Longino's flavor blurp, or a decision on the spells aspects.
Knight Errant
I should have this up for Raider tomorrow.
I think the "attacking anything that gets in your way" should be allowed, likewise for things that force your attention away, like Antagonize or stuff like that, but not things that are optional, like AoOs. Meaning a Zealot would have to forfeit AoOs against targets who aren't the focus of her fury.
I'm personally ambivalent about the spells. Can always replace them with some useful other abilities, like the spell-less archetype that already exists (whose name I can't recall, it's late) if you don't think they fit. (Wound that archetype stack with this one? If so might be best to leave them in just so someone could put those two together if the spells don't suit their fancy.)
these are both really good points maybe we can bump the number of furys and let them expend them to remove "obstacles" that are in the way
i don't know i see something like the lawful lich letting his minion get in the way and the zealot slaps the minion 15' into a wallUnstoppable Charge: while using her Divine Fury she may spend a use of her Divine Fury to charge her target, she may make any number of turns in this charge as long as its the shortest way to her target any non-ally creatures in the way she can make a free overrun attempt adding her cha bonus to her CMB. This ability does not proko a attack of opportunity as she moves or when confirming an overrun attempt
I don't think we need Unstoppable Charge, or to increase the number of fury per day.
But then again, perhaps we can have incorporate Unstoppable charge. THoughts? Anyone else think we can use it, or does the caveates in Divine Fury take care of things? Maybe we can throw it in at 2nd level? help fill that level a bit more. Maybe make it that she can make a free overrun attempt against any creature that gets in her way, in the process of engaging her target?
So this.
Unstoppable Advance(Ex): At 2nd level, as long as a zealot is taking the shortest path to the target of her divine fury, she can make a free overrun maneuver against any creature that obstructs or hinders her. She adds her Charisma modifier to her CMB and provokes no attacks of opportunity while making this overrun maneuver. This ability, rage powers, and damage reduction replace lay on hands and mercy.
Posting this here again for reference (a few word changes again).
Divine Fury (Su): Once per day, a zealot can call upon her deity to grant her greater strength, ferocity, and battle prowess to carry out her god’s divine will. As a swift action, the zealot chooses one target within sight. If this target has an alignment that is in opposition to that of her deity’s on either the chaos/lawful or evil/good axis (or both), the zealot can enter a divine fury as a free action. While in divine fury, a zealot gains a +4 morale bonus to her Strength and Constitution, but she takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class. For example, a zealot with a deity that has a Chaotic Good alignment can enter a divine fury if her target is lawful, evil, or lawful evil. The increase to Constitution grants the zealot 2 hit points per Hit Dice, but these disappear when the divine fury ends and are not lost first like temporary hit points. While in a divine fury, a zealot cannot cast spells, nor can she use any Charisma–, Dexterity–, or Intelligence–based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or ability that requires patience or concentration.
If the zealot is hindered in any way from engaging with her target, either by a creature or a situation that draws her attention away, she may attack the creature or deal with the situation for the sole purpose of removing those obstacles from her imminent path. However, the zealot must forfeit any attacks of opportunity granted to her against enemies that are not the target of her fury.
Once a zealot has engaged her target directly, if she attacks anyone other than her target or if her target is not of the right alignment, the divine fury ends and is wasted. Regardless of the target, attacks made using divine fury automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess. If a zealot falls unconscious, her divine fury immediately ends, placing her in peril of death.
A zealot can end her divine fury as a free action and is fatigued after the fury for 2 rounds per Hit Dice of the target. A zealot cannot enter a new divine fury while fatigued or exhausted but can otherwise enter divine fury multiple times during a single encounter or combat.
The divine fury effect remains until the target of the fury is dead or until the end of combat, whichever comes first. At 4th level, and at every three levels thereafter, the zealot may use divine fury one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: Divine Fury, to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th level. This ability replaces smite evil.
Here's Raider's redo of the Knight Errant
Knights errant never belong to an all-encompassing order, nor are they beholden to any particular lord liege. They are wanders at heart, who journey throughout the lands for the sole purpose of proving themselves against all forms of difficulties. Guided by the heart and drawn to whims of fancy, a knight errant may follow one who he considers great and noble, but he is ultimately answers only to himself, to those he has chosen to protect, and to his personal code of honor.
