I will take that and raise you one swashbuckler/bloodrageri know right....
swashbuckler alone would drive us all nuts im sure. in fact i would put money on a swashbuckler/sorcerer will be the frist
I call dibbs on the Shaman/Druid in advance, just in case I'm disappointed by the Shaman...
@Elghinn
My archetype's side material is still in fieri, but if needed I can post it. I would have liked to have a week more to refine it, but it's good this way too.
OK, back to the MCAs at hand guys.
So - Clockwork Mage; there's got to be more that needs to be fixed? I usually miss something big when doing a complex MCA like this one.
@Bardess: I'm giving Dustyboy until tomorrow to get it up. I've PMed too. Then, if it'll be you, and you can just post whateer you have and we'll work on it.
@Everyone: Yeah, ACG or whatever it it's called will throw us some curves, since essentially it's creating an MCA using a class + and MCA already. It'll get wild. But then, if they are different enough (like the Magus) there won't be too much issue.
btw where is that compiled google doc? I have a lot of MCAs that need to be added to the wiki.
I ended up converting each to a separate document for each MCA, and planned to upload them to the wiki, however due to work increasing and having to move, I've had limited free time recently - as it is my regular Pathfinder game I run has been on hold for about a month and a half. I'm still working on uploading the MCAs to the wiki though :)
oh ok then
I have a rough magus/rogue Crafty Magus if you want to take a look. But like my ATs usually are, this is 80% magus and 20% rogue, not the 60%/40% mix common here.
Might as well plug Apath, my Pathfinder page, including a LOT of archetypes.
Been sprucing up my Cleric/Rogue combo, simply named Rogue Cleric. Exited to see how it will fare here. I wonder tough; once time comes, in what format do I submit it, and how?
I've added your Mag/Rog to the queue Starfox. As for how to present them, exectly like I've presented any wiki MCAs or anyone else has presented their new ones. Looking over your two MCAs, I see we'll need to do some tweaking with BAB, saves, etc, to fir the guidelines we follow, but nothing major. Also, we'll check your swaps too.
Ah, that Mag/Rogue was intended more as inspiration for ecw1701 upthread. But then, (s)he looks more interested in a magus/bard on closer reading. Maybe keep this on the list after all. Remaking it from a 20/80 class to a 40/60 class will take some major changes tough. Aw well, I've got time on that one.
And the news about the rogue Cleric was really just the name, tough it has seen some adjustment and is on slow boil at the back of my head.
OK...
1) No sign of Dusty Boy, so Bardess, your Barefoot Friar please!
2) I'm marking Clockwork Mage done, and will move on to the next one, as there has been no major complaints/tweaks suggested. So, next up will be the Coterie Witch (OSW's). I'll post that up sometime tomorrow.
I added arcane assertor and twisted pact with to the pages part of the wiki, but am unclear on how to link it to the lists.
i like the formatting you used
could we work on things for the adaptation and supplements page? on the side i know the focus is on the MCA of course but you know side stuff.
Ooookay...
Primary Class: Inquisitor
Secondary Class: Monk
Alignment Restrictions: As inquisitor. Barefoot friar must worship a deity.
Hit Dice: d8
Bonus Skills and Ranks: +3 monk skills, one of which must be Perform; 4 + Int
BAB: ¾
Saving Throws: GGG
Weapons: simple weapons, no armor
Spell Progression: as inquisitor, changes in spell list
1) AC bonus, Aura, Domain, Orisons, Penetrating gaze, Virtuous preacher 1/day
2) Detect alignment, Inspiration, Lore
3) Faith pool, Virtue spell
4) Virtuous preacher 2/day
5) Discern lies, Purity of body
6) Virtue spell
7) Virtuous preacher 3/day
8) Wholeness of body
9) Virtue spell
10) Virtuous preacher 4/day
11) Diamond body
12) Diamond soul, Virtue spell
13) Virtuous preacher 5/day
14) Superior virtue
15) Virtue spell
16) Virtuous preacher 6/day, Tongue of the sun and moon
17) Favored virtue
18) Virtue spell
19) Virtuous preacher 7/day
20) Paragon of virtue
AC Bonus: As monk. This replaces monster lore.
Aura: The power of a barefoot friar’s aura (see the cleric class ability) is equal to her barefoot friar level.
Domain: As inquisitor, but the barefoot friar can select just a subdomain associated to a “virtue”. Names and values of virtues vary depending on the setting and religion. Each campaign should have no more than 7–9 allowed virtues. Some examples of virtues follow; each player and GM can create other virtues and decide which ones are available to a barefoot friar character.
Penetrating Gaze: A barefoot friar receives a morale bonus on all Perception and Sense Motive checks equal to 1/2 her barefoot friar level (minimum +1). This replaces stern gaze.
Virtuous Preacher: Starting at 1st level, a barefoot friar can effectively and persuasively preach the virtues she believes in, giving specific bonuses to herself or an ally who listens to her virtuous preach. These bonuses are based on the type of preach made. Every virtuous preach uses audible components (sing, oratory).
At 1st level, a barefoot friar can use this ability once per day as a free action. Once heard the virtuous preach, the subject (who may be the barefoot friar herself) the designated subject maintains the bonus for the time required to complete the current endeavor (a combat, a competition, or other); when the endeavor is concluded, all of the bonuses immediately end.
When the barefoot friar uses this ability, she must select one virtue to preach. As a swift action, she can change his preach’s argument. If the barefoot friar is evil, she grants profane bonuses instead of sacred, as appropriate. Neutral barefoot friars must select profane or sacred bonuses. Once made, this choice cannot be changed.
The subject of the preach must be declared when the preach starts, and must be able to hear the barefoot friar to receive the benefits. A barefoot friar can’t grant bonuses to an ally of an alignment opposed to her own or her deity’s (if she has one). At higher levels, the barefoot friar can grant her bonuses to more than one ally at a time, by consuming one daily use of her virtuous preach ability for each ally to affect. This replaces judgment.
Confidence: The creature is fully aware of its own true value, gaining a +1 sacred bonus on all saving throws. This bonus increases by +1 for every five levels of the barefoot friar. At 10th level, the bonus is doubled against compulsions, curses, negative emotions, and fear.
Courage: The creature is filled with divine wrath, gaining a +1 sacred bonus on all weapon damage rolls. This bonus increases by +1 for every three levels of the barefoot friar.
Daring: This virtue spurs the creature to recklessly defy danger, granting a +1 sacred bonus on all attack rolls. This bonus increases by +1 for every five levels of the barefoot friar. At 10th level, this bonus is doubled on all attack rolls made to confirm critical hits.
Endurance: This virtue makes a creature resistant to harm, granting DR 1/magic. This DR increases by 1 for every five levels of the barefoot friar. At 10th level, this DR changes from magic to an alignment (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) that is opposite the barefoot friar’s. If she is neutral, the creature does not receive this increase.
Generosity: This virtue improves a creature’s weapons and armor, making them shine like gold. The creature’s armaments gain extra hardness and hit points as if they had a +1 bonus. This bonus increases by +1 for every five levels of the barefoot friar.
Joy: Unswerving optimism gives a creature a +2 bonus on all skill checks. This bonus increases by +1 for every three levels of the barefoot friar. At 10th level, the bonus is doubled for Charisma–based skills.
Kindness: The creature is surrounded by a healing light, gaining fast healing 1. This causes the creature to heal 1 point of damage each round as long as the virtuous preach effect lasts. The amount of healing increases by 1 point for every three levels of the barefoot friar.
Love/Peace: The creature is protected from damage, converting 1 point of damage received per hit into nonlethal damage. This increases by 1 point for every five levels of the barefoot friar.
Sorrow: Relentless compassion for the sad events of this world strengthens the creature’s heart. Whenever the creature suffers damage, a number of damage points equal to the barefoot friar’s Wisdom bonus are converted to nonlethal damage. This number increases by 1 point for every three levels of the barefoot friar.
Detect Alignment: As inquisitor.
Inspiration: At 2nd level, a barefoot friar adds her Wisdom modifier on Perform skill checks, in addition to her Charisma modifier. This replaces cunning initiative.
Lore: A barefoot friar gains the bardic knowledge class ability at 2nd level, using her barefoot friar level in place of her bard level. This replaces track.
Faith Pool: At 4th level, a barefoot friar gains a pool of faith points. This represents a reserve of divine power acquired through faith and devout meditation. The number of points in a barefoot friar's faith pool is equal to ½ her barefoot friar level + her Wisdom modifier. As long as she has at least 1 point in her faith pool, she can use the Diplomacy skill to make request of a creature regardless of its attitude towards her. At 10th level, she also reduces the DC of Diplomacy skill checks made to influence attitudes and make requests by ½.
By spending 1 point from her faith pool, a barefoot friar can do one of the following:
• Increase by +1 the bonus granted with her vitruous preach ability; or
• Being able to speak a language she normally doesn’t know for 1 minute, or
• Give herself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round.
Each of these powers is activated as a swift action.
