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Finished 2 archetype ideas.
Mage Hammer
Though most of the magi choose to embrace the sword and spell, some revere the hammer. Known as the Mage Hammers, these elite warriors know that the hammer is mightier then the sword, and are adept at forcing foes with thunderous strikes.
Massive Hammer:At 1st level, a Mage Hammer gains the ability to wield any 2 handed martial or simple weapon in one hand with a -2 penalty on all attacks made with the weapon. If this is used with spell combat, the Mage Hammer gains a +2 on concentration checks to cast defensively. This bonus stacks with other bonuses applied through increasing penalties to the attack roll.
ThunderStrike:At second level, a Mage Hammer learns the way of the hammer and thunder. While wielding a one handed or 2 handed bludgeoning weapon with spellstrike, he may expend a number of points from his arcane pool equal to half the spell level (minimum one) to change the spell damage into sonic damage. This also gives the spell the sonic descriptor. As a result of his extensive training with bludgeoning weapons, if he spellstrikes with a weapon that can't (or is not currently) do bludgeoning damage, he takes a -5 penalty on the attack roll. This ability otherwise functions as a magus's spellstrike.
Arcana:The Mage Hammer has access to the following magus arcana. He may not take any arcana listed here more then once.
Force of the Hammer:You may expend one or more points of your arcane pool as a free action, to allow any bludgeoning weapon he wields to do force damage. This does not modify the type of damage any spell he spellstrikes with. This effect lasts for one minute per point expended.
Cleaving Blow:A Mage Hammer with this arcana gains Cleave as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites, yet may only use it with a bludgeoning weapon. Furthermore, a Mage Hammer may take the cleave feat without needing to meet the prerequisite. A Mage Hammer with the Cleave feat and this arcana may use his ThunderStrike to effect all foes that he hits with the Cleave feat.
2-Handed Magus
Though most Magi choose to use a blade in one hand and a spell in the other, The 2-handed Magus realizes that the biggest of blades, do the best of damage. Masters of both hands, They learn to fight with the heaviest weapons they can get their hands on.
Heavy Weapons:A 2-handed Magus doesn't need a free hand to cast spells, even if they have a somatic component, if both his hands are on his weapon. He must have a free hand to cast spells if he does not have his free hand on the same weapon as his primary hand. At 2nd level, a 2-handed Magus becomes more effective at wielding a weapon with 2 hands then with one. He takes a -2 penalty to his DC if he attempts to cast a spell with a light or one handed weapon in one hand and cast a spell with his other, yet gains a +2 bonus to the DC of his spell if he casts with both hands on a one or two handed weapon. At 10th, 15th, and 20th level, the penalty and bonus increases by 2.
SpellStrike:A 2-handed Magus gets this ability at first level, but may only use it when wielding a weapon in 2 hands. This ability replaces Spell Combat.
Arcana:A 2-handed Magus gains a magus arcana at 2nd, 5th, 11th, and 14th level. A 2-handed Magus has access to the following Magus Arcana. He may not take any of the following Arcanas more then once.
Heavy Spell:This allows a Magus to either add one half his intelligence modifier to the DC of his spells in addition to his full modifier, or to add one and one half his intelligence modifier to the damage of his spells. This decision must be made each time he casts a spell, and he may choose to not apply this bonus to his spells. He must have all his hands on a weapon or free to use this ability. A Magus must be at least 5th level and posses the 2-handed assault arcana to select this arcana.
2-handed assault:This allows a Magus to apply 1 and 1/2 his intelligence modifier to damage rolls with any 2-handed weapon. He must have all his hands on his weapon to benefit from this.
*in comparison to other Magi
Finished 2 archetype ideas.
** spoiler omitted **...
Forgive me for being blunt--do not take it as discourtesy, only honesty.
These archetypes are pointless.
The Mage Hammer does nothing to make blunt weapons worthwhile. The entire reason blunt weapons are not useful to a Magus right now is that there are no blunt weapons with extended threat ranges.
When a Magus chooses a weapon, there is one and only one thing to consider: threat range. The only thing keeping a non-hexcrafter Magus useful and viable is the ability to crit with a spell on a 15. That's it. Any archetype that gives up that ability better do something truly amazing.
The Mage Hammer instead gives people who like big weapons but don't understand/care about math a better (i.e. shorter) dip option than the Titan Mauler for using an oversized weapon one-handed. However, all it does for real Magi is tempt them into penalty. The damage of a Magus' weapon is irrelevant compared to the damage of the spell is carries with it. 2d4 or 1d10 vs. 1d6 means very little in the long run, when you're dropping 10d6 shocking grasps or 1d6+CL frostbites.
Thunderstrike feels lackluster. It's too many arcana to bypass immunities. Do you face a lot of enemies immune or resistant to both electricity and cold?