Primary Class: Cavalier.
Secondary Class: Bard.
Alignment: Any nonchaotic. Though evil knight errants are rare, they are few and far between.
Hit Dice: d10.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The knight errant may select three bard skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal cavalier class skills. The knight errant gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The knight errant is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, light, and medium), and with shields (except tower shields).
Bardic Knowledge (Ex): At 1st level, a knight errant gains the bard’s bardic knowledge ability. This ability, defy the enemy, noble heart, and glory and honor replaces the cavalier’s order.
Cunning Over Steel (Ex): A knight errant holds an unwavering conviction that intelligence, wit, and even luck can win over skill at arms. Once per day, a knight errant can roll twice on any one skill check of his choice, taking the highest result. The knight errant must indicate that he is using this ability before the roll is made. A knight errant can use this ability one additional time per day at 5th level and every five levels thereafter. This ability replaces tactician, greater tactician, and master tactician.
Glorious Challenge (Ex): Once per day, a knight errant can designate a single foe as the target of his glorious challenge. As a full-round action, a knight errant can designate one creature that he has knowledge of, but not necessarily seen, as his target. The knight errant gains a +1 morale bonus to all Diplomacy checks made to gather information about the target, all Perception checks made to locate the target, and all Survival checks made to track the target. Once the target has been sighted by the knight errant, he also gains a +2 morale bonus on all damage rolls and saving throws made against the target or its attacks. This bonus lasts for a number of rounds equal to the knight errant’s level.
At 7th level, if a knight errant declares glorious challenge against a target within 30 feet, he also gains a +2 morale bonus to all attack rolls made against the target. This is in addition to his +2 morale bonus on all damage rolls and saving throws made against the target.
At 13th level, a knight errant can designate multiple targets simultaneously, with each target expending one use of his glorious challenge.
At 19th level, whenever a knight errant uses his glorious challenge, he can declare his quest to be a grand epic, so long as the target of his challenge has a CR or Hit Dice of at least 2 higher than his knight errant level. By declaring a grand epic, the knight errant also grants his morale bonuses to a number of allies equal to his Charisma modifier.
The knight errant can use this ability once per day at 1st level, plus one additional time per day at 7th level and every six levels thereafter, to a maximum of four times per day at 19th level.
The glorious challenge remains in effect until the target is dead or unconscious or until the combat ends. This ability replaces challenge.
Defy the Enemy (Su): Starting at 2nd level, as a full-round action, a knight errant may speak aloud to bolster his allies against a single target with 30 feet of the knight errant. All allies within 30 feet of the knight errant gain a morale bonus on attack and damage rolls equal to 1/2 the knight errant’s level until the beginning of the knight errant’s next turn.
Inspire Fellowship (Ex): At 5th level, a knight errant has become a legend, inspiring others through his mere presence. At the start of each day, the knight errant may select a number of allies (not including himself or his mount) equal to his Charisma modifier. Each ally gains the ability to reroll any one skill check, attack roll, or saving throw. The ally must indicate that he is using this ability at the time of that the reroll is made.
An ally can benefit from this ability only once per day within a 24-hour period. If an ally rests for 8 hours, or the 24-hours have passed, the ability is lost until the knight errant grants the benefit again. This ability replaces banner.
Noble Heart (Ex): At 9th level, the heart of a knight errant is purer than it seems, whether they be good or evil. As an immediate action, a knight errant may reroll a failed Will save, and taking the best result of the two. A knight errant can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier.
Esoteric Training (Ex): Throughout his travels, a knight errant has gained an extraordinary breadth of knowledge, resulting in the development of a great many skills and unusual talents. Starting at 4th level, a knight errant can gain 4 free ranks in one skill that he has no ranks in, or gain a +2 competence bonus to a single skill that he already has ranks in. At 10th level and again at 16th level, a knight errant can gain either 4 additional free ranks in another skill he has no ranks in, or gain an additional +2 bonus to a skill that he has ranks in (including the skill chosen at 7th level or any subsequent level). This ability replaces challenge 2/day, challenge 4/day, and challenge 6/day.
For the Quest (Su): Starting at 6th level, a knight errant can use his force of will to increase his endurance and fortitude. Once per day, a knight errant can cast restoration (lesser) upon himself, using his knight errant levels as his caster level. As he gains levels, the knight errant gains access to additional spell effects.