The faith pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest or meditation; these hours do not need to be consecutive. A barefoot friar’s faith pool counts as a monk or ninja’s ki pool for purposes of class abilities and vows. This replaces solo tactics.
Virtue Spell: At 3rd level, the barefoot friar gains her domain’s 1st–level spell as a faith power. This functions as a qinggong monk’s ki power. At 6th level, and every three levels thereafter, she gains the next upper level domain spell as a faith power, up to the 6th– level domain spell at 18th level. Her class level is the caster level for these spell-like abilities, and she uses Wisdom to determine her concentration check bonus. 1st and 2nd–level spells cost 1 faith point, 3rd and 4th–level spells cost 2 faith points, and 5th and 6th–level spells cost 3 faith points. This replaces all teamwork feats.
Discern Lies: As inquisitor.
Purity of Body: As monk. This replaces bane.
Wholeness of Body: As monk. This replaces second judgment.
Diamond Body: As monk. This replaces stalwart.
Diamond Soul: As monk. This replaces greater bane.
Superior Virtue: At 14th level, the barefoot friar can use her faith pool to gain new uses of her domain powers. A new use of a domain power normally usable a certain number of times per day costs 3 faith points. Extend for a round/minute the daily duration of a domain power normally usable a certain number of rounds/minutes per day costs 4 faith points.
Using entirely her daily allot of faith points, the barefoot friar can change her virtue domain with another, granted by the same deity. This choice is made at the beginning of the day, after regaining spells and faith points. She immediately loses any powers and virtue spells from the old domain and gains the new domain’s powers and spells. The barefoot friar can’t regain faith points for a whole day after changing her domain. This ability can be used just once per week, and the deity’s permission is needed. A barefoot friar who changes her domain too often can cause her deity’s displeasure, needing an atonement. This replaces exploit weakness.
Tongue of the Sun and Moon: As monk. This replaces third judgment.
Favored Virtue: At 17th level, a barefoot friar preaches more fervently the virtue she’s dedicated to. Whenever a barefoot friar uses her virtuous preach ability, she is treated as if she were 5 levels higher for the purposes of determining the bonus granted by the virtue corresponding to her current virtue domain. Unlike other types of virtuous preach, the one enhanced by this ability cannot be changed for the remainder of the preach. This replaces slayer.
Paragon of Virtue: At 20th level, a barefoot friar becomes one with divine virtue. She is forevermore treated as an outsider rather than as a humanoid (or whatever her creature type was) for the purpose of spells and magical effects. Additionally, whenever the barefoot friar uses her virtuous preach ability, she can affect all adjacent creatures with one use of the preach. Consuming multiple uses of the ability at the same time extends the area of effect by 10 feet for each additional use spent. Unlike other outsiders, the barefoot friar can still be brought back from the dead as if she were a member of her previous creature type. This replaces true judgment.
Tomorrow the changes to the spell list, and in a few days my nine new virtue subdomains... and maybe some corrected feats & spells.
Right, I've added links to the MCAs discussed in these threads, that have been uploaded so far, to the alphabetical and primary class list. I'll continue working through putting them up when I have the time.
#Barefoot Friar
Penetrating Gaze: Perception is a little strong but i understand why you would change it. i guess it will be ok if there is room in the balance. but Perception is "the" skill of all the skills.
i really like what you did with Virtuous Preacher
Inspiration: this might be better to add a perception bonus with
those are the only thing that stuck out to me
#Barefoot Friar. This is not an in-depth analysis, merely a first impression.
This is quite different from just a multiclass, and has elements of Bard too. I admire the "newness" of it, but I think it might be hard to balance. In general, such jack-off-all-trade classes get underbalanced, so you should probably err on the powerful side. Read all my below comments with a grain of salt; they are more potential issues to look for than concrete problems.
You have given up most sources of damage (bane and to a degree teamwork feats) for a weak party buff and variant domain spells, leaving the class with nothing it is particularly good at in combat. The virtues are a bit low-powered as party buffs with so few targets and the capacity to burn all of your daily uses in one go you might suffer from a 5 minute adventuring day. Still, to make them all-party buffs seems to make this class a bit too much like a bard - which could work and does give you a combat role. Personally I think I'd settle for self-buffs. Add some source of damage and you get back to the inquisitor's combat role.
Just checking that I got it right; these people fight with weapons, but defend monk-wise, right? "Barefoot" in the name made me think this would be an unarmed fighter. I think the monk's unarmed combat damage could fill out the combat role nicely. Perhaps this would make the class a Monk/Inquisitor rather than an Inquisitor/Monk tough. I'd sacrifice the domain spells for this; spells you consider very important can simply be added to the spell list.
Monk defense has some balance issues; it needs mage armor to work at lower levels and can grow very powerful at higher levels, but I still think it is the right thing to use here. An idea is to add Mage Armor to the spell list, to avoid sorcerer/wizard dependency. Then again, that is to feed an unhealthy synergy? I leave that call to you.
Detect alignment seems a bit superfluous, there is so little left of the original inquisitor that the investigative role seems passé. And I agree a Perception bonus might be over-the-top; you already have a high Wisdom and Perception as a class and role skill, so you are likely already the best in the party at it. Perhaps a directed perception only to notice creatures (trap sense in reverse, essentially)?
#Barefoor Friar:
@Starfox
I'm not sure, but I think Bardess is going for a more mendicant faith-purveyor/support role than any kind of combat role at all - I guess Barefoot didn't conjure any notion of unarmed fighting.
Add some source of damage and you get back to the inquisitor's combat role.
As I stated above, I don't think this is Bardess' aim here. While I don't always exactly see what a lot of other people describe as the "inquisitor as skill-monkey" (they do have lots of skills after all) it is prevalent. The MCA process allows us to essentially reimagine the mechanical chassis to make new concepts sometimes far removed from the Core or Base intet, even to defying classic party "roles" such as tank, blaster, skill-monkey, healbot etc.0
To be honest, this seems conceptually a mish-mash - the Oriental Barefoot Doctor trope in theme cross-fused with the Inquisitor's judgment mechanic as passed through a Bard's performance. It's like a fusion of a blend of a jam/mash.
Anyway, comments below:
* I'm not against any of the concepts, just finding the blending of some of the flavor/theme into/alogside the mechanics of three classes odd. I don't see any Inquisitor flavor here, but that is completely okay as it seems like a cool take on the mechanics to reach a new flavor. Having done that myself more than once, I'm all for it. I just need a bit of a better understanding of the role of the Barefoot Friar. Sadly, historical friars seem almost completely unsuited to adventuring to me, so this really feels like an NPC class - then again, sometimes adventures find us, rather than the other way around.
* Is there a swap for receiving all good saves?
* AC bonus for monster lore doesn't feel like an equal swap at all.and without any associated flavor I don't understand why this is here at all.
* The Penetrating gaze/Perception thing troubles me only due to the proliferation and usefulness of Perception checks. I do like Starfox' concept of a more directed ability, rather than a blanket uber-sensitivity to all things.
*Virtuous Preach: I agree there is a little of Bard in here - essentially the Inquisitor's judgment has been tweaked into an outward preach/bard's inspire suite. I don't mind it, but it will require some closer inspection.
*Faith pool - I'm not keen on it coming in at 4th level, but yes, that is Bardess' call - it's a little late for me. One problem I see is the ability to increase the bonus of the Virtuous preach by +1 by expending faith points - if you are preaching to more than one person (through expenditure of daily uses of virtuous preach) then do all subjects get the bonus?
What I want to do is basically a Western monk. A little cleric, a little bard, a little monk, a little Adamant priest. It could have been a bard/monk or monk/bard, but I opted for inquisitor/monk (with a smattering of Evangelist cleric) so I could have a Wisdom spontaneous caster with a domain, without armor and able to take VOWS above all. I agree that it's very different from an inquisitor and maybe it can't be a player character class- even if I will do everything I can to make it be! ^^
Yeah, just to make it clear again, my points were MINE - if Bardess wants to develop the class into another direction, I am fine with that. It is just that both monk and inquisitor are damage classes, so I just assumed that combining them would result in damage dealer. The 4E "combat roles" are not the final word on characters. A class should be more than an expression of a combat role. But I find the roles are still rough blueprints that are good to have in the back of your head.
That said, I am all for making "leader" options for "striker" classes - that you can do so is one of the great things about the archetype system. Perhaps make Virtuous Preaching into a more general buff affecting several people at once much like bardic music. Much like how some bard archetypes make bardic performance a Personal effect as a trade-in for other abilities, the barefoot friar could do the same thing in reverse.
That was my idea in the beginning, but I thought that it could be too powerful compared to judgments. Let's see what Elghinn thinks.
I added arcane assertor and twisted pact with to the pages part of the wiki, but am unclear on how to link it to the lists.
I think we are the only ones that can add it to the lists, you just tell us when your done and we'll add them. I think. I'm not sure what Raider has as settings for contributors,whether they can link to lists or only make new pages.For the tables, just copy a similar table from one of the other MCAs and paste it onto the page and make change. Thats the easiest.
