So, thinking ahead on how to enchant my magus' sword. Presently I'm thinking:
For the actual weapon enchantments:
+3 enhancement bonus (+3) With a 3/4 BAB to-hit bonuses are golden.
Spell storing (+1) For that extra 15d6 added to your nova on the big bad.
Keen (+1) Because crits.
From the arcane pool:
+2 enhancement bonus (+2) With a 3/4 BAB to-hit bonuses are golden.
Bane or Elemental damage(+1) Bane is a fantastic enchantment, especially given the fact that a magus can tailor the enchantment to be active every encounter. An elemental damage enchantment until the Bane Blade arcana is available.
Elemental damage (+1) Tailored to avoid resistances.
Elemental damage (+1) Tailored to avoid resistances.
So eventually he'll be wielding a +5 keen spell storing fiery frost bane gunblade.
Does anyone have any suggestions on what might be more effective? I'm not entirely happy with the elemental enchants, but can't find anything that would be more effective for a magus. Impact has great flavor, but mathematically it seems like bumping a 1d6 to a 1d8 would be significantly weaker, unfortunately.
I suppose I could go with Holy instead of the two elementals, though that also seems like a downgrade, trading 2d6 all the time (save versus resistant foes) to 2d6 sometimes (only versus Evil).
I'd love to slap Duelling on it as well, but unfortunately a scimitar (the gunblade's mechanical classification) cannot be finessed, so it doesn't qualify, even though Weapon Finesse is a prereq of Dervish Dance.
No suggestions? Or is everyone using the same setup I suggested? :p
On a related note, are there rules in Pathfinder for picking up the special abilities of named weapons? I seem to recall there were some in 3.5, though admittedly item crafting was never the strong point of my rules mastery.
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Best weapon, Headbutt Helmet with antlers taped to it.
everything else looks pretty circumstantial.
Everything else...other than what?
Hrm. I was hoping to garner some tricks with this thread, but perhaps it doesn't get any better than it seems...
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Why ever would you want to put ANY elemental damage on this weapon?
At BEST you are looking at doing 12 more damage on a crit rolling max damage at 20th level. You'll average out doing 10-ish damage around with any elemental bonus, against a target with 200-400 hp. Really a waste of an enchant to be honest.
Now if you are wielding a +5 weapon then I'd definitely go with a Dispelling enchant instead.
A free dispel magic attempt when you hit at a +5 over what everyone else can while still doing damage and dropping whatever spell you have loaded in the spell storing part as well.
I'd swap dispelling for keen as a permanent enchant and rely on your arcane pool to keep your weapon keen.
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If you are debating Holy v. Elemental, let me point out that a LOT of higher powered encounters are evil, unless you are in an evil campaign, in which case you get Unholy. And DR (holy resistance) can be overcome, in fact, the Holy enchantment gives you a way to overcome DR/Good. Also, A LOT of things are resistant/immune to elemental damage and a lot of it. Since you can't really add acid or sonic, the damages least resisted, or force, elemental is rather inferior. Impact is inferior to a lot of things if you are a variation of the Scimitazer build, but if you are a Katana Kensai variation of the magus, it is great to be dealing 2d6. Basically, this is how I see the enchantments:
Holy=Bane=Keen>Spell Storing>Impact>Elemental>wielding an improvised weapon.
The +3 on your weapon is an enhancement bonus, so it doesn't stack with the +2 from your arcane pool to give you a +5.
"These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon
enhancement to a maximum of +5." Ultimate Magic, pg. 9.So, yes, it does add together to give him a +5.
A lightsaber whose blade you can extend to one mile in length in the flash of an instant and vice versa. most epic magus weapon ever.
Now if you are wielding a +5 weapon then I'd definitely go with a Dispelling enchant instead...I'd swap dispelling for keen as a permanent enchant and rely on your arcane pool to keep your weapon keen.
It's funny you should mention Dispelling. When looking through the available enchantments I considered it, but in the end I figured the situational dispel magic could be covered by a scroll, so it'd be less efficient to get it as a weapon enchant than elemental damage that could be applied to far more foes.
Then again, in high-level play there are a lot of spells being tossed around, so if I set that to pick up later in my magus' career I could pick it up just as my foes are starting to use spells more and more...
In the end, you're right, I think. I can afford to give up a piddly about of elemental damage in the grand scheme of things.