At 12th level, a knight errant can cast remove disease or neutralize poison once per day, using his knight errant levels as his caster level. He can choose to use this ability to cast any of his for the quest spells on himself or a willing ally.
At 16th level, he can cast break enchantment once per day, using his knight errant levels as his caster level
This ability replaces bonus feats.
Greater Inspire Fellowship (Ex): At 14th level, an ally can reroll any one skill check, attack roll, or saving throw twice per day. This ability replaces greater banner.
Glory and Honor (Su): At 15th level, a knight errant is unshakable in his personal code of honor above all else. He gains immunity to all charm and compulsion spells and effects.
Table: Knight Errant
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Bardic knowledge, cunning over steel 1/day, glorious challenge 1/day, mount
2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Defy the enemy
3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Cavalier’s charge
4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Esoteric training, expert trainer
5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Cunning over steel 2/day, inspire fellowship
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +5 For the quest (restoration, lesser)
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +5 Glorious challenge 2/day
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +6 Noble heart
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +6 Cunning over steel 3/day
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +7 Esoteric training
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +7 Mighty charge
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +8 Demanding challenge, for the quest (remove disease or neutralize poison)
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +8 Cunning over steel 4/day, glorious challenge 3/day
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +9 Greater inspire fellowship
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +9 Glory and honor
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +10 Esoteric training
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Cunning over steel 5/day
18th +18/+8/+13/+3 +11 +6 +11 For the quest (break enchantment)
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Glorious challenge 4/day
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Supreme charge
Swaps
Order skill and challenge benefits = Bardic knowledge
Tactician/Greater tactician/Master Tactician = Cunning over steel
Order ability (2) = Defy the enemy
Order ability (8) = Noble heart
Order ability (15) = Glory and honor
Challenge 2/4/6/day = Esoteric training
Bonus feats = For the Quest
Banner = Inspire fellowship
Greater banner = Greater inspire fellowship
Just to explain some key concepts of the Knight Errant:
I decided to go full-blow out on the 'Knightly quest chaser' trope. There's a little Don Quixote, Galahad, and the sort in there.
Glorious Challenge especially represents this, and is a key ability for the class- providing the ability to simply name a quest, and get bonuses on that. Careful use of the ability, or at higher levels suddenly pulling off the 'Declare' use, can provide high, effective bonuses.
Meanwhile, rather than bardic music or spells or playing off the tactician feats, the Fellowship and For the Quest abilities more fit the common tropes and feats of skill and fortitude displayed by the knights in ye olde tales while allowing the party members to gain greatly off of the otherwise somewhat-centric knight.
Finally, Esoteric Training was... okay that was just 'I need a jack of all trades ability that isn't Jack of all Trades'. I think it works, though, and very much suits the concept of learning new things as he travels. There's a very large benefit when he selects new skills, but he can just stack up modifiers on his own.
Hope you all approve of this slightly more self-centered Knight Errant, who has thrown away the lute and telling-of-tales to be the inspiration himself. ;3
Raider, that's pretty damn awesome!
I'll have some feedback on any tweaks I can think of later.
I LIKE it!
#Zealot
Any further comments? I think Unstoppable ADvance adds to the MCA as a whole, and is restricted to while Divine Fury is in effect, narrowing its focus. Over all I think the MCA is well balanced, even with the spells. Here's the most updated version.
Also, as most MCA have two word names, any thoughts on what to call this one? Zealot should definitely be part of the name. Or shall we leave it at 1 word?
Primary Class: Paladin.
Secondary Class: Barbarian.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d10.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The zealot may select three barbarian skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal paladin class skills. The zealot gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 2 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The zealot is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with light and medium armor, and with shields (except tower shields).
Aura (Su): A zealot of a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful deity has a particularly powerful aura corresponding to the deity's alignment (see detect evil for details). The power of a zealot’s aura is equal to her zealot level. This ability otherwise functions as and replaces aura of good.
Detect Alignment (Sp): At will, a zealot can use detect chaos, detect evil, detect good, or detect law. She can only use one of these at any given time. This ability otherwise functions as and replaces detect evil.