Force of the Hammer is cute, but it only really helps against DR and Incorporeal enemies (no enemy is vulnerable to force, for example). However, since it doesn't change the spell, the real damage (i.e. the spell damage) either doesn't care about the DR anyway or it still counts as corporeal and thus deals 1/2.
Cleaving Blow feels like it was written for the Monk. It does not work with its own class's features. Cleave is a standard action. Spellcombat is a full round action. You cannot cast a spell and cleave in the same round. Likewise, you can't cast a touch spell and then take the free touch with your hammer while cleaving, because the spell cast is then the standard action. This ability only works if you cast the spell on the round before you cleave. Pathfinder is rocket tag and the base magus plays it very well. Spending a round charging up this special move is just never going to be worth it.
If I'm not mistaken, the two-handed magus, uh, does nothing. The problem with using a two-handed weapon as a Magus is that you can't spell combat with it. This archetype removes spell combat. Why would I bother taking it then? I can do exactly what this archetype does at its core without taking it. I can just use a big two-handed weapon, spellstrike through it, and just never use Spell Combat.
The arcana are amazing, of course. Except that without spell combat, you're just playing either a fighter type with 3/4 BAB or an Eldritch Knight with crappy spells. Adding your Int to damage isn't enough to fix that.
If you want to make blunt weapons attractive to a magus, you need to either raise the threat range of blunt weapons or allow a blunt magus to use the crit multiplier of his blunt weapon. Non-hexcrafter Magi (and even most of those, too) are crit-fishers at heart. Without crits, Magi are weak.
To make a two-handed Magus work, you need to find a way to make spellcombat work with a two-hander. I'm not sure it can, because a two-handed weapon is so significantly more powerful than a one-hander, it's a giant jump in power.
Any option that loses spell combat, though, is not a fruitful path in my opinion--every direction I take it mentally ends at: play an Eldritch Knight.
Gandalf is, again, exactly the sort of gish the magus isn't. He doesn't keep his hands free. He doesn't use magic with his attacks. He evokes at range and abjures like a proper utility caster.
Lets propose a class just like you describe. At range, he uses blasts. Up close, he fights with a weapon. Out of combat, he uses utility magic.
How could this work?
Even "switch hitters" are ultimately pointless--most realize that staying at range is better in every way, and 90% will find out that when an enemy gets into melee, it's still better to just keep shooting than to spend so many character resources on the ability to draw a melee weapon, too.
If this gish's spells were good enough to be worth using at range (over, say, a bow), then why would they not be good enough to use in melee, too? Or rather, why would they ever get into melee if they could help it when they're so effective from far away?
On the other hand, if weapon combat was better than casting spells, why would you ever bother with them in combat?
All that would happen is that smart players would pick weapons OR casting and focus on that, neglecting the other, or they'd tear themselves in two directions, foolishly splitting their resources and being sucky at both tasks.
That pushes the gish concept in two directions:
1) A character that can cast spells while fighting with a weapon
2) A character who casts utility spells out of combat, but fights with a weapon otherwise--also known as an Eldritch Knight, which we already have. The sole gain in making it a full class is the ability to do it fully from levels 1-5 (well, 2, now with the right race).
And that, my friend, is why we have the Magus and not "the Gish."
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So blunt weapons need something besides threat range to be viable. How about this:
Spell Combat using a blunt weapon allows attacks to target touch AC, but the weapon damage is halved unless the attack hits the target's normal AC.
Honestly I think one people are forgetting is that the Magus, unlike his other melee counterparts, have a HUGE advantage when it comes to gear. When you building a hypothetical situtation, it isn't readily obvious, but unless your game has a MAGIC-ITEMS-R-US in every single back hole town, your party will probably not have top notch gear. And when they do, they are dependent on the GM to give them enough gold to buy things. I have seen more than a few games where you really don't the good stuff till MUCH later and people blow all their gold on stuff about their level. The thing with the Magus though is that they can afford to cut some of the money that would go to their weapon because they can just enchant it when they need to on the fly for free (and for the bladebound magus they pretty much have a free enchanted weapon that scales with them from lvl 1). So the money the fighter is spending to get a +5 enhancement on his greatsword the magus can instead spend on giving his armor some fun enchantments, or buying some nice rings and magical knicknacks, or giving his weapon other enchantments that are "nice to have" but are lower on the priority scale due to budget (why not make your scimitar vorpal just because?)
@Gherrick
The problem isn't just restricted to blunt weapons, though they are the most obvious weapon group since (afaicr)all blunt weapons have poor crit ranges. It also extends to slashing and piercing weapons with high crit multipliers and low crit ranges.
For instance a handaxe (d6 damage, 20/x3) is a very poor weapon for the typical magus compared to a scimitar (d6 damage, 18-20/x2)even before you take dervish dance into account because spellstrikes only double on crits no matter what the multiplier of the weapon is. Since most magi rely on Spellstrikes to do damage, crit fishing is very popular.