If you are debating Holy v. Elemental, let me point out that a LOT of higher powered encounters are evil, unless you are in an evil campaign, in which case you get Unholy. And DR (holy resistance) can be overcome, in fact, the Holy enchantment gives you a way to overcome DR/Good. Also, A LOT of things are resistant/immune to elemental damage and a lot of it. Since you can't really add acid or sonic, the damages least resisted, or force, elemental is rather inferior. Impact is inferior to a lot of things if you are a variation of the Scimitazer build
I am indeed a scimitazer, though skinned very differently. :) And you make a good point about the mid- to high-level game. I'm not sure how often the DR issue will come into play (can't a high enhancement bonus bypass DR/good as well?) but even if it doesn't come into play at all, that'd be 2d6 that isn't stopped by elemental resistances of any kind.
Hrm. Looking at the numbers, it doesn't look like I have room for both dispelling and holy since holy is a +2 enchantment. Currently I've got:
+5 enhancement
+1 keen
+1 spell storing
+1 bane
+1 dispelling
+1 <currently free>
Is dispelling burst worth the extra +1 over dispelling? Or perhaps ghost touch...
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The weapon itself could be a +1 keen spell storing dispelling and you could use bane and devoted blade to get bane and holy along with a +2 enchantment. Having bane on your weapon just reduces the versatility of bane blade. Dispelling burst is nice and semi-worth the +1, but being a 3/4 BAB, I'd stick with the +1.
I definitely agree that Bane will be via the arcane pool. I wouldn't even consider bane regularly, but with the arcane pool it becomes really nice. The list in my last post was just for the total weapon, 5 enchantments plus 5 from the arcane pool.
I also agree with you about the +5, the weapon will definitely have a total +5 enhancement bonus.
It's that last +1 bonus I'm thinking of.
The trouble I have with Devoted Blade is that not only does it cost an extra 1 arcane pool point, but you still have to pay another 2 points to actually put Holy on your weapon. With Bane you're just paying the 1 point extra and Bane is automatically added to your weapon when you enhance at no additional cost. It still costs one extra point beyond the standard 1 point needed regularly, but at least it doesn't double-charge.
The cost is simply not worth it, imo.
I'm beginning to think Dispelling Burst is my best option. There doesn't seem to be a good +1 bonus I haven't already picked up.
A question for DMs: Would you allow a player to buy Dispelling at a +1, and then "upgrade" the enchantment later by paying another +1 to make it the +2 Dispelling Burst?
Another point in favor of holy over elemental damage: Elemental damage is resisted separately, but Holy is extra damage that stacks with your base damage for overcoming DR.
I've already been pretty well-convinced at this point to drop the elemental damage, my current concept looks like this:
Via arcane pool:
Enhancement (+3)
Bane (+1)
Keen (+1)
On the weapon:
Enhancement (+2)
Spell Storing (+1)
With the last +2 on the weapon being either Dispelling Burst or Holy. I'd love to hear folks' thoughts on which they think is better, or if there's an even better alternative to fill up that last +2 bonus.
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Another point in favor of holy over elemental damage: Elemental damage is resisted separately, but Holy is extra damage that stacks with your base damage for overcoming DR.I've already been pretty well-convinced at this point to drop the elemental damage, my current concept looks like this:
Via arcane pool:
Enhancement (+3)
Bane (+1)
Keen (+1)On the weapon:
Enhancement (+2)
Spell Storing (+1)With the last +2 on the weapon being either Dispelling Burst or Holy. I'd love to hear folks' thoughts on which they think is better, or if there's an even better alternative to fill up that last +2 bonus.
In this particular case Holy is sub-par for you.
The main advantage of holy is it allows you to bypass alignment DR for all the evil critters you run into at mid to high level play. YOU have a +5 weapon that automatically bypasses that DR (it bypasses everything but DR epic but as soon as you turn on bane it bypasses that too), so the only thing Holy offers you is +2D6 damage. Not worth the +2 enchant cost.Second, dispelling burst has truly bad language on it that could really bite you in the butt depending on your GM. A normal dispelling weapon can discharge the spell in it as a free action all the time, the language on dispelling burst says you need to confirm a critical hit to discharge it as a free action.
