Humans, faster learner feat, eclecticfeat

[poundpuppy30]

Does this mean that a human who has two classes and both these feats gets a +1hp and +1skill per level each time he levels in either class? Plus the +1 to skill for being a human?

[Mal-Duroth]

That is exactly what that means. You can also take an alternate benefit in place of either bonus.

[Troubleshooter]

Ironically, in a burst of inspiration I checked to see if it could be interpreted such that you could select an alternate class reward with both of your favored class points. Instead I convinced myself that it could be interpreted to say that you can choose one alternate class reward instead of both the hit point and skill point.

I don't really like the way that's written.

[Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan]

Toughness > Fast Learner no matter how you slice it.

Fast Learner allows you to gain both, in a favored class, but Toughness effectively does too. It gives you a HP, and then you can choose the skill point, and not just with a favored class do you get the HP.

Additonally, Toughness is a prereq for some other things, and gives 3HP even before you have 3 levels.

Take Toughness, and not Fast Learner.

Be a Half Elf instead of taking Eclectic.

My 2 cents.

[Loup Blanc]

But Zahir, you could take both, meet prereqs, get an extra net 2 hp per level in a favored class, and 2 extra skill points per level in a favored class!

[thejeff]

Loup Blanc wrote:

But Zahir, you could take both, meet prereqs, get an extra net 2 hp per level in a favored class, and 2 extra skill points per level in a favored class!

That is pretty much the only case where it makes sense to take Fast Learner - You're also taking Toughness. Or as a prereq for something.

The combination of the feats gives you +2hp and +1sp per level in your favored class. Then another sp just for being human.

The only question is which order to take them in. Toughness front loads the first couple hp, so it's nice to take it at 1st level. Fast Learner doesn't appear to be retroactive, so you really want to take it from the beginning. OTOH, there's a pretty clear overall design intent that all such abilities be retroactive, so I'd allow it to be.
I'd also allow you to take any 2 of (hp,sp, alternate bonus), which isn't strictly supported by the text, but might bring a mediocre feat up to decent.

[Diego Rossi]

Fast learner is retroactive. For simplicity sake all the changes in a character that give more hp, skill points or languages are retroactive.
It has been explained a couple of times by the game developers that they don't want to force people to keep track of the level at which they have got a benefit.
Even when retraining a feat you can swap it with a feat that you can take at your current level, regardless of the level at which you have taken the feat that you are swapping away.

- * -

As I read it, you can take either the +1 skill point and +1 hit point or a alternate benefit, but the alternate benefit substitute both the +1 skill point and +1 hit point.

[Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan]

Diego Rossi wrote:

As I read it, you can take either the +1 skill point and +1 hit point or a alternate benefit, but the alternate benefit substitute both the +1 skill point and +1 hit point.

I believe it clearly reads this way. It's an all or nothing thing.

[Diego Rossi]

Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:

Diego Rossi wrote:

As I read it, you can take either the +1 skill point and +1 hit point or a alternate benefit, but the alternate benefit substitute both the +1 skill point and +1 hit point.

I believe it clearly reads this way. It's an all or nothing thing.

There is a few people that think the opposite. If that was true I would almost always take it with classes that choose one of the alternate benefits, like the magus. It would give a lot of versatility.

Even more so if we follow the principle (that I think is one of the Pathfinder paradigm) that the benefits are retroactive.

[Mal-Duroth]

Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:

Diego Rossi wrote:

As I read it, you can take either the +1 skill point and +1 hit point or a alternate benefit, but the alternate benefit substitute both the +1 skill point and +1 hit point.

I believe it clearly reads this way. It's an all or nothing thing.

That wouldn't make any sense though. You could substitute an alternate benefit without taking taking Fast Learner and get exactly same thing.

I really hate the way it's worded, too confusing.

[Diego Rossi]

Mal-Duroth wrote:

Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:

Diego Rossi wrote:

As I read it, you can take either the +1 skill point and +1 hit point or a alternate benefit, but the alternate benefit substitute both the +1 skill point and +1 hit point.

I believe it clearly reads this way. It's an all or nothing thing.

That wouldn't make any sense though. You could substitute an alternate benefit without taking taking Fast Learner and get exactly same thing.

I really hate the way it's worded, too confusing.

It give you nothing if you take an alternate benefit.

It work only if you take one of the base benefits.