Divine Fury (Su): Once per day, a zealot can call upon her deity to grant her greater strength, ferocity, and battle prowess to carry out her god’s divine will. As a swift action, the zealot chooses one target within sight. If this target has an alignment that is in opposition to that of her deity’s on either the chaos/lawful or evil/good axis (or both), the zealot can enter a divine fury as a free action. While in divine fury, a zealot gains a +4 morale bonus to her Strength and Constitution, but she takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class. For example, a zealot with a deity that has a Chaotic Good alignment can enter a divine fury if her target is lawful, evil, or lawful evil. The increase to Constitution grants the zealot 2 hit points per Hit Dice, but these disappear when the divine fury ends and are not lost first like temporary hit points. While in a divine fury, a zealot cannot cast spells, nor can she use any Charisma–, Dexterity–, or Intelligence–based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or ability that requires patience or concentration.
If the zealot is hindered in any way from engaging with her target, either by a creature or a situation that draws her attention away, she may attack the creature or deal with the situation for the sole purpose of removing those obstacles from her imminent path. However, the zealot must forfeit any attacks of opportunity granted to her against enemies that are not the target of her fury.
Once a zealot has engaged her target directly, if she attacks anyone other than her target or if her target is not of the right alignment, the divine fury ends and is wasted. Regardless of the target, attacks made using divine fury automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess. If a zealot falls unconscious, her divine fury immediately ends, placing her in peril of death.
A zealot can end her divine fury as a free action and is fatigued after the fury for 2 rounds per Hit Dice of the target. A zealot cannot enter a new divine fury while fatigued or exhausted but can otherwise enter divine fury multiple times during a single encounter or combat.
The divine fury effect remains until the target of the fury is dead or until the end of combat, whichever comes first. At 4th level, and at every three levels thereafter, the zealot may use divine fury one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: Divine Fury, to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th level. This ability replaces smite evil.
Unstoppable Advance (Ex): At 2nd level, as long as a zealot is taking the shortest path to the target of her divine fury, she can make a free overrun maneuver against any creature that obstructs or hinders her. She adds her Charisma modifier to her CMB and provokes no attacks of opportunity while making this overrun maneuver. This ability, rage powers, and damage reduction replace lay on hands and mercy.
Rage Power (Su): At 3rd level, a zealot gains a blessing while using divine fury and gains a rage power of her choice. She gains another rage power for every 6 levels of zealot attained after 3rd level. A zealot gains the benefits of rage powers only while using divine fury, and some of these powers require the zealot to take an action first. Unless otherwise noted, a zealot cannot select an individual power more than once.
Damage Reduction (Ex): At 6th level, a zealot gains damage reduction. Subtract 1 from the damage the zealot takes each time she is dealt damage from a weapon or a natural attack. At 12th level, and again at 18th level, this damage reduction rises by 1 point. Damage reduction can reduce damage to 0 but not below 0.
Greater Divine Fury (Ex): At 11th level, when a zealot enters divine fury, the morale bonus to her Strength and Constitution increases to +6. This ability replaces channel energy.
Aura of Zeal (Su): At 11th level, a Zealot can expend two uses of her divine fury ability to grant the ability to divine fury to all allies within 10 feet, using her bonuses. Allies must choose their targets for this divine fury ability by the start of the Zealot's next turn and the bonuses last for 1 minute. The targets chosen must be of the alignment that the Zealot chose at level 1. Using this ability is a free action. Creatures of the zealot’s opposition alignment cannot benefit from this ability.
Champion of Fury (Su): At 20th level, a zealot becomes a conduit for the fury of her god. Her DR increases to 5/—. Whenever she uses divine fury and successfully strikes a target of her divine fury that is an outsider of her opposition alignment, the outsider is also subject to a banishment, using her zealot level as the caster level (her weapon and holy symbol automatically count as objects that the subject hates). After the banishment effect and the damage from the attack is resolved, the divine fury immediately ends. In addition, while her divine fury is in effect, she is considered to have the Diehard feat, but does not become staggered until her divine fury ends.