@Thomas
Yeah,sure you couldworkon things for the Adaptations and Supplements on the side. Though those tend tocome when working on MCAs anyways. In any case, they'd just need to pass by the MCA crew (core) for approval.
#Will lookover Barefoot Friar today sometime. Busy.
Ok. Meanwhile:
0th– acid splash, sift.
1st– bed of iron, bowstaff, deadeye's lore, disguise self, Gorum's armor, horn of pursuit, interrogation, keep watch, lend judgment, linebreaker, longshot, true strike, wartrain mount.
2nd– bestow weapon proficiency, bloodhound, brow gasher, effortless armor, follow aura, hunter's lore, instrument of agony, knock, litany of defense, magic siege engine, savage maw, spell gauge, tactical acumen.
3rd– battle trance, blessing of the mole, blood scent, deadly juggernaut, false alibi, fearsome duplicate, frosthammer, hunter's eye, improve trap, keen edge, locate weakness, night of blades.
4th– battlemind link, blightburn weapon, coward's lament, crusader's edge, defile armor, divine power, find quarry, forceful strike, interrogation, greater, judgment light, magic siege engine, greater, named bullet, sanctify armor, shadow barbs, stoneskin, ward shield.
5th– divine pursuit, lend judgment, greater, resounding blow, righteous might, stoneskin, communal.
6th– blade barrier, named bullet, greater, tactical insight.
The barefoot friar gains access to the following spells:
0th– enhanced diplomacy, purify food and drink.
1st– abstemiousness, ceremony, charm person, cultural adaptation, detect charm, detect the faithful, diagnose disease, invigorate, remove sickness, share language, tap inner beauty, veil of positive energy.
2nd– bear’s endurance, bestow curse, book ward, charitable impulse, eagle’s splendor, gentle repose, martyr’s bargain, owl’s wisdom, page-bound epiphany, revelation, share language, communal, suppress charms and compulsions, touch of mercy.
3rd– accept affliction, collaborative thaumaturgy, create food and water, guiding star, helping hand, imbue with spell ability, martyr’s last blessing, nap stack, restore mythic power, share glory, symbol of healing, water walk.
4th– aura of doom, blessing of fervor, control summoned creature, control water, debilitating portent, elemental speech, lesser planar ally, rest eternal, soothe construct, spiritual ally, symbol of revelation, symbol of slowing, truespeak.
5th– breath of life, curse, major, hymn of mercy, serenity.
6th– hymn of peace, music of the spheres, symbol of persuasion.
I replaced violence and hunt-oriented spells with cleric and bard spells of a more "Franciscan" nature. Some "judgment/inquisition" spells will be replaced with homebrew fitting versions. A little fluff will follow, soon after the subdomains' completion.
Question for anyone:
Who's working on the terramancer (Wizard/Druid)?
Thanks.
Me. And it's done, just hasn't been posted on the wiki. Until now.
pages ready to be linkified in the wiki
wide eyed oracle
gun prophet
Insightful mind.
#Barefoot friar, I am seriously looking forward to the virtue subdomains.
pages ready to be linkified in the wiki
wide eyed oracle
gun prophet
Insightful mind.
Linked and reformatted.
#Barefoot Friar
What I want to do is basically a Western monk. A little cleric, a little bard, a little monk, a little Adamant priest.
Fine, but nothing in the Western clerical tradition leads me to see a bonus to AC. An Eastern Barefoot Doctor trained in martial arts? Yes, maybe. A tonsured overweight penitent in brown robes chanting Gregorianically? Not at all. ;p
It could have been a bard/monk or monk/bard, but I opted for inquisitor/monk (with a smattering of Evangelist cleric) so I could have a Wisdom spontaneous caster with a domain, without armor and able to take VOWS above all.
I hear you. Only you can make a Wis-based spontaneous caster out of a Bard/Monk or Monk/Bard just by changing the casting stat to Wis.
I agree that it's very different from an inquisitor and maybe it can't be a player character class- even if I will do everything I can to make it be! ^^
I'm sure it will be fine. It's my old 1e/Cloistered Cleric from Dragon Magazine lens that I'm peering through. Just ignore me! ;)
#Barefoot Friar
Yeah, just to make it clear again, my points were MINE - if Bardess wants to develop the class into another direction, I am fine with that.
Sure. I'm also just replying to your points. I'm not saying you are wrong, and I for one value your input.
The body of work on your archetypes page is impressive, and your breakdown of Bardess MCA shows a great knowledge of mechanics and the interplay between them.]It is just that both monk and inquisitor are damage classes, so I just assumed that combining them would result in damage dealer. The 4E "combat roles" are not the final word on characters. A class should be more than an expression of a combat role. But I find the roles are still rough blueprints that are good to have in the back of your head.
Best not to assume anything. ;) And I don't see the monk or inquisitor as primarily damage classes.
That said, I am all for making "leader" options for "striker" classes - that you can do so is one of the great things about the archetype system. Perhaps make Virtuous Preaching into a more general buff affecting several people at once much like bardic music. Much like how some bard archetypes make bardic performance a Personal effect as a trade-in for other abilities, the barefoot friar could do the same thing in reverse.
It already can do this, albeit at cost.
At higher levels, the barefoot friar can grant her bonuses to more than one ally at a time, by consuming one daily use of her virtuous preach ability for each ally to affect
I think if it creates aura buffs from the start it should drop the inquisitor and go Bard/Monk or Monk/Bard, or go Inquisitor/Bard and treat the Virtuous Preach as a tweaked aura Judgment.
Which is a nice idea - even untweaked, a Inq/Bard that has a Judgment Call ability that works like a Bardic Performance but swaps out most of the performances for an aura Judgment you can change from round to round - will have to be tweaked for balance. Put me down for an Inquisitor/Bard - Doomcaller/Battlefavored.... I'm happy for any and all to work on this one when it comes up - or if Bardess wants to change to a Inq/Bard I'm happy to let her work away at it.
@Generally:
Look, the problem for me is that there a bunch of colliding and non-aligned abilities here - the wily unarmed combatant; the grand orator/bard/inspiring commander; the spellcasting priest; the pacific faithful; the perfected physical specimen.
@Bardess - I'm still wondering about the swaps for receiving all good saves - granted it's a Monk class feature, but still...
just food for thought your average jobs Western monk:
brewer/winery: the only source of beverages that was not going to give you dysentery
teaching and scribes:for the longest time the only why to have a book made was to have 12 monks writing it down wile one was reading the book out loud.
medical care and apothecary: almost all injury, sickness, and disease where handle by the monks
so i would look at giving things like
Purity of Body and Wholeness of Body as a bonus for others
think about scribe scroll as a ability
and finally may be lay on hands with mercers
like i said just food for thought
Just thought that an unarmored Priest should have an AC bonus. Other times it's been suggested when I tried to make it an archetype. They said that it would be too weak and unbalanced otherwise. All good saves is another compensation for the lack of armor. Maybe it could be too much.
Sure, I could have gone with Bard, but I wanted a divine caster. Inq/Bard could do nice too, but I wanted an unarmored friar- and all the "perfection" abilities of the Monk are something that legendary western friars had too, included the ability to "talk and preach to animals". If I had to make it as an Inq/Bard, I would put in a little Monk, like i put in a little bard now.
Just thought that an unarmored Priest should have an AC bonus. Other times it's been suggested when I tried to make it an archetype. They said that it would be too weak and unbalanced otherwise. All good saves is another compensation for the lack of armor. Maybe it could be too much.
Ok. I definitely see the need for defensive mechanics, but what you have described of the flavor so far isn't supporting an AC buff. Saves I understand from a thematic standpoint a little more, if you take legendary Western friars. Penitent, hairshirts, mortification, flagellation, ascetics, hermits, meditation, fasting etc. That all fits.
Sure, I could have gone with Bard, but I wanted a divine caster. Inq/Bard could do nice too, but I wanted an unarmored friar- and all the "perfection" abilities of the Monk are something that legendary western friars had too, included the ability to "talk and preach to animals". If I had to make it as an Inq/Bard, I would put in a little Monk, like i put in a little bard now.
Ah. Thus the inquisitor. And with the inquisitor being the "divine bard" analog I guess that fits.
Sorry the "MINE" above came across as too agressive - I meant only that I was making suggestions, that Bardess should ignore or use as you prefer.
Using various inquisitor abilities as if they were bardic performances is a cool idea, and one I like more and more as I think about it. A bit weak balance-wise as a sole buff ability, but certainly a good component in a buff class.
#Barefoot Friar
What I want to do is basically a Western monk. A little cleric, a little bard, a little monk, a little Adamant priest.Fine, but nothing in the Western clerical tradition leads me to see a bonus to AC. An Eastern Barefoot Doctor trained in martial arts? Yes, maybe. A tonsured overweight penitent in brown robes chanting Gregorianically? Not at all. ;p
Afraid I have to agree with Oceanshieldwolf here. I think an entirely supernatural defense like Mage Armor would work better here. Maybe reworked to be more divine in nature. It could use Wis bonus (even if I prefer not to), but I feel you should shy away from martial arts in an occidental monk.
