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Okay, to make an item out of Mithral you need to pay 500gp per pound. Mithral also cuts the weight of the object in half. So which weight are we suppose to use? The full weight or the weight post conversion to mithral.
I was afraid of that...
The rules contain evidence for both ways of pricing. Mithral cookware is priced using the reduced weight, but there is a spell that requires mithral daggers as a focus, and it specifically says each costs 502gp (which is correct based on the normal daggers weight).
Pricing based on the items original weight is consistent with darkwood, which also reduces an items weight. Darkwood specifically says to use the items normal weight to determine price.
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The rules contain evidence for both ways of pricing. Mithral cookware is priced using the reduced weight, but there is a spell that requires mithral daggers as a focus, and it specifically says each costs 502gp (which is correct based on the normal daggers weight).
Pricing based on the items original weight is consistent with darkwood, which also reduces an items weight. Darkwood specifically says to use the items normal weight to determine price.
Darkwood does...and mithral doesn't. Almost as if they were different things.
There may be some differences of understanding with different designers. The cost of a spell's material component is hardly gospel. If a spell requires a miniature platinum violin worth 200gp, does that mean that all miniature platinum violins cost 200gp?
There is also a widespread 'understanding' of using a minimum weight of 1 pound for calculation purposes, to avoid lightweight mithral weapons being considerably cheaper than masterwork weapons. This is not RAW though.
There can be no such abuse with Darkwood, as you still must pay the masterwork cost as well as the Darkwood cost.
Since these are the only official Paizo mithral objects published (that need the 'price by weight' calculation), they're as 'official' as you can get.
No they aren't. The Wreath of Blades spell requires 4 mithral daggers. The spell says these must cost at least 502gp each. Seeing as how 502gp would be the exact cost of a mithral dagger if you priced it by the original items weight and not the newly reduced weight, the rules contain examples of both pricing methods.
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Since these are the only official Paizo mithral objects published (that need the 'price by weight' calculation), they're as 'official' as you can get.No they aren't. The Wreath of Blades spell requires 4 mithral daggers. The spell says these must cost at least 502gp each. Seeing as how 502gp would be the exact cost of a mithral dagger if you priced it by the original items weight and not the newly reduced weight, the rules contain examples of both pricing methods.
If I'm looking for the prices of weapons made using special materials, I'll check the equipment chapter and check the weapons tables and the special materials section. Maybe even the non-weapon equipment section to get mithral examples.
What I would not do is trawl through spell lists hoping to find the price of various material components.
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And then you'd ask the shopkeeper if he had mithral daggers, and he'd say no. And you'd ask if he had mithral-headed spears, and he'd say something like "Oh, sorry! Fresh out." And so on, and so on, and about the time you asked about mithral-headed glaive-guisarmes, he'd reveal that in fact he had no mithral at all, and he's been completely wasting your time.I disagree.
I go into Ye Olde Rare Metals Shoppe, and see a sign that says, 'Mithral: 500gp per pound'
Brilliant! I'll have a pound of mithral, please!
Certainly sir! That'll be 1000gp.
But the sign says 500gp!
Yeeess...but if it were steel, it'd weigh two pounds!
Rubbish!
Shut that bloody bouzouki up!
And then you'd ask the shopkeeper if he had mithral daggers, and he'd say no. And you'd ask if he had mithral-headed spears, and he'd say something like "Oh, sorry! Fresh out." And so on, and so on, and about the time you asked about mithral-headed glaive-guisarmes, he'd reveal that in fact he had no mithral at all, and he's been completely wasting your time.I disagree.
I go into Ye Olde Rare Metals Shoppe, and see a sign that says, 'Mithral: 500gp per pound'
Brilliant! I'll have a pound of mithral, please!
Certainly sir! That'll be 1000gp.
But the sign says 500gp!
Yeeess...but if it were steel, it'd weigh two pounds!
Rubbish!
Then you go next door to a restaurant filled with vikings, and hear someone ordering a glaive-glaive-glaive-glaive-glaive-glaive-guisame-glaive without the guisarme.
If I'm looking for the prices of weapons made using special materials, I'll check the equipment chapter and check the weapons tables and the special materials section. Maybe even the non-weapon equipment section to get mithral examples.
What I would not do is trawl through spell lists hoping to find the price of various material components.
Of course you wouldn't. But its still a RAW, officially priced mithral item. One that shows that the cost of a mithral item is based on the items original weight.
Combine that with the fact that the only other special material in the core rulebook that also reduces an items weight is priced based on the items original weight, and thats 2 points of precedence in favor of pricing mithral items based on the original weight.
In contrast to that there is only a single instance of pricing mithral items with the reduced weights - the mithral cookware.
Now obviously, one of the things must be wrong. With two things backing it up, I would suggest that the correct pricing for a mithral item is based on the items original weight. Pricing mithral items by using the items original wight just keeps things consistent. Granted, thats not actually necessary, but its probably best.
(There is actually a third special material that halves the items weight. Darkleaf Cloth. However, like mithral, its pricing is vague as well. So whatever method of pricing is used for mithral should apply to darkleaf cloth as well.)
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I contend that required minimum values for material/focus components are only relevant to that spell, and not universally true prices of mithral daggers, miniature platinum violins or black opals.
This make the pricing of spell components an inherently unreliable source.
From an objective point of view, I admit that the text could be understood either way. In such cases it is wise to choose the interpretation that makes sense, not the one that leads to absurdity. If mithral costs 500gp per pound, it is absurd that it costs 1000gp to buy a pound of it.
Further, I was aware of 'mithral pricing' threads after ultimate combat came out (the source for wreath of blades) and before Ultimate Equipment was published. I took the pricing of mithral objects in the later book to be Paizo's official response to the ambiguity.
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If it's armor or weapons, you use the chart that says how much to add. If it's not armor or weapons, I'd say you use the weight of the item after mithral. Just seems to make the most sense to me.
That would make perfect sense.
Unfortunately, although the game would be better for it, there is no weapon-specific entry on the mithral pricing table, leaving only the 500gp/lb for 'other items'.
The solution, of course, is for Paizo to create such an entry, or entries for different weapon categories, like they have for adamantine, cold iron and alchemical silver.
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You're not just paying for the weight of mithral, but for the work involved in forming it to the weapon shape as well.I contend that required minimum values for material/focus components are only relevant to that spell, and not universally true prices of mithral daggers, miniature platinum violins or black opals.
This make the pricing of spell components an inherently unreliable source.
From an objective point of view, I admit that the text could be understood either way. In such cases it is wise to choose the interpretation that makes sense, not the one that leads to absurdity. If mithral costs 500gp per pound, it is absurd that it costs 1000gp to buy a pound of it.
I agree. And the price for 'other items' is 500gp per pound weight of that item. Not what the item would weigh if it were made of something else!
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If it's armor or weapons, you use the chart that says how much to add. If it's not armor or weapons, I'd say you use the weight of the item after mithral. Just seems to make the most sense to me.Shopkeeper! I demand you reduce the price of that sack of potatoes by 50 percent as that would make the most sense to me.
If potatoes are advertised at 500gp per pound, any shopkeeper who tried to charge me 1000gp for one pound of potatoes is going to get a +1, spiked, mithral suppository.