How would people feel about a feat or a magus arcana that let you apply your weapon's critical hit multiplier to spellstrikes? Too good?
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Personally, I don't like Magus' (I don't think Magi is proper when referring to the Class?), because in my experience and also in my opinion, they are too strong, and are designed to break the action economy too much. I rally question the idea people have mentioned about the Magus running out of spells, (how?). Like my experience with the Summoner (built correctly and legally), it just stands out as a lot stronger than everyone else, even when not optimized. I don't have an issue with the theme/flavor of the class, but I do think it needs to be nerfed a bit.
How would people feel about a feat or a magus arcana that let you apply your weapon's critical hit multiplier to spellstrikes? Too good?
Then it'd become a choice for Magi between Scimitar + Dervish Dance or Falcata + that feat. Still too limited.
I'm not sure if the scimitar or the falcata would be the superior weapon - my dpr math skills are too limited to do the actual math.
The falcata can't be used with Dervish Dance so it would be a boost to the strength magus.
All that said, I agree that it's still too limited. Hm...
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@mplindustries:you make a good point. I forgot that cleave takes a standard action, its been a while since I used it. The bludgeoning weapon archetype does need a way to expand threat ranges. what about instead of cleaving blow you take
bladed hammer:You become incredibly accurate with bludgeoning weapons. You now wield it as if it were the most precise of blades, and so you now treat any bludgeoning weapon as if it had an 18-20 threat range.
or maybe just have the enhanced critical apply to spells, or
Critical spellYour spells strike harder then most, and as a result, your spell multiplier in spellcombat and spellstrike is equal to your weapons multiplier.
This covers the threat range problem with bludgeoning weapons. And, to answer your question, when a guy in the party becomes known for delivering massive damage with electric and cold damage, we do run into a lot of things that are resistant/immune to electric and cold damage.
As for the 2-handed archetype, I was attempting to make a magus archetype that encouraged a build OTHER then two weapon fighting. I realize I didn't do much to replace spell combat. What if instead of spell combat, you get something that lets you full-attack spellstrike? or something to allow you to increase the spell critical multiplier? These archetypes were in response to a previous post of someone looking for 2-handed magus archetypes and bludgeoning weapons archetypes, and high multiplier weapon archetypes. I haven't figured out the high multiplier weapon yet, but these are 2 rough drafts.
I rather think making spellcombat work with 2h weapons is not a great idea. If that happens, you have the same thing as before, but with bigger weapons. You have everyone running around with one nice 2-handed weapon and casting shocking grasp on the off hand. This just means that people will build magi with strength that 2-hands scimitars and still does the same thing, Magi with shocking grasp and scimitars.
@Noireve:Magi have got a huge advantage when it comes to gear, that isn't a problem. I am adressing the so called problems that people have with magi (A.K.A. cookie cutter magi that dervish dance shocking grasp scimitars).
Perhaps an arcana like this:
Precise Strike: When using your arcane pool to enchant a weapon, you can decrease the crit multiplier (min x2) to increase the threat range (max 18-20) of the enchanted weapon.
This still doesn't address the issues that some weapons are clearly better than others, but I don't know if there is a way to truly address that without a complete weapon overhaul.
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I don't like the magus because it's almost exactly what I'm not looking for in a gish.
I want to drop one or two spells and then go into melee like a cleric or druid with an arcane list. I don't want a bias towards blasts, especially touch blasts. I have a weapon for dealing single target damage at short range, that's why I'm a gish. I want the BFCs and long range blasts and the basic utilities that you miss out on without a wizard, or at least those are 6th level or lower.
Essentially I want the Eldritch Knight as a 6 level 3/4 BAB class. Oh, and I think sorcerers make better gishes thematically because they're an intuitive class (third column on CRB table 7-1) and therefore have more time to study physical combat than a wizard (fifth column on CRB table 7-1).
This is personal preference, not game mechanics.
My kensai does exactly what you are asking for the majority of the time. The bonus from spell combat is, I can buff while fighting.
I think the Magus is a bit too... Focused.
The cookie-cutter variation is depressingly common because Dervish Dance is so damn good and so damn specific.
The problem is not that Dervish Dance is too good. If that were the case fighters and barbarians would be taking it.
The problem is, all better options are denied the magus.
This is a problem people have with casters in general. The solution is that nearly every full caster gets spells that increase base ability scores by 4 for minutes/level. This means that a Dervish Dancing Magus could simply cast cats grace and hang out with fighters of the same level for 16 minutes at level 16.
My Kensai stopped using cat's grace at level 7, when he picked up a +4 stat belt. They do not stack.
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The problem is not that Dervish Dance is too good. If that were the case fighters and barbarians would be taking it.
The problem is, all better options are denied the magus.