This moves the class towards an Inquisitor/Bard class... Somehow I am not surprised at this coming from someone calling herself "Bardess". And no worries about that, I love bards too.
As a matter of facts, the Friar doesn't use martial arts. Giving up the AC bonus for a more divine protection is OK for me, as long as I can keep the flavor.
Of course, it could also be an Inquisitor/Bard with faith pool and no armor, and a more performance/like preach ability. Or else, an Oracle/Bard or Oracle/Monk.
I think Wolf and Fox have confused you enough for now, Bardess, so I will uncharacteristically shut up and let you work. Take the barefoot friar where you want it to be - an occidental monk is an interesting archetype it itself so it should be allowed some liberties.
Ok, failing to shut up already - I want to submit a Lin Kuei Monk/Rogue (or Monk/Ninja) combination to the que.
Unless we just reflavoured the monk AC bonus as divinely gifted protection. To me that seems the easiest way of dealing with the problem.
Well, Bardess and I go way back. I'm sure she appreciates me less and less. ;)
I don't find the occidental monk interesting in the least (see my disparaging comments about fat tonsured friars) nor do I see a flavor text yet. I do like the mechanical approaches here, but the theme is confused. For me. I'm a terrible critic. I'm all for liberties, but they need flavor or theme.
Personally I think the occidental monk trope will straitjacket you into an unplayable PC MCA. These guys didn't do anything except brew wine, grow food, die of plagues or Vikings, make illuminated manuscripts, maybe talk to animals (I know I can when I've had enough mead), amass huge piles of wealth while the common folk starved, prayed to a Tortured Dying Guy (very family friendly imagery there) and had trouble associating with the other gender of the species. Fantastic. Oh, and they were spiritual.
Obviously I'm an atheist with organised-religion issues that I'm not maturely separating from fantasy. ;)
Bardess - am I being too cruel? I'm sure I'm being ignorant and flippant if nothing else. But do you see where I'm coming from? Without a clear flavor or theme you can get caught throwing in stuff that doesn't belong. I think you need to hard-code your mechanics after you work out the theme and flavor. Is this gal a spiritually charged vessel of the god/gods/goddess?
If so, then the AC bonus can be refluffed however you want. [EDIT - ninja'ed by Browman!]
Spontaneous divine, Wisdom based casting? Sure.
Aura Preaching - okay!
Plus, I do like the spell-list, and the battle stuff in there is giving me more of an idea as to this MCA's flavor. But Barefoot Friar doesn't feel like the name. For me.
Also, I think your stated desire to throw in three class abilities is going to be problematic. I don't think you need to throw Bard into an Inq/Monk - the Inq does that already with a slight tweak.
As it is now, Virtuous Preach is not a performance. The only bardic ability in is Lore.
Also, I HAVE the fluff clear in my mind, only I hadn't time to write it up yet. It will come soon, I promise.
And you know I appreciate you, and you know that I like pacifist divine characters, right? ;) For a witch & paladin lover as you are, I didn't expect this anti-friars oratory XD I still hope to create a playable friar character... this is my least attempt and maybe not the last, but I keep on trying!
Ok! Sounds good. And you know I have a lot of empathy for the pacific approach.
FINALLY got to go through the Barefoot Friar. I'll give other feedback later (maybe even a new name).
One question, is there anything of the Inquisitor actually left?
Also, just wondering how or why an evil Barefoot Friar (I'm thinking maybe Faithful Pacifist, Faithful Preacher, Faithful Friar, or Obdurate Pacifist may be better names) would preach about generosity, love/peace, sorrow, etc? I think we can just include a more "evil" vice name to coincide with the virtue. Suchas Love/Lust, Generosity/Greed, etc.
Anyways, here's what I think the guy should be like. Made some tweaks, incorporated a number of things discussed in the conversation too. Renamed some things and prettied the wording up too. Preach could also be Sermon or Discourse, but I think Preach is good. I'll look at the spell list tomorrow.
Primary Class: Inquisitor.
Secondary Class: Monk.
Alignment: A barefoot friar’s alignment must be within one step of her deity’s, along either the law/chaos axis or the good/evil axis.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The barefoot friar may select three monk skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal inquisitor class skills. The barefoot friar gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The barefoot friar is proficient with all simple weapons, but not with armor or shields.
Spellcasting: A barefoot friar casts divine spells drawn from the barefoot friar spell list. She can cast any spell she knows at any time without preparing it ahead of time, assuming she has not yet used up her allotment of spells per day for the spell’s level. A barefoot friar otherwise learns and casts spells as an inquisitor of her level. She also gains bonus spells for a high Wisdom score.
Aura (Su): A barefoot friar of a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful deity has a particularly powerful aura corresponding to her deity's alignment (see detect evil for details).
Domain: This is exactly like the inquisitor ability of the same name. The barefoot friar may instead select one subdomain associated with one of the following virtues: compassion/despair (Purity/Loss), confidence/arrogance (Loyalty/Slavery), courage/impudence (Heroism/Rage), daring/recklessness (Fate/Curse), generosity/greed (Cooperation/Deception), joy/pleasure (Family/Revelry), kindness/revenge (Friendship/Judgement), love/lust (Love/Lust), patience/relentlessness (Resolve/Ferocity).
Lore (Ex): A barefoot friar gains the bardic knowledge class ability and uses her barefoot friar level as her bard level. This ability replaces monster lore.
Penetrating Gaze: A barefoot friar receives a morale bonus on all Perception and Sense Motive checks equal to 1/2 her barefoot friar level (minimum +1). This ability replaces stern gaze.
Preach (Su): Starting at 1st level, a barefoot friar can effectively and persuasively preach the virtues or vices she believes in, giving specific bonuses to herself or an ally who listens to her sermon. These bonuses are based on the type of sermon made. Every sermon uses audible components (sing, oratory).
At 1st level, a barefoot friar can use this ability once per day as a free action. Once the sermon is heard, the designated subject (who may be the barefoot friar herself) maintains the bonus for the time required to complete the current endeavor (a combat, a competition, or other); when the endeavor is concluded, all of the bonuses or penalties immediately end.
When the barefoot friar uses this ability, she must select one virtue or vice to preach. As a swift action, she can change her sermon’s argument. If the barefoot friar is evil, she grants profane bonuses instead of sacred, as appropriate. Neutral barefoot friars must select profane or sacred bonuses. Once made, this choice cannot be changed.
The subject of the sermon must be declared when the sermon starts, and must be able to hear the barefoot friar to receive the benefits. A barefoot friar can’t grant bonuses to an ally of an alignment opposed to her own or her deity’s (if she has one). At higher levels, the barefoot friar can grant her bonuses to one additional ally for every additional daily use of her preach ability she consumes. This ability replaces judgment.
Confidence/Arrogance: The creature is fully aware of its own true value, gaining a +1 sacred (profane) bonus on all saving throws. This bonus increases by +1 for every five levels of the barefoot friar. At 10th level, this bonus is doubled against compulsions, curses, negative emotions, and fear.
Courage/Impudence: The creature is filled with divine wrath, gaining a +1 sacred (profane) bonus on all weapon damage rolls. This bonus increases by +1 for every three levels of the barefoot friar.
Daring/Recklessness: This virtue spurs the creature to defy danger, granting a +1 sacred (profane) bonus on all attack rolls. This bonus increases by +1 for every five levels of the barefoot friar. At 10th level, this bonus is doubled on all attack rolls made to confirm critical hits.
Patience/Relentlessness: This virtue makes a creature resistant to harm, granting DR 1/magic. This DR increases by 1 for every five levels of the barefoot friar. At 10th level, this DR changes from magic to an alignment (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) that is opposite the barefoot friar’s. If she is neutral, the creature does not receive this increase.
Generosity/Greed: This virtue improves a creature’s weapons and armor, making them shine like gold. The creature’s armaments gain extra hardness and hit points as if they had a +1 bonus. This bonus increases by +1 for every five levels of the barefoot friar.
Joy/Pleasure: Unswerving optimism gives a creature a +2 bonus on all skill checks. This bonus increases by +1 for every three levels of the barefoot friar. At 10th level, the bonus is doubled for Charisma–based skills.
Kindness/Revenge: The creature is surrounded by a healing light, gaining fast healing 1. This causes the creature to heal 1 point of damage each round as long as the preach effect lasts. The amount of healing increases by 1 point for every three levels of the barefoot friar.
Love/Lust: The creature is protected from damage, converting 1 point of damage received per hit into nonlethal damage. This increases by 1 point for every five levels of the barefoot friar.
Compassion/Despair: Relentless sorrow for the sad events of this world strengthens the creature’s heart. Whenever the creature suffers damage, a number of damage points equal to the barefoot friar’s Wisdom bonus are converted to nonlethal damage. This number increases by 1 point for every three levels of the barefoot friar.