Table: Zealot
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th
1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Aura, detect opposition alignment, divine fury 1/day — — — —
2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Divine grace, unstoppable charge — — — —
3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Aura of courage, divine health, rage power — — — —
4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Divine fury 2/day 0 — — —
5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Divine bond 1 — — —
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +5 Damage reduction 1/— 1 — — —
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +5 Divine fury 3/day 1 0 — —
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +6 Aura of resolve 1 1 — —
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +6 Rage power 2 1 — —
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +7 Divine fury 4/day 2 1 0 —
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +7 Aura of zeal, greater divine fury 2 1 1 —
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +8 Damage reduction 2/— 2 2 1 —
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +8 Divine fury 5/day 3 2 1 0
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +9 Aura of faith 3 2 1 1
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +9 Rage power 3 2 2 1
16th +16/+11/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Divine fury 6/day 3 3 2 1
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Aura of righteousness 4 3 2 1
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Damage reduction 3/— 4 3 2 2
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Divine fury 7/day 4 3 3 2
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Champion of fury 4 4 3 3
So, I'll let this one sit for the day and see if any other issues or concerns arise. Than we'll move on to the next one.
I don't personally think it needs a second word, Zealot's pretty straightforward, simple, and explanatory.
Here's the Queue.
Zealot – Pal/Bbn (Longino)*nearing completion
Arcane Assertor – Inq/Sor (Toaster)
Wu Xing Assassin – Nnj/Clr (Byrdology)
Secret Sect Knight - Cav/Inq (Bardess)
Light’s Shadow – Nnj/Pal (Kyras)
Barefoot Friar - Mnk/Inq (Bardess)
Chosen Apostle - Clr/Ora (Bardess)
Boastful Gallant - Brd/Cav (Bardess)
Lightspeed Master - Mnk/Mag (Bardess)
As you can see, Bardess has a load of new MCAs forth coming, so,if anyone has something to add to the queue, better get on it. We'll slot you inbetween all her MCAs. If not, Bardess, I hope you're ready fro the onslaught of MCA development that's about to descend upon you. :D
Maybe I'll need to come up with one?
Edit: I'm throwing the following into the ring. May or may not remove my Sam/Wiz, as we just did one, but it is different, so we'll see.
Tadashii-Kishi/Tadashii Samurai – Sam/Pal (Elghinn)
Shugendo Bushi – Sam/Clr (Elghinn)
Sheng-Chi Warrior – Sam/Wiz (Elghinn)
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Argh... Please don't let me alone! I have a job and a life, you know!
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Life...? I think I've heard of those, aren't they kinda antiquated?
Argh... Please don't let me alone! I have a job and a life, you know!
Well, you can always recind your MCA suggestions, you know. :D If you're too busy, that's fine, we realize real life gets in the way. Just let us know what you want to do. We're easy, you know that.
Hm. Raider, you certainly made your concept work, but it doesn't feel like a bard to me. Maybe I'm biased but I don't see how this redo is an improvement mechanically or multiclass-wise. It's a perfectly fine cavalier archetype but I'm starting to wonder if I'm missing the boat. What are we trying to accomplish here? Why are we reworking the same archetypes again and again? And why are we changing them so drastically rather than using iterative development to work on things like balance? Sorry to be a grouch but I don't get it.
*cough*tristam's monk bloodline*cough*
*cough*byrds ki mage (rename needed for ninja love)*cough*
both been passed to me, although if I can get byrd to come back...
#Knight Errant
I echo Flak's curiosity as to why we are reconceiving MCAs. I guess we sometimes have double ups so that's ok.
I think this is an ok concept. I don't get a questing knight feel from it, but that's me - maybe the 19th level ability of Glorious Challenge is questing...
* Cunning Over Steel only gives a reroll on skill checks, but Inspire Leadership gives allies a reroll on skills, attack rolls and saving throws. Is that intentional?
* I don't think Cunning Over Steel, even progressing, is worth nearly as much as the tactician suite.
* What is Defy the enemy - it is on the progression table but is not described.
*cough*tristam's monk bloodline*cough*
*cough*byrds ki mage (rename needed for ninja love)*cough*
both been passed to me, although if I can get byrd to come back...
And Byrd sayeth into him:
And Byrd sayeth into him:*cough*tristam's monk bloodline*cough*
*cough*byrds ki mage (rename needed for ninja love)*cough*
both been passed to me, although if I can get byrd to come back...
the irony of your phrasing is that your using it on a guy whose first name is Christ in greek.
#Knight Errant
I echo Flak's curiosity as to why we are reconceiving MCAs. I guess we sometimes have double ups so that's ok.