I don't think the problem is that Dervish Dance is too good - it's a very good feat but it's not overpowered. I actually really like Dervish Dance because it makes the "duelist" that fights with a sword in one hand and nothing in the other playable. Instead I think the problem is that Dervish Dance is too specific in that it only affects scimitars. The problem is that Dervish Dance catapults the scimitar (who is already a viable weapon for strength-focused magi as well) into, by far, the best weapon for a dexterity focused magus.
If Dervish Dance was modified to work with all 1h finessable weapons instead of just scimitars you'd see a lot more variation for magi since suddenly all the finesse weapons benefit equally. The rapier especially would get a significant boost.
It would also mean that dervish dance magi had less problems when they encounter enemies that have DR: Slashing, since they can then have the option to swap to a light mace, or a rapier.
All that said, I find it unlikely that Dervish Dance will be improved outside of the mythic rules.
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I don't like the magus because it's almost exactly what I'm not looking for in a gish.
I want to drop one or two spells and then go into melee like a cleric or druid with an arcane list. I don't want a bias towards blasts, especially touch blasts. I have a weapon for dealing single target damage at short range, that's why I'm a gish. I want the BFCs and long range blasts and the basic utilities that you miss out on without a wizard, or at least those are 6th level or lower.
Essentially I want the Eldritch Knight as a 6 level 3/4 BAB class. Oh, and I think sorcerers make better gishes thematically because they're an intuitive class (third column on CRB table 7-1) and therefore have more time to study physical combat than a wizard (fifth column on CRB table 7-1).
Look into some of the 3pp stuff here.I seem to recall something like what you are talking about.
My Kensai stopped using cat's grace at level 7, when he picked up a +4 stat belt. They do not stack.
So now he can buff other stats like strength or intelligence and have temporary higher spell DCs/Weapon damage. You there are important stats to buff other than dex.
I don't think the problem is that Dervish Dance is too good - it's a very good feat but it's not overpowered. I actually really like Dervish Dance because it makes the "duelist" that fights with a sword in one hand and nothing in the other playable. Instead I think the problem is that Dervish Dance is too specific in that it only affects scimitars. The problem is that Dervish Dance catapults the scimitar (who is already a viable weapon for strength-focused magi as well) into, by far, the best weapon for a dexterity focused magus.
If Dervish Dance was modified to work with all 1h finessable weapons instead of just scimitars you'd see a lot more variation for magi since suddenly all the finesse weapons benefit equally. The rapier especially would get a significant boost.
It would also mean that dervish dance magi had less problems when they encounter enemies that have DR: Slashing, since they can then have the option to swap to a light mace, or a rapier.
All that said, I find it unlikely that Dervish Dance will be improved outside of the mythic rules.
Why not just make Dervish dance work with all finessable weapons? light weapons (like the light mace) would benefit from this as well. Also, weapons like the elven curve blade would become more viable 2h weapons.
Seems to me like the main problem people have with the Magus is that it is most often played like a fast melee damage dealer, sometimes going nova ona boss, and this makes all magi look alike to some people.
Personally, I like the Magus. It's a very versatile class, offering excellent options for tanking (through the myrmidarch archetype) and damage (through almost everything else) and it seems quite viable for archery if combined with the arcane archer (though I haven't tried that option yet).
The only problem I see with the class is that the most acknowledged damage build has little staying power in the long run and leaves the Magus looking like a self-buffing rogue. The lack of use of the options is the problem, not really the class at all :-)
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OK, I finished the High Critical Multiplier archetype. Again, I doubt I can playtest this, and it is just a rough draft.
Many Magi choose to use delicately balanced blades, yet the Critical Magus chooses to wield a heavier weapon. Known as Critical Magi, these warriors strike harder, and swifter than most opponents, to the displeasure of their foes.
Arcane Pool:A critical magus can expend a number of points from his arcane pool at 1st level to extend the critical threat range of his weapon for one minute. This expansion is at a 1:1 ratio (1 point extends the threat by one, 2 extends by 2 etc.). Unlike most effects, this stacks with all other effects that increase critical threat range. This enchantment also gives the weapon a +1 bonus and if the Critical Magus is at least 5th level, this can count towards other enchantments. This ability can only extend a weapon with a threat range of 20 or 19-20 normally. The maximum extension from this is 18-20. This ability applies before factoring in other factors that increase threat range (like improved critical, keen weapon quality etc.). A Critical Magus can also give any weapon the keen weapon quality (even bludgeoning) through his arcane pool, and is capable of buying weapons like this. This ability is in addition to other abilities granted by the arcane pool class feature.
Critical SpellCaster:When a Critical Magus uses spell combat with a weapon that has a natural* threat range of 20, he may choose to use the critical multiplier of the weapon instead of x2 for the spell. This choice is made after he scores a critical hit with a spell, but before damage is rolled. This ability functions for spellstrike as well. This otherwise functions as spell combat and spellstrike.