Inspiration (Ex): At 2nd level, a barefoot friar adds her Wisdom modifier on Perform skill checks, in addition to her Charisma modifier. This ability replaces cunning initiative.
Divine Shield (Su): Starting at 2nd level, a barefoot friar can call upon her faith to create a shimmering, magical field around herself that averts and deflects attacks. The barefoot friar gains a +1 deflection bonus to AC, plus an additional +1 to the bonus for every four levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +5 deflection bonus at 18th level. Activating the divine shield is a swift action, and remains in effect for 1 minute per level the barefoot friar possesses. These minutes do not need to be consecutive, but must be spent in 1-minute increments. This ability replaces track.
Faith Pool (Su): At 4th level, a barefoot friar gains a pool of faith points. This represents a reserve of divine power acquired through faith and devout meditation. The number of points in a barefoot friar's faith pool is equal to 1/2 her barefoot friar level + her Wisdom modifier. As long as she has at least 1 point in her faith pool, she can use the Diplomacy skill to make a request of a creature regardless of its attitude towards her. At 10th level, she also reduces the DC of Diplomacy skill checks made to influence attitudes and make requests by 1/2.
By spending 1 point from her faith pool, a barefoot friar can do one of the following:
• Increase the bonus granted by her sermon by +1; or
• Speak a language she normally doesn’t know for 1 minute (as tongues), or
• Give herself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round.
Each of these powers is activated as a swift action.
The faith pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest or meditation; these hours do not need to be consecutive. A barefoot friar’s faith pool counts as a monk or ninja’s ki pool for purposes of class abilities and vows. This ability replaces solo tactics.
Faith Power (Sp): At 3rd level, the barefoot friar gains her 1st–level domain spell as a spell-like ability with her caster level equal to her barefoot friar level. At 6th level, and every three levels thereafter, she gains each subsequent level of domain spell as a spell-like ability, up to the 6th–level domain spell at 18th level. The barefoot friar uses her Wisdom modifier as a bonus to any concentration checks made when using a faith power. A barefoot friar must expend 1 faith point to cast a 1st– and 2nd–level domain spell, 2 faith points to cast a 3rd– and 4th–level domain spell, and 3 faith points to cast a 5th– and 6th–level domain spell. This ability replaces teamwork feats.
Purity of Body (Ex): At 5th level, a barefoot friar gains the monk’s purity of body ability. This ability replaces bane.
Wholeness of Body (Ex): At 8th level, a barefoot friar gains the monk’s purity of body ability. This ability replaces second judgment.
Diamond Body (Ex): At 11th level, a barefoot friar gains the monk’s purity of body ability. This ability replaces stalwart.
Greater Faith (Su): At 12th level, a barefoot friar can use her faith pool to regain uses of her domain powers. The barefoot friar can expend 2 faith points to gain one additional use of her first domain power, or 3 faith points to gain one additional use of her second domain power.
In addition, a barefoot friar can expend all her faith points to change her chosen domain to that of another granted by her deity for the rest of the day. This choice is made at the beginning of the day, after regaining spells and faith points. She immediately loses any domain powers and spells of the old domain and gains the new domain’s powers and spells. The barefoot friar can’t regain faith points for a whole day after changing her domain. A barefoot friar can use this ability once per week, and requires her deity’s permission to make the change. A barefoot friar who changes her domain offends her deity, and must atone for her actions (see atonement). This ability replaces greater bane.
Diamond Soul (Su): At 11th level, a barefoot friar gains the monk’s diamond soul ability. This ability replaces exploit weakness.
Tongue of the Sun and Moon (Su): At 16th level, a barefoot friar gains the monk’s tongue of the sun and the moon ability. This ability replaces third judgment.
Favored Virtue (Ex): At 17th level, a barefoot friar preaches more fervently the virtue she is most dedicated to. Whenever a barefoot friar uses her preach ability, she is treated as if she were 5 levels higher for the purposes of determining the bonus granted by this virtue. Unlike other virtues, the one enhanced by this ability cannot be changed for the remainder of the sermon. This ability replaces slayer.
Paragon of Virtue (Su): At 20th level, a barefoot friar becomes one with divine virtue. She is forevermore treated as an outsider rather than as a humanoid (or whatever her creature type was) for the purpose of spells and magical effects. Unlike other outsiders, the barefoot friar can still be brought back from the dead as if she were a member of her previous creature type. Additionally, whenever the barefoot friar uses her preach ability, she can affect all adjacent creatures for the duration of the sermon. Multiple uses of the ability at the same time extend the area of effect by 10 feet for each additional use spent. This replaces true judgment.
Table: Barefoot Friar
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Aura, domain, lore, orisons, penetrating gaze, 1 — — — — —
preach 1/day
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Detect alignment, divine shield, inspiration 2 — — — — —
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Faith pool, faith power 3 — — — — —
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 Preach 2/day 3 1 — — — —
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Discern lies, purity of body 4 2 — — — —
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Faith power 4 3 — — — —
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Preach 3/day 4 3 1 — — —
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Wholeness of body 4 4 2 — — —
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Faith power 5 4 3 — — —
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Preach 4/day 5 4 3 1 — —
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 Diamond body 5 4 4 2 — —
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Faith power, greater faith 5 5 4 3 — —
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Preach 5/day 5 5 4 3 1 —
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 Diamond soul 5 5 4 4 2 —
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Faith power 5 5 5 4 3 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Preach 6/day, tongue of the sun and the moon 5 5 5 4 3 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Favored virtue 5 5 5 4 4 2
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Faith power 5 5 5 5 4 3
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Preach 7/day 5 5 5 5 5 4
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Paragon of virtue 5 5 5 5 5 5
Of course, Elghinn, I included the nine virtues as examples. Other virtues (or vices for evil friars) are allowed, depending on the setting and the GM's decisions. We'll talk again about it when I finish my virtue subdomains to complement the archetype.
At a first glance, it seems that you changed very little. I'm glad about that. ^^
I have not looked at the virtue list (all I can manage to do right now is follow the thread), but I wondered (since I am centering my game in a fairly vanilla Golarion, if you used the seven virtues that the Runelords corrupted into the vices they are known for now. (Yeah, that's not exactly right, but hopefully you know where I'm going).
I think that would be a flavorful inclusion, using those pairings. It could even lay claim to being an ancient tradition dating from the time of the founding of Thassilon or before.
Back to lurking. Thanks for having this thread where anyone can listen in and drop in. It's cool to see the thought process and the back and forth.
It's actually a list from my own homebrew campaign. But it's customizable.
By the way, guys, I discovered that a result very similar to mine could be achieved applying to a Monk the Martyr or Wise package from the Genius Guide to Divine Archetypes.
Comments on Elghinn Lightbringer's barefoot friar. This was all written when sleepless at 2 am, so it might be a tad acidic.
Domain: This is exactly like the inquisitor ability of the same name.
Don't like this expression (that I've seen in a lot of the MCACs. It is not exactly like, it is full or changes. Why not just say that "It is like the inquisitor ability of the same name, except..."
Also, this should probably be limited to domains (and thus exclude inquisitions), see Faith Power below.
Penetrating Gaze:
Would still like a qualifier on which Perception checks.
Preach (Su): Starting at 1st level, a barefoot friar can effectively and persuasively preach the virtues or vices she believes in, giving specific bonuses to herself or an ally
Still pretty weak if this is a buffing class. I am suggesting a change under Inspiration, below.
Inspiration (Ex): At 2nd level, a barefoot friar adds her Wisdom modifier on Perform skill checks, in addition to her Charisma modifier. This ability replaces cunning initiative.
This is cool for flavor, but there is no mechanical incentive for the BF to actually get a Perform skill. Sure, a high skill value is a reward in itself, but we have to pay at least minimal attention to min/maxing. Perhaps Perform could affect how many allies you can affect with Preach (say 1 plus one per 3 ranks in Perform), or perhaps how many allies (all allies in a radius around you equal to a number of feet equal to your skill bonus in Perform (oratory or sing).
Divine Shield (Su):
Being a deflection bonus, this is an encouragement to learn to use some actual armor, since the benefits should stack. As a divine caster, there is other penalty for wearing armor. I think just givieng Mage Armor as a bonus spell would be better than this.
Faith Power (Sp):
Since a BF has access to inquisitions, there is a fair chance that she won't have any domain spells.
Overall, this is still weak. The Perception bonus is certainly not unbalancing the class, but does not a complete class make. If investigation is the prime focus of the class, it should keep Track or get some other ability that specifically helps it discover clues. But lets face it, Pathfinder is a game with combat - if the class is too weak in combat, it might complicate the GMs life by forcing him to re-balance fights.
Good points, Starfox. However, investigation is not the prime focus of the class, it's rather preaching/converting, communication, and buffing.
So, as promised...
