Spell Compendium / Magic Item Compendium, balance in PF core game?


Advice


I'm running a mostly core only PF campaign at the moment, but these WotC re-releases caught my eye. I kind of missed the 3.x era but I am told there was a lot of power creep and bloat towards the end. How will it likely effect my campaign if I were to allow these books?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

That's actually an extremely good question. I've recently gotten my hands on the re-released SC, and I was wondering the same thing. Dotting this, to see if anyone has an educated response.


the items shouldn't be a problem.

The spells need to be evaluated to see if they are still of the correct power-level and cost (some cost XP)


Most of the items are fine, but you do need to double check that some of them don't work based off old mechanics. For example, there may be an item that gives a paladin +10 damage on smite attacks, in 3.5 he only got to make x number of attacks per day which made the item balanced, in PF it gives him +10 damage as a flat bonus, which is less balanced.

A lot of the weapon enchantments are very cool, useful, balanced, and flavorful, the only real problem with them is that they aren't part of teh OGL which is why most of them aren't already in PF.

I also really like the spells, but the same thing applies. Myself, I rule that if there is a PF version of any spell, you must use the PF version.

Liberty's Edge

The compendiums weren't balanced back in 3.5, much less in Pathfinder (though spell compendium was the bigger of the two offenders). I wouldn't allow them any where near my game.


I asked this same question a while back just before running a Kingmaker Campaign (my first Pathfinder Campaign).

For MiC, the general response was that the items were generally fine, but you would have to recalculate the costs on certain types of items.

SC was a bit trickier, and in the end came down to talking with your group on a spell by spell basis. For example, in my group we now allow Primatic Ray (with minor Poison changes), but not Blockade.

But then there is a freind who allows anything in his campaigns. AD&D, 3.0, 3.5, Pathfinder. He claims he rarely has problems. I'm not sure if I believe him. :)

Sovereign Court

Those books contained the absolute "best" stuff. Better then anything else available anywhere. I'd say probably half of the silly CASTORZ-IZ-BETT4R blathering that goes on with the internet forums comes from those books.

Over powered and under priced. Unless your running a game in the Forgotten Realms I'd keep them safely away from your campaign.


I might just pick the books up and go case by case then...


I have actually used both books in campaigns I've ran, and campaigns I've run in. I have honestly had more balance issues with spells and items from the Pathfinder books than I have had with spells/items from the spell compendium/magic item compendium. Obviously a few things need to be adjusted, and you need to use your own judgement on what is or isn't too powerful.


I would definitely go case by case, particularly with the Spell Compendium. I added it to a 3.5 campaign without edits and came to regret it. It adds a lot of spells to pretty much every class. For wizards and sorcerers, that's not necessarily a problem since they manage a list of "known" spells, but for clerics and druids, it was like giving a wizard PC a big, fat spellbook for free and that was a noticeable increase in power.

There are also problematic spells in general like phantasmal assailants. It's a 2nd level spell that does 8 points of Wisdom damage and 8 points of Dexterity damage (half on a fort save after a will save). Sure, it has 2 saves but that's a lot of damage for a 2nd level spell to dish out. There are higher level spells that do less damage in the same book over a longer period of time. Its original format in Complete Arcane did half that damage.

Then there are convention breakers like the orb spells that give wizards and sorcerers a pretty strong end-run around spell resistance (which they really don't need to have) and just plain weird spells like the vortex of teeth so the druid can do force damage in a wide radius with a hole in the middle (where he and 3 buddies can sit safe and sound). Overall, I find it a mixed bag as a source of goodies - some are good, some are bad.

Silver Crusade

I'd allow them as GM-only books. Personally I use the MIC to liven up our magic item finds, and definitely on a case-by-case basis. In no way would I allow characters to begin creating items from this book.

The physical descriptions and unique utility of some of the items make them very refreshing loot for players who've "seen it all."

Don't use the SC as Pathfinder has way too many spells already, including ones considered by many broken. Don't need any more, and you'd have to decide if each spell would fall into a particular caster's repertoire, such as magus, witch, etc.

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