Improved Critical:At 5th level, a Critical Magus treats any weapon with a x4 critical multiplier as if he had the improved critical feat for that weapon. At 11th level, this ability extends to weapons with a x3 critical multiplier. At 17th level, this works with all weapons that the Critical Magus wields, even if he isn't proficient with it or it is an improvised weapon, or it has a x2 multiplier. This replaces the bonus feats gained at 5th, 11th, and 17th level.
*before enchantments, class features, and feats
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I've recently noticed that people in my gaming circles hate the magus class. I'm curious why they don't like it though. Magi get the benefits of being full casters that prepare spells (which lets you be versatile) and the benefits of getting martial abilities (like being the only Arcane casters that gain proficiency in heavy armour). Is disliking the magus localized to my game groups (PFS and other), or do others feel the same?
I dont' find them very high on the Survivable list, but as far as being boss killers - OH YEAH. If they get that one full round attack off they can absolutely decimate. Broaden up that critical range, and BOOM comes the pain. I don't really see them as useful for anything else though.
IIRC, wasn't there a 3.5 quality called something like "impact" that was essentially Keen for bludgeon weapons?
Overall, I like it.
I dont' find them very high on the Survivable list, but as far as being boss killers - OH YEAH. If they get that one full round attack off they can absolutely decimate. Broaden up that critical range, and BOOM comes the pain. I don't really see them as useful for anything else though.
My kensai magus was regularly the "tank" of our 3-man group, having easily the highest AC by several points (high dex/int, enchanted darkleaf leather, Shield). He was able to survive one encounter where he had to deal with a horde of summoned (and later hasted) demons that were all but immune to his elemental damage (and color spray, since they were mindless). They could only hit him on a 20, but they were rolling 15+ attacks EVERY round. He eventually outlasted them until they become unsummoned. I doubt another class of comparable level (and limited AOE attacks) would have survived as well.
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My Kensai stopped using cat's grace at level 7, when he picked up a +4 stat belt. They do not stack.So now he can buff other stats like strength or intelligence and have temporary higher spell DCs/Weapon damage. You there are important stats to buff other than dex.
I already have a +2 INT headband at level 7 and I don't use STR. By level 8, I'll have a +4 INT headband.
The options to buff stats with magic are very limited once characters have their +stat items. For a dex build, the only real option is the Elemental Body line of spells, which will require the Eschew Materials feat to continue casting other spells.
The real buffs are spells like Blur, Mirror Image, Fly, Haste, etc.
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The thing that people who keep saying the magus has more money because he doesn't have to buy an enchanted weapon ate forgetting that they have to completely re- buy their armor at 7th and 13th level. Maybe its less of an issue for dex builds but even they would switch to celestial plate at 13 given the opportunity. So yes you have a little more cash but not 50k without the black blade archetype.Yes the armor is a set back, but they also don't need a pearl of power that a lot of high level prepared casters have. And they can recall more spells then most casters with pearls of power. Maybe the cash difference isn't that great, but it still is at least something. especially when you consider the fact that if you buy a chain shirt at level one and save up your money, celestial armor is one of the best light armor in the book IMO.
I dont' find them very high on the Survivable list,
Are you joking? They are an arcane casting class that gets medium and heavy armor proficiency, I think they are the only arcane casting class that does this, and they typically have high dex and shield on top of that. They can survive fairly well, maybe not the best, but fairly well.
I was considering different Arcana for one of my magi, and I came across Spell Blending which actually seemed really cool to me. A magus has access to the utility spells that invalidate the rogue's existence, they can do as much damage as a paladin, and they get area spells and some battlefield control. You can do SO much with the class, are you really mad that someone finally gets to use shocking grasp on a build that isn't a suicide wizard? Grasp is the best spell, you can have more of them any other spell, it's available at first level, and it really doesn't matter later on when you get vampiric touch.
So what if you can't carry a shield, you can freaking cast shield! Every other martial class wants to be able to cast that spell.
Know what other spell you get? Fly. Know what every other class has to waste other resources on? Flight. Only exception is a paladin with the wyrm oath.
I really don't get magus haters, DEX builds and PFS low point buy games aside the class has a ridiculous amount of options.
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I dont' find them very high on the Survivable list, but as far as being boss killers - OH YEAH. If they get that one full round attack off they can absolutely decimate. Broaden up that critical range, and BOOM comes the pain. I don't really see them as useful for anything else though.My kensai magus was regularly the "tank" of our 3-man group, having easily the highest AC by several points (high dex/int, enchanted darkleaf leather, Shield). He was able to survive one encounter where he had to deal with a horde of summoned (and later hasted) demons that were all but immune to his elemental damage (and color spray, since they were mindless). They could only hit him on a 20, but they were rolling 15+ attacks EVERY round. He eventually outlasted them until they become unsummoned. I doubt another class of comparable level (and limited AOE attacks) would have survived as well.