Confidence
True strength is not bodily might for you, but just your faith in yourself and those you believe in. In addition, you gain a +2 morale bonus on saving throws against negative emotion effects.
Associated Domain: Glory
Replacement Power: The following granted power replaces the divine presence power of the Glory domain.
You Know the Truth (Su): At 8th level, you can touch a creature bolstering her trust and faith. The creature adds your cleric level as a morale bonus on all dice rolls for 1 minute. You can use this ability once per day at 8th level, plus one additional time per day per every 4 levels you possess beyond 8th.
Replacement Domain Spells: 2nd– stalwart resolve, 4th– restoration, 5th– holy whisper.
Courage
Associated Domain: Strength
Replacement Power: The following granted power replaces the strength surge power of the Strength domain.
Against All Odds (Su): When reduced to below 0 hit points, you can stabilize and continue to act (although you’re staggered) for a number of rounds per day equal to ½ your cleric level (minimum 1). These rounds do not need to be consecutive. When the power expires, you pass out and resume to die.
Replacement Domain Spells: 1st– remove fear, 2nd– blessing of courage and life.
Daring
Associated Domain: Luck
Replacement Power: The following granted power replaces the good fortune power of the Luck domain.
Where Angels Fear to Thread (Su): At 8th level, when you suffer from a penalty or a foe benefits of a bonus caused by a spell or effect, you can reverse it. Your foe’s magic bonuses become penalties, and your magic penalties become bonus of equal power. This effect lasts for a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.
Replacement Domain Spells: 2nd– blessing of luck and resolve, 6th– mass blessing of luck and resolve.
Endurance
Associated Domain: Protection
Replacement Power: The following granted power replaces the aura of protection power of the Protection domain.
Overbearing Patience (Ex): At 8th level, as a standard action, you can touch a creature to grant it great endurance for 1 minute. The creature gains a bonus equal to your resistance bonus on Swim checks made to resist nonlethal damage from exhaustion; Constitution checks made to continue running; Constitution checks made to avoid nonlethal damage from a forced march; Constitution checks made to hold its breath; Constitution checks made to avoid nonlethal damage from starvation or thirst; Constitution checks made to resist cave–ins and collapses; and its Str score for purposes of its maximum carrying capacity. This resistance bonus stacks with the bonuses granted by the Endurance feat. When you use this ability, you lose your resistance bonus granted by the Protection domain for 1 minute. You can use this power on yourself. This ability can be used a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier. At 14th level, you may sleep in any kind of armor without becoming fatigued.
Replacement Domain Spells: 1st– resist energy, 2nd–– bear’s endurance, 6th– mass bear’s endurance, 8th– mind blank.
Generosity
Associated Domain: Nobility
Replacement Power: The following granted power replaces the inspiring word power of the Nobility domain.
Inestimable Armaments (Su): As a standard action, you can enhance an armor or a weapon by touching it, giving it all the properties and appearance of one special material of your choice for 1 minute in addition to all other enhancements it may possess. A single weapon or armor can’t be granted the properties of multiple materials using this power. If the weapon or armor is already made of a special material, it is considered as if it were made of both materials for the duration of this ability. If the owner lets go of the weapon or removes the armor before the power’s duration expires, the enhancement ends. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
Replacement Domain Spells: 2nd– aid, 6th– heroes’ feast, 7th– mage’s magnificent mansion, 9th– heroic invocation.
Joy
Associated Domain: Chaos
Replacement Power: The following granted power replaces the touch of chaos power of the Chaos domain.
Unbound Happiness (Su): Your unswerving optimism helps you in many pinches. As a swift action, you may add a bonus equal to half your cleric level (minimum +1) on one sawing throw against mind–affecting effects or on one Escape Artist check. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
Replacement Domain Spells: 1st– moment of greatness, 4th– good hope, 6th– joyful rapture.
Kindness
Associated Domain: Charm
Replacement Power: The following granted power replaces the dazing touch power of the Charm domain.
Ties of Compassion (Su):When you use a spell or an ability to heal a creature, you are healed as well. You gain ½ of the hit points healed to the other creature. Moreover, if you use a spell or an ability to remove a negative effect or condition from a creature, you gain an immediate saving throw against the same effect or condition. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
Replacement Domain Spells: 2nd– compassionate ally, 3rd– charitable impulse.
Peace
Associated Domain: Good
Replacement Power: The following granted power replaces the holy lance power of the Good domain.
Symbol of Peace (Sp): At 8th level, as a standard action, you can trace a luminous symbol in the air that emits a soft glow visible to all within a 30–foot radius. All creatures seeing the symbol must abstain from attacks and violent actions until they leave the area. The creatures are allowed a Will save to avoid the effect, with a DC equal to 10 +1/2 your cleric level + your Wisdom modifier. This ability can be used for a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.
Replacement Domain Spells: 2nd– touch of mercy, 5th– hymn of mercy, 7th– hymn of peace, 8th– euphoric tranquility.
Sorrow
Associated Domain: Good
Replacement Power: The following granted power replaces the holy lance power of the Good domain.
Share Suffering (Su): At 8th level, as a standard action, you can touch a wounded creature to transfer its wounds to yourself. You transfer to the creature a maximum number of hit points equal to your level + your Wisdom modifier, and suffer the same number of damage points as non lethal damage. You can use this ability once per day at 8th level, plus one additional time per day per every 4 levels you possess beyond 8th.
Replacement Domain Spells: 2nd– delay pain, 3rd– accept affliction, 4th– overwhelming grief.
See you tomorrow with the archetype fluff!
Here is our next Wiki MCA. The Coterie Witch by OSW.
As the beasts join together for protection and strength in number, so too does the coterie witch surround herself with a pack of eldritch familiars that enhance her understanding and ability to access different aspects of her patron. These familiars, known as associate familiars, form a symbiotic bond with their mistress, who is able to transfer inimical magic by sacrificing the wellbeing of her loyal, bestial aides to remain inviolate. As her power grows and her link to her familiars strengthens, the coterie witch is even able to take on the forms of her various brood members.
Primary Class: Summoner.
Secondary Class: Witch.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The coterie witch selects three witch skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal summoner class skills. The coterie witch gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 2 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The coterie witch is proficient with all simple weapons. A coterie witch is also proficient with light armor. A coterie witch can cast arcane spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a coterie witch wearing medium or heavy armor, or using a shield, incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass coterie witch still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.
Spellcasting: A coterie witch casts arcane spells drawn from the witch’s spell list, and adds the following summoner spells to that list: 1st level–lesser rejuvenate eidolon*, life conduit†, summon monster I; 2nd level–lesser evolution surge*, lesser restore eidolon**, summon monster II; 3rd level–control summoned monster**, evolution surge*, improved life conduit†, rejuvenate eidolon*, restore eidolon**, summon monster IV; 4th level–greater evolution surge*, summon monster V, summoner conduit†, transmogrify*; 5th level–greater life conduit†, greater rejuvenate eidolon*, summon monster VII; 6th level–summon monster VII. A coterie witch can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Coterie Witch. The coterie witch otherwise learns and prepares spells as a witch of his coterie witch level. The coterie witch also gains bonus spells for a high Intelligence score. (*Advanced Player’s Guide, **Ultimate Magic, †Ultimate Combat)
Associate Patronage: Starting at 1st level, each coterie familiar represents a different aspect of his patron. Whenever the coterie witch gains a new coterie familiar (including the one gained at 1st level), he must select an additional patron associated to that familiar. An associate patron can only be chosen once, and once selected, it cannot be changed. Each of these associate patrons grants the coterie witch access to a wider variety of patron spells. A coterie witch cannot choose an associate patron that is in conflict with his initial patron or another familiar’s associate patron. Whenever the coterie witch prepares his spells each day, he chooses a familiar with which to commune. He can either choose to retain his initial patron, or replace it with the familiar’s associate patron. Once the coterie witch makes this choice, it cannot be changed until the next time he communes with a familiar to regain his daily allotment of spells. The coterie witch is considered to have the spells from his initial patron in his spell list if he fails to select an associate patron in its place.
For example, a 7th-level coterie witch with the ancestors patron has three coterie familiars with the deception, healing, and light associate patrons. Each day he may add either his ancestors patron spells to his spell list, or the patron spells from one of his familiar’s associate patrons. This ability and transference replace monster summon VIII, monster summon IX, and gate.
Coterie Familiar (Ex): At 1st level, a coterie witch forms a close bond with a familiar of her choice (see Familiars on p.82 of the Core Rulebook). Like other witch’s a coterie witch must commune with his familiar to learn his spells. As the coterie witch gains additional familiars, each familiar stores all of the spells that the coterie witch knows. Therefore, the coterie witch needs only to commune with one of his familiars to prepare his a spell for the day. A coterie familiar otherwise functions like a witch’s familiar, except with the following changes.