It's poorly worded and even in the best interpretation it's a bad ability for a magus. Remember the big difference between the normal and the burst is the burst lets you store greater dispel magic in it. HOWEVER that's a 6th level spell for a magus so you can't store that spell yourself before 16th level and it still eats up one of your VERY few 6th level spells to refill it.
Not worth it, pick something else.
Lightsaber. Because that way on your turn, you can make cool lightsaber noises: "Maooom, waoom"...
In this particular case Holy is sub-par for you...A normal dispelling weapon can discharge the spell in it as a free action all the time, the language on dispelling burst says you need to confirm a critical hit to discharge it as a free action...It's poorly worded and even in the best interpretation it's a bad ability for a magus...Not worth it, pick something else.
Dang Mathwei...you make some great points against both Holy and Dispelling Burst...unfortunately that leaves me at a loss. Looking over the list of potential enchantments, I'm not finding anything that really wow's me.
Wounding? With a couple of rounds of attacks the bleed damage could start to add up, but one heal and it's back down to zero again...
Pick up the Ghost Blade arcana; Brilliant Energy+Keen forever.
Pick up the Ghost Blade arcana; Brilliant Energy+Keen forever.
I love the concept of Brilliant Energy, but in practice the fact that its so situational makes it much less appealing.
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In this particular case Holy is sub-par for you...A normal dispelling weapon can discharge the spell in it as a free action all the time, the language on dispelling burst says you need to confirm a critical hit to discharge it as a free action...It's poorly worded and even in the best interpretation it's a bad ability for a magus...Not worth it, pick something else.Dang Mathwei...you make some great points against both Holy and Dispelling Burst...unfortunately that leaves me at a loss. Looking over the list of potential enchantments, I'm not finding anything that really wow's me.
Wounding? With a couple of rounds of attacks the bleed damage could start to add up, but one heal and it's back down to zero again...
It's what I do, I'm a downer. :)
Honestly though you are trying to build a super weapon for a 20th level game. This is an extremely difficult thing to do especially when we have no idea about the type of game or the character who's using it.
Has your Magi gone down the intimidate route? Then Cruel & Ominous are AWESOME.
Or are you fighting creatures with tricks to force a miss chance on you (invisibility/blur/etc.) then Limining is an excellent choice at any level.
Maybe you are in a horror campaign filled with incorporeal creatures (and arcane casters who can get the incorporeal ability) then Ghost Touch is just vital.
Really there is no right answer once you get past +x spell Storing and Keen. Everything else is situational.
Honestly though you are trying to build a super weapon for a 20th level game. This is an extremely difficult thing to do especially when we have no idea about the type of game or the character who's using it.
Fair enough. And on the plus side I can always get everything else and delay deciding on those last 2 points on the weapon until I know more about the campaign and the kinds of villains we'll be facing at higher levels.
Has your Magi gone down the intimidate route? Then Cruel & Ominous are AWESOME.
Or are you fighting creatures with tricks to force a miss chance on you (invisibility/blur/etc.) then Limining is an excellent choice at any level.
Maybe you are in a horror campaign filled with incorporeal creatures (and arcane casters who can get the incorporeal ability) then Ghost Touch is just vital.
So far we've fought mostly humanoids with a few aberrations thrown in. We're doing (I believe, not sure and I've done my best to avoid spoilers and metagame knowledge) Shattered Star or Sinful Shard. We're gathering magical crystals of power from an ancient civilization. Anyhoo, I have a feeling aberrations will defitely become more and more prevalent, not sure about anything else just yet.
Really there is no right answer once you get past +x spell Storing and Keen. Everything else is situational.
*nod* It irks me, but I'm starting to come to the same conclusion. Still, I appreciate all the help. It can be just as important to know what *not* to go after as it is to know what to seek out. :)
Slap on dispelling burst. Though personally I prefer the +2d6 damage, dispelling burst will be more helpful (like when the Evil God Wizard starts casting force walls to BS you.)
That's when I bust out my Dimension Door! hehe
But yeah, given the nature of our long-term goal, it feels like it's only a matter of time before we start facing God Wizards, actually, so Dispelling Burst may win out in the end.
A lightsaber whose blade you can extend to one mile in length in the flash of an instant and vice versa. most epic magus weapon ever.
Gin Ichimaru?
Now what do you mean by Gunblade & What is your overall build?
But my Magi typically run with a +5 Weapon and then I use the Arcane Pool for the rest. Or when I am gonna Nova I switch off to a +4 Spell Storing Version.