A Qinggong Monk/ Druid could have easily of done the same, actually. Along with Flurry and Colossal IUS damage. ;)
That's actually how our fight against the Barghast went down at level 4 in the depths of thistletop. I stood in the hallway between my valuable allies and the beast. My AC was up at 39 and it could only hit on a crit.
Edit: I'm sure there are plenty of classes+archetypes that can do this kind of stuff without being so MAD :T(or at least the class seems fairly MAD to me.)
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The thing that people who keep saying the magus has more money because he doesn't have to buy an enchanted weapon ate forgetting that they have to completely re- buy their armor at 7th and 13th level. Maybe its less of an issue for dex builds but even they would switch to celestial plate at 13 given the opportunity. So yes you have a little more cash but not 50k without the black blade archetype.Yes the armor is a set back, but they also don't need a pearl of power that a lot of high level prepared casters have. And they can recall more spells then most casters with pearls of power. Maybe the cash difference isn't that great, but it still is at least something. especially when you consider the fact that if you buy a chain shirt at level one and save up your money, celestial armor is one of the best light armor in the book IMO.I dont' find them very high on the Survivable list,Are you joking? They are an arcane casting class that gets medium and heavy armor proficiency, I think they are the only arcane casting class that does this, and they typically have high dex and shield on top of that. They can survive fairly well, maybe not the best, but fairly well.
Yeah dude, totally trolling and joking here. That's what these forums are for.
Anyways, we are rolling with one in our party now(Standard Magus I think, with the Intelligent Black Blade) and going mostly the damage route he's pretty squishy. He does have a +3 mod in dex and int and of course is rolling with the best armor he can right now. If you feel like posting a build(with equipment) that could keep him at his super high damage to enlighten me/him that'd be swell. I'll mention it to him. He doesn't roll with a shield due to casting stuff I believe. I think he has to have a hand free?|
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@Kazumetsa Raijin: He has to have a hand free to cast spells. This isn't a build, but can be effective for having High AC because dex mutagen,he could even just take a one level dip. If he wants to rebuild then this archetype is great for AC. If he doesn't want to rebuild his character then his AC is probably around 17, so he should prepare and cast shield before he goes into melee, which gets him to AC 21. He also could take dodge feat to get +1 to AC. And once the party has enough that he can get this armor for light armor. This will give him AC 19 or if he casts shield AC 23. one higher if he takes dodge.
I believe it is this archetype.
That's actually how our fight against the Barghast went down at level 4 in the depths of thistletop. I stood in the hallway between my valuable allies and the beast. My AC was up at 39 and it could only hit on a crit.
I didn't think 39 AC was possible at level 4, but then I added up all the buffs possible (to my knowledge) with a base Dex/Wis of 16 each. I'm still shocked by this.
AC 39 (41 with Aid Another) (10 + 4 Armor + 2 Def + 6 Dex + 3 Dodge + 4 Natural + 4 Shield + 1 Size + 5 Wis)
Self:
- Feat: Combat Expertise
- Feat: Dodge
- Class Feature: Monk AC Bonus
- Class Feature: Totemic Transformation (Toughness)
- Spell, Druid: Barkskin
- Spell, Druid: Cat's Grace
- Spell, Druid: Owl's Wisdom
- Use Magic Device, Wand: Mage Armor
- Use Magic Device, Wand: Shield
Cleric:
- Spell, Cleric: Shield of Faith
Summoner:
- Spell, Summoner: Haste
- Spell, Summoner: Reduce Person
Any ally:
- Aid Another
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Actually I was strictly a Qinggong Monk at that point.
+4 mod in Dex/Wis. Base AC(and touch AC) of 19. Ring of Protection +1. Dodge Feat for +1. Shield of Faith with it's +2. Mage Armor gives a +4. Barkskin with it's +2. Level 4 Monk Ac Bonus +1(already included with base). Ki Pool per round which is +4 and Full Defense which is +6. Edit: Of course, I couldn't do Anything other than Defend at that point - Which was the best option for the group as they pelted it to death and the Magus smacked it for a Whopping 50 on one turn.
That'd definitely be another way to do it though!
Full Defense which is +6.
The enemy was an idiot then. There was no reason to bother with you when you full defense. You can't even make AoOs while using full defense. He could have just moved around you. Or if it was a 5' wide hallway, then he should have retreated back to an open space rather than hit you. Intelligent foes don't attack things they can only hit on a 20, and they definitely don't bother attacking things that aren't a threat.