I think this is an ok concept. I don't get a questing knight feel from it, but that's me - maybe the 19th level ability of Glorious Challenge is questing...
* Cunning Over Steel only gives a reroll on skill checks, but Inspire Leadership gives allies a reroll on skills, attack rolls and saving throws. Is that intentional?
* I don't think Cunning Over Steel, even progressing, is worth nearly as much as the tactician suite.
* What is Defy the enemy - it is on the progression table but is not described.
Cunning Over Steel What about granting a +1 (or +2) to the reroll at 9th and a +2 (or +4) to the reroll at 17th?
Yes it's there, OSW. But once again I missed bolding the entry. This happend once berofe with you and me...:D It's right at the end of Glorious Challenge. HEre it is for easy reference.
Defy the Enemy (Su): Starting at 2nd level, as a full-round action, a knight errant may speak aloud to bolster his allies against a single target with 30 feet of the knight errant. All allies within 30 feet of the knight errant gain a morale bonus on attack and damage rolls equal to 1/2 the knight errant’s level until the beginning of the knight errant’s next turn.
I WILL try to keep it up... If I can. Ok, better beginning to work on something, right? :sigh: :)
Well with the new infusion of MCAs, I've tried to keep a consistent order, so everyone is getting a kick at the cat at about the same interval. Here's the updated queue, which greatly helps Bardess with her time constraints. :D
Zealot – Pal/Bbn (Longino)*soon to be completed
Arcane Assertor – Inq/Sor (Toaster)
Wu Xing Assassin – Nnj/Clr (Byrdology)
Secret Sect Knight - Cav/Inq (Bardess)
Light’s Shadow – Nnj/Pal (Kyras)
Tristam’s Monk Bloodline – (Toaster)
Compassionate Warrior – Sam/Pal (Elghinn)
Wondrous Detonator – Magus/Alchemist (Lindley Court)
Barefoot Friar - Mnk/Inq (Bardess)
Ki Mage - Nnj/Wiz (Toaster/Byrdology)
Bushi Hospitaler – Clr/Sam (Elghinn)
Chosen Apostle - Clr/Ora (Bardess)
Wu Jen Swordmaster – Wiz/Sam (Elghinn)
Boastful Gallant - Brd/Cav (Bardess)
Mystic/Blood Samurai - Sam/Sor (Elghinn)
Lightspeed Master - Mnk/Mag (Bardess)
"Name" - Sam/Rgr (Elghinn)
As you can see, you are the 3rd from the top, once Zealot is done, and you don't go again until #8, #11, #13, and #15. You can always pick and choose too, bardess, so don't stress about it. Plus, perhaps by the time we hit 11th, there may be many more MCAs to do too.
the irony of your phrasing is that your using it on a guy whose first name is Christ in greek.And Byrd sayeth into him:*cough*tristam's monk bloodline*cough*
*cough*byrds ki mage (rename needed for ninja love)*cough*
both been passed to me, although if I can get byrd to come back...
/off topic
(what happened after i read this post)look at profile.... reads "Christos"
thinks to self how does that sound .....chris-toos, chris-tus not that cant be it ...googling...... Χρήστος(O.o) toaster knows cthulhu..
no but really this cool it a cool name i am named after Texas hero and my brother after a Texas outlaw.
I am named after half a dozen of Catholic saints, from mystic visionaries to reformed courtesans. My favourite is the one who tore her way out of a dragon's belly using a cross. XD
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I was named after my great-grandparents. Both of them. (It was their surname). My middle name (which became my forum name's given name) is a name on the other side of my family that has been given to as many people in each generation as possible. It's the middle name of my father, grandfather, great-great-grandfather, and a multitude of my second-cousins (and further).
Humorously enough, my full name (all three), when put together, basically means "Steward of the Linden Trees' Castle Hall", which is funny because I pride myself in my love of nature and protective nature. I don't live in a castle, however. Hehehe.
OK, off the name tangent. Back to Knight Errant and Zealt. Poignant comments would be useful.
We're redoing MCA's because some are rather old and don't fit our current stylings or methods, and/or just haven't been looked at in aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaages. >:P
*flees, IRL keeping me busy*
@Knight Errant
love the flavor it seems more of the knights from the renaissance which is played up in art but somehow missed in the game other than the bard itself.