Though honestly I rarely Nova so I sometimes forget that sword.
Now what do you mean by Gunblade & What is your overall build?
My overall build is a non-archtype SG-focused dervish dance magus. Aside from SGs my spell loadout will likely focus in self-buffs and mobility spells. At mid- to high-levels he'll have access to some powerful summon monster spells (the equivalent of SM VII, VIII, and IX.)
Our campaign is an Eberron/Homebrew hybrid, and our group owns and has been slowly repairing an airship (it can currently sail the oceans, and is nearly ready to take to the sky!) The airship bit is in response to a direct request to the DM by me. I've always wanted to play an air pirate. :)
Since airships were going to be involved, I built my magus with a strong interest in engineering as well. He's got a maxed Knowledge (Engineering) skill to help run/repair the airship, along with Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft of course, since airships in Eberron are plenty magical. To go along with that I decided I wanted an engineery weapon that he could build/upgrade himself, and since Eberron is a campaign that allows for firearms, I decided on a gunblade.
The gunblade uses scimitar stats for the blade portion. I forget what the exact gun was I modeled the gun part after, but it's not a Final Fantasy gunblade, the pistol portion operates as a pistol, and serves as my magus' ranged weapon when he needs one. :)
But my Magi typically run with a +5 Weapon and then I use the Arcane Pool for the rest. Or when I am gonna Nova I switch off to a +4 Spell Storing Version.
I chose to split up the enhancement bonus mainly because I wanted to be able to make use of Bane Blade at level 15. When it activates it not only grants +2d6 damage, but bumps up the weapon's enhancement to +7, and the unique ability of the magus allows me to basically pick the correct version of Bane every time. Heck, if necessary I can even swap banes out mid-combat.
So I need Bane from the arcane pool, and I need Spell Storing as an actual enchant. Since I can't have Spell Storing without putting at least a +1 enhancement bonus on the weapon itself, that's one point of enhancement at the least to go on the blade.
From there it came down to what enchantments I may want that aren't available through the arcane pool. :)
If you are a dex magus agile is still a very worthwhile enhancement for a +1. I would skip keen altogether unless you really see yourself needing it over simply taking the feat or using the pool for it.
I am indeed a dex magus, but went the dervish dance route. I didn't want to wait until I could afford a +2 weapon to be able to use my dex with my weapon. As it was I was able to put dex to hit right off through Weapon Finesse, then add damage a couple levels later.
My current plan is to use the pool for keen. Feats are at a premium in my build, so taking Improved Critical isn't really workable. Especially since there aren't any really great enchants that I could pick up with the extra +1 in any case. I'm already having trouble filling the 10 plusses I have! :p
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Instead of Holy or Dispelling Burst, you could put Dispelling and Heartseeker. Mathwei made a good point about Dispelling Burst only on confirmed crits, and Heartseeker allows you to ignore mischances on a lot of things (no outsiders plants oozes or elementals sadly). Still you can dispel magic with dispelling and you can ignore blur/displacement/invisibility (If you know where the square is).
Umm Bane is free.
All the other special ability arcanas just add the effect to the list. Bane Blade adds it to the weapon, meaning it doesn't consume any enhancement bonus.
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Umm Bane is free.
All the other special ability arcanas just add the effect to the list. Bane Blade adds it to the weapon, meaning it doesn't consume any enhancement bonus.
1.)I doubt that a GM will buy that (susceptible to GM fiat).
2.)Major Cheese right there but you are technically correct. It just costs an additional arcane pool point.
It requires level 15 for a reason.
Bane is added to the weapon automatically. Nothing in its description leads me to believe it doesn't still count as a +1 enchantment on your blade. You still can't have more than +10 on a non-epic weapon.
It's nice enough as it is, since it doesn't charge you an additional ap point like the other arcanas--which charge an arcana for the priviledge of spending ap to put options on the list, which you then still have to pay yet more ap to use--but to say it also doesn't take up a +1 on the weapon itself is, I think, a bit much. ;)
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Instead of Holy or Dispelling Burst, you could put Dispelling and Heartseeker. Mathwei made a good point about Dispelling Burst only on confirmed crits, and Heartseeker allows you to ignore mischances on a lot of things (no outsiders plants oozes or elementals sadly). Still you can dispel magic with dispelling and you can ignore blur/displacement/invisibility (If you know where the square is).