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Full Defense which is +6.The enemy was an idiot then. There was no reason to bother with you when you full defense. You can't even make AoOs while using full defense. He could have just moved around you. Or if it was a 5' wide hallway, then he should have retreated back to an open space rather than hit you. Intelligent foes don't attack things they can only hit on a 20, and they definitely don't bother attacking things that aren't a threat.
I believe it was bound to it's room if I remember correctly.
It was either that or our Wizard would have eventually pelted it to death with Magic Missile. I only stepped close enough for it to come out of Invisibility. I'm pretty sure my DM hates my Monk.
I believe it was bound to it's room if I remember correctly.
Unless it was a 5x5 room, it was a stupid creature.
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I believe it was bound to it's room if I remember correctly.Unless it was a 5x5 room, it was a stupid creature.
It was a fairly small room. I think 3x6? Memory is a little fuzzy on that one.
So you're saying if you were that creature, you'd rather be pelted to death instead of at least trying to take a claw/bite/claw on someone?
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Unless it was a 5x5 room, it was a stupid creature.
1.)There are a LOT of stupid creatures in pathfinder.
2.)if the door to the room its bound in is 5ft wide, and there is a tank in the front of it, it would have no choice unless it had a reach/ranged weapon in hand. The magus could have cast a spell into his weapon, acrobatic tumbled to the other side of the creature and dealt a one hit kill. Not sure if this is what happened, but it could have happened.|
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Unless it was a 5x5 room, it was a stupid creature.1.)There are a LOT of stupid creatures in pathfinder.
2.)if the door to the room its bound in is 5ft wide, and there is a tank in the front of it, it would have no choice unless it had a reach/ranged weapon in hand. The magus could have cast a spell into his weapon, acrobatic tumbled to the other side of the creature and dealt a one hit kill. Not sure if this is what happened, but it could have happened.
Nailed it. Thankfully, that was the final hit - Otherwise he probably would have been decimated when that nasty Barghast(bad spelling?) turned around.
Magus hit so hard. It's absolutely awesome.
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Nailed it. Thankfully, that was the final hit - Otherwise he probably would have been decimated when that nasty Barghast(bad spelling?) turned around.
Magus hit so hard. It's absolutely awesome.
1.)Nailed on the stupid or the acrobatics
2.)What race is that magus? I could probably make a build for a magus of that race that does nice damage and has nice AC. also what level?|
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Nailed it. Thankfully, that was the final hit - Otherwise he probably would have been decimated when that nasty Barghast(bad spelling?) turned around.
Magus hit so hard. It's absolutely awesome.
1.)Nailed on the stupid or the acrobatics
2.)What race is that magus? I could probably make a build for a magus of that race that does nice damage and has nice AC. also what level?
1.) Probably both.
2.) Half-elf. I'm sure he would REALLY appreciate it. Level 4 currently.
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OK here is a build
Stats:
STR.10
DEX.18
CON10
INT.17
WIS.10
CHA.10
Feats:
Skill Focus (knowledge[any])
Weapons Finesse
Dodge
Spells Prepared
0th level:varies
1st
Shield(x2)
Shocking Grasp or corrosive touch (x2)
2nd
Elemental Touch
Cats Grace
Attacks:
MWK Rapier +8(1d6+spellstrike)
Dagger +7(1d4)
Longbow +7(1d8)
Pool Strike +7(2d6 elemental)
Spell Combat +5/+6 (spell damage+1d6+spellstrike(optional)
Class features:
Spell Combat
Arcane Pool 5 pts
Spellstrike
Pool Strike Arcana (2d6 elemental touch attack)
Spell Recall
Defense:
AC:19(+4 armor +4 Dex +1 dodge)
Immune:Magic sleep effects
Tactics:
Before combat:
Cast shield on self to raise AC to 23
During combat:
Use combinations spells and pool strike to do damage to foes with touch attacks and melee spellstrike attacks.
Equipment:
Armor= Mithral Chain Shirt
Weapons:MWK Rapier, Dagger, Longbow (20 arrows)
Gear:Magus Kit
Magic Items:You have ~3,996 gold to spend on magic items. Bags of holding, pearls of power, and rings of protection are good to have.
Str.12
Dex.18
Con.10
Int.18
Wis.10
Cha.7
*stats based on 20 PB
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Magus spellstrike should apply to every attack on a full attack, like the 3.5 duskblade, using both the crit rangr and crit multiplier of the weapon.
Magus should also be able to use 2handed weapons and ranged weapons with spellstrike
Arcane Mark is technically a touch ranged cantrip, and you can technically spellstrike/spell combat with Arcane Mark.
It was a fairly small room. I think 3x6? Memory is a little fuzzy on that one.
So you're saying if you were that creature, you'd rather be pelted to death instead of at least trying to take a claw/bite/claw on someone?
I'm saying that if the room was 3x6, it would be impossible to be pelted to death while the monk shielded off the rest of the party. The monk would have to stand in the doorway itself. I could hang out along the door's wall so nobody from behind the monk had line of effect or sight to me and wait. I would never expose myself to the others in the party.