@Zealot
i had meet unstoppable charge to take the place of spells the class seemed strong enough to take the hit and not miss it if it was give a small ability
@Kyras re: Zealot
That's quite doable, thought I think if we lose spells, then we can probably give him 2 or 3 abilities (including Unstoppable Charge) for that swap, depending on the power of the abilites. So, what other ability(s) would make this MCA more awesome?
Unstoppable Charge + what?
Unstoppable charge + smash evil (?) a static bypass of evil types of DR kind of like the monk gets, but smitey like a paladin, and smashy like a barbie... Smash evil...
Wow, looks like people are really busy! :D Weekend slowdown...
You don't like smash evil?
Still thinking that one over Byrd. Not a bad idea. I just like to get lots of input before final decisions are made. :D
wow ya we kinda missed bypassing DR...... we might want to add that some where
Yeah, I was thinking of having it always on, but limiting it to evil/ cold iron or whatever really evil things have DR against. This would shore up a bit of the lack of punch from a standard paladin smite. Or you could have it come in effect rounds/lvl.
Just wanted to officially welcome Alfray Stryke and +5 Toaster (AKA Mythic +10 Toaster) as members of Multiclass Productions and Contributors on the Wiki. Welcome gentlemen, you've earned it! Keep up the good work, and hopefully we will be able to add a few new members and contributors to the group in the next few months.
Yay! Congrats!
thanks everybody, sorry about my absence but I have been busy with 2 or 3 3rd party projects. Don't worry though I am still here, watching like a majestic toaster upon the shelf. Will have a rough draft ready by tomorrow me thinks. As for the current to do, I don't have much to add at this stage, though I am intrigued by byrd's idea.
#Zealot
Why don't we add this to the Divine Fury.
"In addition, a zealot’s weapons can bypass damager reduction while he is in divine fury. At 7th level, the zealot’s weapons are treated as silver for the purpose of by passing damage reduction. At 10th level, his weapons are treated as cold iron for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction."
And change Aura of Faith to Aura of Devotion?
Aura of Devotion (Su): At 14th level, a zealot’s weapons are treated as aligned (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction, and is dependent upon the zealot’s aura. Any attack made against an enemy within 10 feet of her is treated as aligned for the purposes of overcoming Damage Reduction.
This all takes care of the various outsider DR bypassing requirements.
Would a Zealot who has multiple non-Neutral alignments have their weapons treated as aligned to both, or do they choose a single alignment of the pair as their "focus" (good vs evil/law vs chaos) and that affects all of their alignment-based class abilities?
#Zealot
Why don't we add this to the Divine Fury."In addition, a zealot’s weapons can bypass damager reduction while he is in divine fury. At 7th level, the zealot’s weapons are treated as silver for the purpose of by passing damage reduction. At 10th level, his weapons are treated as cold iron for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction."
And change Aura of Faith to Aura of Devotion?
Aura of Devotion (Su): At 14th level, a zealot’s weapons are treated as aligned (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction, and is dependent upon the zealot’s aura. Any attack made against an enemy within 10 feet of her is treated as aligned for the purposes of overcoming Damage Reduction.
This all takes care of the various outsider DR bypassing requirements.
The reason we shouldn't do that is because nowhere in the description does it use the term "smash evil"... I thought that was obvious. Jk, I like what you did.
that should round it out
Elghinn, please move the Barefoot Friar on top of my scheduled archetypes. I'm just beginning to work on it, so it should be ready when it's my turn. I also reversed the primary and secondary class, so it should be an Inq/Mnk as for now. ^^
#Zealot
@Orthos: It would be tied to their Aura (either a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful aura), sho if good, you'd have DR against evil, chaotic would be vs. law, opposed alignment to aura.
Will do Bardess.
so still working on it out but
Twice Chosen or Chosen Theurge (name up for debate)
p: Oracle
s: Sorcerer
Good luck! I tried that with my Dead Shaman, that in the end became a Sorcerer/Oracle.
#Barefoot Friar
This is going to be a monsterpiece, more so than the Wilderness Knight. It seems a real hybrid class more than a monk-like inquisitor... I foresee a vow-based ki pool, bardic lore, a virtue-imposing evangelist performance and something like 13-15 new "virtue" subdomains!
Whew!