Rays and sneak attacks

[Katz]

I've seen people say that you can deal sneak attack damage using rays, without the capstone ability of the Arcane Trickster. Is there anything that says that in the rules?

[Claxon]

Actually the Arcane Trickster's capstone abilities applies to any spell that deals damage. Which means forinstance, fireball. Which is not a precision spell.

Also this FAQ:

Quote:

Sneak Attack: Can I add sneak attack damage to simultaneous attacks from a spell?

No. For example, scorching ray fires simultaneous rays at one or more targets, and the extra damage is only added once to one ray, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.
Spell-based attacks which are not simultaneous, such as multiple attacks per round by a 8th-level druid using flame blade, may apply sneak attack damage to each attack so long as each attack qualifies for sneak attack (the target is denied its Dex bonus or the caster is flanking the target).

—Pathfinder Design Team, 06/19/13

This references nothing to do with the arcane trickster or its abilities.

While I can't find an exact place where it says, Scorching Ray lets you do sneak attack damage, the above should make it obvious. Normally, you can't Sneak Attack without making an attack roll, the Arcane Trickster's ability does exactly that.

[StabbittyDoom]

Rays are treated as weapons. Sneak attack adds damage to weapon attacks. Therefor, sneak attack adds to ray damage.

This faq is relevant to the "rays are weapons" idea. This faq is even more explicit and outright calls rays "weapons". While not mentioned therein, most assume that melee touch attacks follow the same rules.

As Claxon notes, the Arcane Trickster capstone allows you to apply sneak attack to spells that are NOT treated as weapons, such as fireball.

[DeltaOneG]

If you're referring to this:

Surprise Spells wrote:

At 10th level, an arcane trickster can add her sneak attack damage to any spell that deals damage, if the targets are flat-footed. This additional damage only applies to spells that deal hit point damage, and the additional damage is of the same type as the spell. If the spell allows a saving throw to negate or halve the damage, it also negates or halves the sneak attack damage.

then you're missing some of the point.

Rays can be used for regular sneak attack.

Surprise Spells apply not only to rays but any damaging spell such as fireball, lightning bolt, magic missile, disintegrate and a whole host of other iconic spells.

[Claxon]

Also note, that in fact any rogue schmuck with a wand of scorching ray can sneak attack with it provided they meet all the other requirements (within 30ft and the target is denied dex against them).

[Hendelbolaf]

It is generally understood that Rays and other spells and spell like abilities that require an attack roll, melee or ranged, touch or normal, allows sneak attack damage to be added to it.

Here is a quote the core rulebook FAQ that while answering a different question references this issue:

"Sneak Attack: Can I add sneak attack damage to simultaneous attacks from a spell?

No. For example, scorching ray fires simultaneous rays at one or more targets, and the extra damage is only added once to one ray, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.
Spell-based attacks which are not simultaneous, such as multiple attacks per round by a 8th-level druid using flame blade, may apply sneak attack damage to each attack so long as each attack qualifies for sneak attack (the target is denied its Dex bonus or the caster is flanking the target).

—Pathfinder Design Team, 06/19/13"

There are other specific FAQ quotes that deal with Rays and how they interact with effects and feats and such:

"Ray: Do rays count as weapons for the purpose of spells and effects that affect weapons?

Yes. (See also this FAQ item for a similar question about rays and weapon feats.)

For example, a bard's inspire courage says it affects "weapon damage rolls," which is worded that way so don't try to add the bonus to a spell like fireball. However, rays are treated as weapons, whether they're from spells, a monster ability, a class ability, or some other source, so the inspire courage bonus applies to ray attack rolls and ray damage rolls.

The same rule applies to weapon-like spells such as flame blade, mage's sword, and spiritual weapon--effects that affect weapons work on these spells.

—Sean K Reynolds, 07/29/11"

and

"Weapon Specialization: Can you take Weapon Specialization (ray) or Improved Critical (ray) as feats? How about Weapon Specialization (bomb) or Improved Critical (bomb)?

All four of those are valid choices.

Note that Weapon Specialization (ray) only adds to hit point damage caused by a ray attack that would normally deal hit point damage; it doesn't increase ability score damage or drain (such as the Dexterity drain from polar ray), penalties to ability scores (such as from ray of enfeeblement) or drain, negative levels (such as from enervation), or other damage or penalties from rays.

—Sean K Reynolds, 10/22/10"

Hope that helps!

[StabbittyDoom]

Claxon wrote:

Also note, that in fact any rogue schmuck with a wand of scorching ray can sneak attack with it provided they meet all the other requirements (within 30ft and the target is denied dex against them).

Well, any rogue shmuck with decent UMD (or 1 rank and some luck).

[Katz]

Alright, thanks for the help, guys!