Horizon Walker from prestige to archetype?

[Rahnum]

Would changing Horizon Walker to an archetype be over powered?

The character I'm doing this for is a Goliath Urban Ranger. I want to turn him into a master of all terrains both wild and urban.

I've already homebrew balanced the Urban Ranger, so don't go on about how I should change that. We're here for the Horizon Walker.

I'd really love to make Horizon Walker a Archetype. Obviously I need to make it a 20 lvl rather than 10lvl class but i can just gain stuff at lvl 2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20 problem solved

So now that that's out of the way, would making it an archetype be overpowered? and How could i balance it so that the DM might allow it? What are arguments I could use for the change?

[I Hate Nickelback]

Before you go about scheming, ask your DM if he'll even tolerate this change at all.

[Rahnum]

I would but I can't see him in person for another week. And I'm not scheming. I text him that I was planning to do something like this, though i haven't received a text back and I just want to be able to make my case for it, which is what I'm asking help on.

[Rahnum]

No one has any ideas?

[Kiinyan]

Are you replacing all of the ranger abilities with horizon walker abilities, or adding them to the ranger? The horizon walker is a very powerful and interesting prestige class. It doesn't have the sheer power of some, but the versatility and access to dimension door is very good. If you're adding it to the ranger this is stuPid broken, as the ranger is powerful enough. I don't think that the PrC abilities can stand on their own though. They are the support features that really build up character options. Plus it can give pounce a couple times a day for a few feats.

[Rahnum]

Adding them to the ranger, but I plan on going Desert, Swamp, Plane of Water, and forest for mastery

Desert Swamp Plane of water for dominance, so no dimension door, especially when i can just get cape of monteblanc.

I was hoping for a few ways to balance this more for an archetype. And you lost me after "ranger is powerful enough"

My ideas were such that I could create a series of books in the world. Chronicles of Horizon Walker. In total the entire set would cost 110k and it takes an entire level to learn a book. Also these aren't exactly easy to find books. The cost, and waiting time as well as level restrictions, (lvl 2,4,6,8 etc) balance the power I'd be getting a bit more I thought.

I'm not looking to break the game, but I just want to be able to keep progressing Ranger since I could start at lvl 10 ranger, do the full Horizon Walker progression but i'd never be able to use the synergy of camouflage and In Plain Sight with all those new terrains. And that's something I really want to experiment with.

[Dilvias]

You would have to give up something pretty powerful to balance it with ranger now. Options are favored enemy, combat style or magic.

I'd say at least two of the three, perhaps all three.

[Rahnum]

How important is Magic to a ranger? I mean I'd like to keep the spell gravity bow but beyond that I'd be ok with losing magic, but I've never played a ranger with magic before so I don't know how important it is.

[Kiinyan]

The ranger third level spell instant enemy is pretty powerful. The favored enemy bonus rangers get is a huge boost to their damage, and the spell lets them ignore the ability's restriction.

[Dilvias]

Early levels, minor to moderate. It gives access to CLW wands, Gravity Bow (or Lead Blades), and Longstrider is nice.

Later on, spells become more important. Things like Instant Enemy, Greater Magic Fang (for your animal companion) and Find Quarry all really beef up ranger.

[Rahnum]

Any other ideas on Balancing it then? What about my animal companion? Should I give him up? Or any ideas on how I can earn it though some serious effort?

[RJGrady]

The Ranger skeleton and the Horizon walker skeleton are very different, so I don't see an easy way to do this. Honestly, is there some reason you don't just go Ranger -> Horizon Walker?

[Rynjin]

Giving up either Favored Enemy, or your Combat Styles + Magic seems like it would be a good tradeoff for the Horizon Walker abilities.

[RJGrady]

Combat styles + magic would lose nothing at first level. How many masteries and dominances do you gain?

[Rynjin]

RJGrady wrote:

Combat styles + magic would lose nothing at first level. How many masteries and dominances do you gain?

4 Masteries, 3 Dominances, and a "Master of All Lands" as a capstone.

1st Mastery at 2nd, Dominance at 3rd, but to put it into 20th level class terms it could be stretched to First Mastery at 4th (and every 4 levels thereafter) and first Dominance at 6th (and every 4 levels thereafter), with Master of All Lands coming in at 20th.

Ignore the extra Favored Terrains and/or reduce the number of them and it would make a much finer archetype than a PrC IMO.

[Rahnum]

Why I'm going through all this trouble. I had the idea of making a ranger that was a complete terrain master wherever he might be. Balanced Urban ranger combined with Horizon Walker AND Ranger favored terrains? He'd be lord of the terrains both of those in the urban setting and the wilds, possibly planes too.

Rynjin that's genius!

[RJGrady]

I'm not saying the concept is bad, I'm just saying, I don't see an easy way to swap this for that. Essentially, you're just writing a Horizon Walker base class.