A coterie familiar is similar to a creature of its kind and type. A familiar’s Hit Dice, saving throws, skills, feats, and abilities are tied to the coterie witch’s class level and increase as the coterie witch gains levels. The statistics shown on Table: Coterie Familiar Base Statistics replace the statistics of the creature’s original form, but retains any special abilities, speed modes, etc., not included on the table. In addition, a coterie familiar receives a pool of evolution points, based on the coterie witch’s class level that can be used to give the coterie familiar different abilities and powers. Whenever the coterie witch gains a level, he must decide how these points are spent, and they are set until he gains another level of coterie witch. The coterie familiar also bears a glowing rune that is identical to a rune that appears on the coterie familiar’s forehead, creating a special link between it and its master. While this rune can be hidden through mundane means, it cannot be concealed through magic that changes appearance, such as alter self or polymorph (although invisibility does conceal it as long as the spell lasts).
As the coterie witch gains levels, he gains additional familiars, creating a coterie of various familiars that serve and obey his commands. Starting at 2nd level, and every level the Hit Dice of his coterie increases, a coterie witch can either increase a single familiar in the coterie by 1 HD, or add an additional 1 HD familiar to the coterie. An individual coterie familiar cannot be advanced beyond 5 Hit Dice, nor can the total sum of the coterie’s Hit Dice exceed the Hit Dice shown on Table: Coterie Base Statistics. Each familiar retains its initial form and all statistics associated with its type. Regardless of the number of familiars in the coterie, each familiar has the same base attack bonus and base saving throw bonuses, but the rest of the coterie’s base statistics must be divided between the familiars, including Hit Dice (minimum 1, maximum 5), skill points, number of feats, armor bonus, Str/Dex bonus, evolution pool (but see below), and maximum number of natural attacks. Individual familiars in the coterie must purchase evolutions separately. A coterie familiar may not select an evolution that alters it size, except for the new growth evolution (see below). Once a coterie witch decides on the evolutions of an individual familiar, they cannot be changed until the coterie witch gains a level.
Example: A 2nd-level coterie witch can have two familiars. Each familiar has 1 Hit Dice, BAB +2, +3 on its two good saves and +0 on its bad save, and an Intelligence of 6. The coterie witch decides to give the first familiar 4 skill points, one feat, a +1 armor bonus, a +1 bonus to Strength, 2 points from the evolution pool, and a maximum of two attacks. The remaining 4 skill points, +1 armor bonus, +1 bonus to Dexterity, and 2 points from the evolution pool go to the second familiar, but it gains no feats and can have only one natural attack.
Unlike a summoner’s eidolon(s), the coterie witch’s familiars are not summoned creatures, and therefore, are always present with their master. Each familiar in the coterie is slain individually when its hit points are reduced to a negative number equal to or greater than its Constitution score. A coterie witch possesses a number of similar summoner abilities, but with slightly different rules as described hereafter. This ability replaces eidolon.
Coterie Link (Su): This is exactly like the summoner’s life link ability, except that it applies to the coterie witch’s familiar. At 3rd level, a coterie witch can only sacrifice hit points to prevent damage to one familiar in the coterie at a time. If two or more familiars in the coterie take enough damage to kill them, the coterie witch can only sacrifice hit points to prevent damage to one of them. The link between a coterie witch and his coterie is unique. Whenever the coterie witch is affected by a mind-affecting spell or spell-like effect, both the coterie witch and each familiar in the coterie can be affected. In such cases, the coterie witch makes a single Will save against the spell or effect, but uses the highest save bonus between himself and his coterie. If it’s successful, the coterie witch and the coterie are unaffected. If it fails, the coterie witch and his coterie are each affected simultaneously. If a coterie familiar is directly affected by a mind-affecting spell or spell-like effect, only that familiar is affected.
In addition, while all familiars in the coterie are present and within 30 feet of their master, the coterie witch gains a +1 bonus to his caster level on spells and hexes. He also gains a +1 morale bonus on all saving throws against spells and effects that directly target him only. This morale bonus increases by +1 every five levels beyond 3rd, to a maximum of +4 at 18th level. This ability otherwise functions as and replaces life link.
Patron: At 1st level, a coterie witch gains the witch’s patron ability and may select from any patron available to other witches.
Summon Monster I (Sp): This is exactly like the summoner ability of the same name, except that the coterie witch can only use up to summon monster VII, as shown on Table: Coterie Witch. Also, unlike the summoner, a coterie witch can use his summon monster ability when his coterie familiars are present, since his coterie familiars are not summoned creatures.
Coterie Senses (Su): This is exactly like the summoner’s ability of the same name. At 3rd level or higher, the coterie witch can only share the senses of one eidolon in his brood at a time. This ability otherwise functions as and replaces bonded senses.
Hex: At 4th level, the coterie witch gains the witch’s hex ability, except that the coterie witch gains a hex at 4th level and every four levels thereafter. At 12th level, whenever a coterie witch could select a hex, he can select a major hex instead. This ability replaces shield ally, transposition, greater shield ally, and merge forms.
Transference (Su): Beginning at 5th level, whenever the coterie witch gains a condition, whether from natural causes or due to the effects of a spell or spell-like ability, he can transfer it to one of his familiars as an immediate action. The coterie witch must make an opposed Intelligence check against the Intelligence score of the familiar he wants to transfer the condition to. If he fails, the condition remains with the coterie witch. If successful the condition is immediately transferred to the chosen familiar. Only one condition may be transferred each round. If the coterie witch gains multiple conditions, each condition must be transferred to a separate familiar. Once a condition is transferred, it remains with the familiar until it is removed or ends.
At 5th level, the coterie witch can transfer the dazed, fatigued, shaken, sickened, and staggered conditions to one of his familiars.
At 11th level, a coterie witch adds the cursed, diseased, exhausted, frightened, nauseated, and poisoned conditions to the list of those that can be transferred to a familiar.
At 17th level, a coterie witch adds the blinded, deafened, panicked, paralyzed, and stunned and conditions to the list of those that can be transferred to a familiar.
Coterie’s Call (Su): This is exactly like the summoner’s maker’s call ability, except that the coterie witch can only call one familiar in the coterie to his side with each use of this ability. This ability otherwise functions as and replaces maker’s call.
Coterie Eidolon (Su): At 10th level, as a full-round action, a coterie witch can merge his coterie familiars into a single creature called a coterie eidolon. This merger includes all of the coterie’s different familiars, and their evolutions. While merged in this way, the coterie functions as a single creature. All effects and spells currently targeting the coterie or any of its familiars is suspended until they emerge from the coterie eidolon (although durations continue to expire). The coterie eidolon has the base statistics (Hit Dice, BAB, saves, etc.) of a normal eidolon of the coterie witch’s level. The coterie witch can, as a free action, reassign these evolution points to new evolutions while the coterie familiar’s are merged. Once the coterie eidolon is no longer maintained, the coterie familiars emerge in a square adjacent to the eidolon if able, and with the same statistics (Hit Dice, BAB, saves, evolutions, etc.) they had prior to the merger. If the eidolon is slain while the coterie familiars are merged, the familiars are immediately ejected, each taking 4d6 points of damage, and are stunned for 1 round. The coterie witch can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to his coterie witch level. He can end this effect at any time as a swift action. This ability replaces aspect.
Coterie Bond (Su): This is exactly like the summoner’s life bond ability, except the coterie witch can only transfer damage to one familiar in the coterie at a time. If that familiar takes enough damage to kill it, all excess damage remains with the coterie witch, killing him. In addition, if the coterie witch gains a condition (diseased, fatigued, shaken, etc.), whether from natural causes or due to the effects of s spell or spell-like ability, he may transfer the condition to one of his familiars instead, as a swift action. Only one condition may be transferred to a single familiar. If the coterie witch gains multiple conditions, each condition must be transferred to a separate familiar. The coterie witch may transfer only one condition each round. This ability otherwise functions as and replaces life bond.
Coterie Form (Sp): At 18th level, a coterie witch and his coterie share a true connection. As a standard action, the coterie witch can assume the shape of one of the familiars in his coterie from Diminutive to Huge size (or a similar kind of animal) as if using beast shape III. For example, a coterie witch with a rat familiar can turn into a Diminutive rat, Small dire rat, or a larger rodent; one with a cat familiar can turn into a Diminutive or Small cat, or a Large feline such as a tiger, lion, or dire tiger; one with a monkey familiar can turn into a Tiny monkey or a Large gorilla, and so on.
While in this form, the coterie witch loses any natural attacks and all racial traits (except bonus feats, skills, and languages) in favor of the abilities granted by the familiar’s base form. However, the coterie witch retains all of his class features, hit points, AC, ability scores, and any other abilities unaffected by size or creature type. These statistics are then adjusted according to the size and type of his assumed form. He can choose to have any gear that he carries become absorbed by his new form, as with spells from the polymorph subschool. Items with continuous effects continue to function while absorbed in this way. The coteries witch can keep this animal form for a number of minutes per day equal to his coterie witch level. This duration does not need to be consecutive, but it must be spent in 1-minute increments. The coterie witch can end this effect as a free action. This ability replaces greater aspect.