Heartseeker is nice but if we're worried about concealment I prefer Limning. This will let your entire party ignore concealment on the target instead of just you and also gets past that picking the right square issue as well.
As for landing that first hit to activate the power, well that's what true strike is for.
Bane is added to the weapon automatically. Nothing in its description leads me to believe it doesn't still count as a +1 enchantment on your blade. You still can't have more than +10 on a non-epic weapon.
It's nice enough as it is, since it doesn't charge you an additional ap point like the other arcanas--which charge an arcana for the priviledge of spending ap to put options on the list, which you then still have to pay yet more ap to use--but to say it also doesn't take up a +1 on the weapon itself is, I think, a bit much. ;)
It still cost an ap point.
If you noticed I had 2 weapons one for Spell Storing. Sadly I rarely Nova so it mainly just sits in my Glove of Storing(?). But last I checkedjust so long as the weapon had a +X from any source then you could use AP to add enchantments without needing a +1 from the pool...
If you noticed I had 2 weapons one for Spell Storing. Sadly I rarely Nova so it mainly just sits in my Glove of Storing(?).
I did see that, but I'd prefer not to go that route myself. My magus' weapon--the gunblade--is a part of his RP. He tinkers with it constantly with his engineering, trying to improve it, etc. So my plan is for him to only use alternate weaponry if absolutely necessary.
But last I checkedjust so long as the weapon had a +X from any source then you could use AP to add enchantments without needing a +1 from the pool...
This is very true. But if I go with a full +5 on the weapon, I can't put spell storing on it, and as I mentioned, my goal is not to have alternate weaponry if I can help it. :)
Hmm... That is true...
Maybe flip what you are currently thinking?
I can understand what you are thinking. My Steampunk Magus/Gunslinger I am now playing in our Iron Kingdoms-esque world has a Pistol-Longsword hybrid then a Rifle-Longsword hybrid and those are mainly because he is constantly tinkering with them.
+5 Adamantine Courageous Spell Storing Undead Bane (Weapon).
Justifications:
Courageous, because I like using Heroism.
Spell Storing because I really like it.
Undead Bane because I really hate undead.
... which leaves 2 open from arcane pool. If i'm not feeling lucky, i'll throw Keen on there. If I am feeling lucky, I might go with a Burst enchantment.
The magus ability limits the amount of enhancement bonus you can add to a weapon not the amount of special abilities you can add.
So you can use your arcana pool on a +5 vorpal long sword and give it +5 more special abilities.
The only restriction for the arcana pool and special abilities is that you can't put repeated special abilities on the weapon
Actually it is still limited to a Max of +10 on the weapon last I checked...
It is not.
Really what allows it to go over the Enchanting Limit?
That is for crafting items, not class abilities.
The arcana pool explicitly states that you cannot raise the enhancement bonus over +5, but makes no mention of such a limit for special abilities.
Hmm... Most abilities call out that they can't. Though by strict reading a +5 Weapon wouldn't be modified by it...
A number of GMs in the area don't enforce that rule, but I always prepare in case it is.
As it stands, the ability is only a part of the Arcane Pool, and there's plenty of other things to do with those points.
Hmm... Most abilities call out that they can't. Though by strict reading a +5 Weapon wouldn't be modified by it...
How are you reading that?
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"Bonus (Enhancement)
An enhancement bonus represents an increase in the sturdiness and/or effectiveness of armor or natural armor, or the effectiveness of a weapon, or a general bonus to an ability score. Multiple enhancement bonuses on the same object (in the case of armor and weapons), creature (in the case of natural armor), or ability score do not stack. Only the highest enhancement bonus applies. Since enhancement bonuses to armor or natural armor effectively increase the armor or natural armor's bonus to AC, they don't apply against touch attacks."
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Special abilities are not an enhancement bonus as per the definition of the term.
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"These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon enhancement to a maximum of +5."
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Arcane Pool makes no mention of a limit on special abilities aside from
"Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property’s base price modifier. These properties are added to any the weapon already has, but duplicates do not stack. If the weapon is not magical, at least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before any other properties can be added. These bonuses and properties are decided when the arcane pool point is spent and cannot be changed until the next time the magus uses this ability. These bonuses do not function if the weapon is wielded by anyone other than the magus."
Nowhere does it state any limit on special abilities you can add to the weapon.