I also find the idea that the Magus used acrobatics to tumble by and one-shot the barghest amazing, considering Magi don't get acrobatics as a class skill and I doubt the only trait I could find that adds it (Rice Runner) would apply in Rise of the Runelords. Barghests have 22 CMD--this was a truly phenomenal roll to tumble in.
Note, though, that I fully believe in the one-shot part, no question. That's the nature of Magi--that kind of swinginess is the point of playing one.
But the Barghest should have been either safe in the room from anyone else attacking it, or he would have been able to get by the monk at other targets. That's all I'm saying.
The short answer really is:
Full Defense is a waste of time in 99% of circumstances, and it's also the only reason that the AC seemed impressive.
Oh, I forgot to add, for big fights, cast cats grace on self for +2 to hit and AC.
Seriously, you have to stop pushing those stat buff spells. Nobody uses them in games where they can be reasonably expected to get stat buffing items because they don't stack. It's a waste of a spell most of the time.
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Seriously, you have to stop pushing those stat buff spells. Nobody uses them in games where they can be reasonably expected to get stat buffing items because they don't stack. It's a waste of a spell most of the time.I'm going to assume you hadn't read the whole reason for that build and tell you, that was for a LOW LEVEL magus build with High AC. At high level, stop casting it. Also, apparently the player was a gambler because he supposedly made the roll to get behind it and spellstrike one hit killed it because
Unless it was a 5x5 room, it was a stupid creature.1.)There are a LOT of stupid creatures in pathfinder.
2.)if the door to the room its bound in is 5ft wide, and there is a tank in the front of it, it would have no choice unless it had a reach/ranged weapon in hand. The magus could have cast a spell into his weapon, acrobatic tumbled to the other side of the creature and dealt a one hit kill. Not sure if this is what happened, but it could have happened.Nailed it. Thankfully, that was the final hit - Otherwise he probably would have been decimated when that nasty Barghast(bad spelling?) turned around.
Magus hit so hard. It's absolutely awesome.
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Magus spellstrike should apply to every attack on a full attack, like the 3.5 duskblade, using both the crit rangr and crit multiplier of the weapon.
Magus should also be able to use 2handed weapons and ranged weapons with spellstrike
Arcane Mark is technically a touch ranged cantrip, and you can technically spellstrike/spell combat with Arcane Mark.
I agree, but this would be a complete rebuild of the magus class. rebuilding classes won't happen until pathfinder 1.5 which is pretty far away from what I can tell. If you have any houserule ideas or archetypes though, I'm sure we'd love to hear them.
@mplindustries: you've had insightful criticism on the other 2 magus archetypes posted here, anything for the
Many Magi choose to use delicately balanced blades, yet the Critical Magus chooses to wield a heavier weapon. Known as Critical Magi, these warriors strike harder, and swifter than most opponents, to the displeasure of their foes.
Arcane Pool:A critical magus can expend a number of points from his arcane pool at 1st level to extend the critical threat range of his weapon for one minute. This expansion is at a 1:1 ratio (1 point extends the threat by one, 2 extends by 2 etc.). Unlike most effects, this stacks with all other effects that increase critical threat range. This enchantment also gives the weapon a +1 bonus and if the Critical Magus is at least 5th level, this can count towards other enchantments. This ability can only extend a weapon with a threat range of 20 or 19-20 normally. The maximum extension from this is 18-20. This ability applies before factoring in other factors that increase threat range (like improved critical, keen weapon quality etc.). A Critical Magus can also give any weapon the keen weapon quality (even bludgeoning) through his arcane pool, and is capable of buying weapons like this. This ability is in addition to other abilities granted by the arcane pool class feature.
Critical SpellStrike:When a Critical Magus uses spell combat with a weapon that has a natural* threat range of 20, he may choose to use the critical multiplier of the weapon instead of x2 for the spell. This choice is made after he scores a critical hit with a spell, but before damage is rolled. This ability functions for spellstrike as well. This otherwise functions as spell combat and spellstrike.
Improved Critical:At 5th level, a Critical Magus treats any weapon with a x4 critical multiplier as if he had the improved critical feat for that weapon. At 11th level, this ability extends to weapons with a x3 critical multiplier. At 17th level, this works with all weapons that the Critical Magus wields, even if he isn't proficient with it or it is an improvised weapon, or it has a x2 multiplier. This replaces the bonus feats gained at 5th, 11th, and 17th level.
*before enchantments, class features, and feats
@mplindustries: you've had insightful criticism on the other 2 magus archetypes posted here, anything for the ** spoiler omitted **...
I'm not seeing what the tradeoff is. You get everything a Magus normally gets and also incredible cosmic power. It seems more like a base Magus Rewrite than an archetype.