Coterie Master (Su): At 20th level, a coterie witch can greatly enhance his coterie by making one of his familiars more powerful. The coterie witch chooses one of the familiars in his coterie. The familiar then gains 5 extra Hit Dice (up to a maximum of 10 HD). Its base statistics are recalculated as a coterie familiar of its new Hit Dice, and the familiar continues to function as part of the witch’s coterie. In effect, the coterie’s maximum total Hit Dice increases to 20, with the 5 extra Hit Dice added to a single familiar of the coterie witch’s choice. This ability replaces twin eidolon.
Hexes: The following hexes complement the coterie witch multiclass archetype: beast of ill-omen**, cackle*, charm*, feral speech**, flight*, unnerve beasts**, and ward*. (*Advanced Player’s Guide, **Ultimate Magic)
Major Hexes: The following major hexes complement the coterie witch multiclass archetype: beast eye**, and hag’s eye*. (*Advanced Player’s Guide, **Ultimate Magic)
Table: Coterie Witch
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Associate patronage, cantrips, coterie familiar, 1 — — — — —
coterie link, patron spells, summon monster I
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Coterie senses 2 — — — — —
3rd +2 +1 +1 +3 Summon monster II 3 — — — — —
4th +3 +1 +1 +4 Hex 3 1 — — — —
5th +3 +1 +1 +4 Transference 4 2 — — — —
6th +4 +2 +2 +5 Coterie’s call 4 3 — — — —
7th +5 +2 +2 +5 Summon monster III 4 3 1 — — —
8th +6/+1 +2 +2 +6 Hex 4 4 2 — — —
9th +6/+1 +3 +3 +6 Summon monster IV 5 4 3 — — —
10th +7/+2 +3 +3 +7 Coterie eidolon 5 4 3 1 — —
11th +8/+3 +3 +3 +7 Transference 5 4 4 2 — —
12th +9/+4 +4 +4 +8 Hex, major hex 5 5 4 3 — —
13th +9/+4 +4 +4 +8 Summon monster V 5 5 4 3 1 —
14th +10/+5 +4 +4 +9 Coterie bond 5 5 4 4 2 —
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +5 +9 Summon monster VI 5 5 5 4 3 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10 Hex 5 5 5 4 3 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10 Transference 5 5 5 4 4 2
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +6 +11 Coterie form 5 5 5 5 4 3
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Summon monster VII 5 5 5 5 5 4
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Coterie master, hex 5 5 5 5 5 5
A coterie familiar’s abilities are determined by the coterie witch’s level and by the choices made using its evolution pool. Table: Coterie Familiar Base Statistics determines many of the base statistics of the familiars. Each familiar possesses its original form, but are superseded by these base statistics. Coterie familiars are creatures of their type for the purpose of determining which spells affect them. A coterie familiar’s qualities are similar to those described in the Eidolons description block of the Advanced Player’s Guide (see p. 58), except with the following changes.
Intelligence Score: This supersedes the coterie familiar’s Intelligence score if its score is lower than that listed below.
Special: This includes a number of abilities gained by all coterie familiars as they increase in power. A coterie familiar’s abilities are similar to those described in the Familiars description block of the Core Rulebook (see p. 82), except with the following changes.
Deliver Hexes and Touch Spells: This is exactly like the familiar’s deliver touch spells ability, except that it includes hexes as well. Only one familiar can deliver its master’s hex or a touch spell each round.
Coterie Familiar Evolutions
The following evolutions are specific to the coterie witch multiclass archetype, and cannot be used by other summoners.
1–Point Evolution
The following evolution costs 1 point from the coterie familiar evolution pool.
Growth (Ex): A coterie familiar grows in size to one size category larger. If growing from Diminutive to Tiny, the coterie familiar gains a +2 bonus to Strength, and it takes a –2 penalty to its Dexterity. This size change also gives the creature a –2 size penalty to its AC and on attack rolls, a +2 bonus to its CMB and CMD, a –2 penalty on Fly skill checks, and a –4 penalty on Stealth skill checks. The coterie familiar must be Diminutive or larger to take this evolution. The coterie witch must be at least 2nd level before selecting this evolution.
If growing from Tiny to Small, the coterie familiar gains a +4 bonus to Strength, and a –2 penalty to its Dexterity. This size change also gives the creature a –1 size penalty to its AC and attack rolls, a +1 bonus to its CMB and CMD, 5-foot reach, a –2 penalty on Fly skill checks, and a –4 penalty on Stealth skill checks. The coterie witch must be at least 4th level before selecting this option. This option costs 2 evolution points.
If growing from Small to Medium, the coterie familiar gains a +4 bonus to Strength, a +2 bonus to Constitution, and a –2 penalty to its Dexterity. This size change also gives the creature a –1 size penalty to its AC and attack rolls, a +1 bonus to its CMB and CMD, a –2 penalty on Fly skill checks, and a –4 penalty on Stealth skill checks. The coterie witch must be at least 6th level before selecting this option. This option costs 3 evolution points
This evolution can be used multiple times on the same familiar, up to a maximum of Medium size. This evolution cannot be used to make a coterie familiar larger than Medium size.
Table: Coterie Familiar Base Statistics
Class Good Bad Armor Str/Dex Int Evol. Max.
Level HD BAB Saves Save Skills Feats Bonus Bonus Score Pool Atks Special
1st 1 +1 +2 +0 4 1 +0 +0 6 3 3 Alertness, empathic link
2nd 2 +2 +3 +0 8 1 +2 +1 6 4 3 Improved evasion,
share spells
3rd 3 +3 +3 +1 12 2 +2 +1 7 5 3 Deliver hexes and
touch spells
4th 3 +3 +3 +1 12 2 +2 +1 7 7 4 —
5th 4 +4 +4 +1 16 2 +4 +2 8 8 4 Speak with master
6th 5 +5 +4 +1 20 3 +4 +2 8 9 4 —
7th 6 +6 +5 +2 24 3 +6 +3 9 10 4 Speak with animals
of its kind
8th 6 +6 +5 +2 24 3 +6 +3 9 11 4 —
9th 7 +7 +5 +2 28 4 +6 +3 10 13 5 —
10th 8 +8 +6 +2 32 4 +8 +4 10 14 5 —
11th 9 +9 +6 +3 36 5 +8 +4 11 15 5 Spell resistance
12th 9 +9 +6 +3 36 5 +10 +5 11 16 5 —
13th 10 +10 +7 +3 40 5 +10 +5 12 17 5 —
14th 11 +11 +7 +3 44 6 +10 +5 12 19 6 Scry on familiar
15th 12 +12 +8 +4 48 6 +12 +6 13 20 6 —
16th 12 +12 +8 +4 48 6 +12 +6 13 21 6 —
17th 13 +13 +8 +4 52 7 +14 +7 14 22 6 —
18th 14 +14 +9 +4 56 7 +14 +7 14 23 6 —
19th 15 +15 +9 +5 60 8 +14 +7 15 25 7 —
20th 15 +15 +9 +5 60 8 +16 +8 15 26 7 —
Good points, Starfox. However, investigation is not the prime focus of the class, it's rather preaching/converting, communication, and buffing.
So, as promised...** spoiler omitted **...
I like these, they're good additions. However, I think, if we are going to have new subdomains specific to the MCA provided for those Barefoot Friars of Good (Neutral) alignment, then we should also provide the flip side, and give them the evil equivalencies for those of Evil (Neutral) alignment. While others can be made by the GM, I think we need to provide at least the bare minimum as exmples for the evil versions so that its ready to play if one chooses to be evil.
They would need to have names similar to those of the virtues, not necessarily oppositions, but corrupted versions of them. Just as Courage can be had by cboth good and evil, a more corrupted version of Courage would be Impudence or Audacity, which projects a more selflish sense of "courage" or "bravery" vs. the altruistic sense of true courage. I've suggested these in my revised version above, and tried to find good words to portray them, though if others have better words, then by all means let's hear them. This is as much flavor as it is function.
So currently I have
Confidence = Arrogance
Courage = Impudence
Daring = Recklessness
Generosity = Greed
Joy = Pleasure
Kindness = Revenge
Love/Peace = Lust/Control or Tyranny
Patience = Relentlessness
Sorrow = Despair
With the addition of your current new subdmains, I'll need to just tweak some of the wording of things. But I really think we should come up with additiona "evil" subdomains related to the virtues/vices, even if we just use some that are already in existence. Might even be good to look at the inquisitions for ideas, and tweak them somewhat into new subdomains for our purposes (ie add in swaps for spells etc.).
Well I don't know what to say about the coterie other than that I like it. seems like a lot of bookkeeping though, what with all the familiars and the eidolon as well. but it doesn't seem any more exploitable than the standard eidolon and summoner. Would have to break it down more to see.
btw in the spirit of halloween here is the product i've been working on for little red goblin games the tome of twisted things. my warped also found a slot in the mix as well. personally though my favorite's are the darkborn and avenger. Those were awesome to work on.