I want to start using a whiteboard too. Did you add a grid to yours?
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Well I understand that.. I'm just more concerned about the execution of it. To go with your example with the footprints... if a PC asked to make a perception check to get more information out of the footprints (just an example), does the DM verbally ask/correct them to make a Knowledge(nature) check? Or does the DM ask the entire party "whomever has the highest Knowledge(nature) bonus can make a Knowledge(nature) check on those footprints"? Or does the DM go ahead with a perception check and tell them they can't get any information out of it?
Uber already answered this and I'll just add: part of DMing is the narrative and interaction with the party - that is, you present what they see and hear and sense, but there is another thing to keep in mind. You are also the game manager and trainer of sorts (for now at least) of all the rules and how things work.
So in the case of skills you should probably go with full offerings - allow perception checks to gain some kind of information, but also instructing them outside of the game as to the correct skill for that kind of check (which would be Survival). You get to do this until they gain some system mastery and then they will start asking to make correct skill checks all on their own. Right now, if they have an alt use of a skill and a good idea, run with it. There is plenty of time for playing hardcore mode later on.
And Uber is right, the best answer at this point to most all questions and "can I try this" is "Yes". Doesn't mean they will succeed, but they can try. If a specific player has a skill closest to what is called for (or the right skill) you can always reward that player over the others without the right skill with a little extra nugget of info over what the others might get for using incorrect skills.
The point being: They are asking questions and trying to use what they have, even if they don't have the "right" skill/tool they still are taking the initiative to be inquisitive and use what they have on their sheet.
THIS IS ALWAYS GOOD.
This was one thing I was sort of confused about during our first session. I wasn't sure what to do when they asked to use a skill check for something that required a different skill. So I ended up making a bunch of secret skill checks for them and kinda made things up to move along.
Basically I get torn between doing what's right by the game rules, and what's right by the players.
I see a DM here who is managing smoothness of play/keeping players engaged for rules accuracy and taking the time to "look everything up". Right now you are doing the right thing if they are having fun and are engaged. What you need to do is just study the rules more outside of the game so you don't have to worry about looking up things while running the game. But it will happen, just takes some time. Once you get the game down you can make things more "legit", which will make you feel more confidant in your overall DMing skill.
There is a key thing to making things up or rulings on the fly: try to be consistent in your rules, even if you think you are running them wrong. If you were running a rule wrong for 4 sessions and figure out the proper rule before session 5, announce the correct usage at the beginning of that next session. That way if you decide to use the rule correctly after having used the rule incorrectly in earlier sessions, there won't be any surprises or inconsistencies for the players.
I'm very proud of my fellow DMs contributing over here. Also reading about the way they go about things for their own games is very educational and shows that you can always learn something new.
Hi all,
I've been really interested in D&D and role-playing games for a *very* long time. Only thing is I've never had the friends or a group of people to actually play them with. So I'm finally trying to start a Pathfinder group with some friends.. it's a small group (4 total, including me). I'll be the DM and there will be 3 characters.
Now, I have a copy of the Core Rulebook, the Gamemastery Guide, and I'll be getting the Bestiary sometime next week. For the most part, my friends seem genuinely interested in playing (already a huge win for me) but now I'm struggling with the next step: how to actually start.
My *main* issue right now is this: Do I start with a published adventure or do I make my own?
Following that, if I were to go with a published adventure, do I pick a module or an adventure path? (Not quite sure on the differences, but the way I understand it is that modules are smaller, and easier to digest in one session) Which would be the best beginning module for 3 *totally new* players and one *totally new* DM?
Is it even smart for beginners to go the homebrew route? Eventually I would like to have my own campaign, so I figured why not just start with it?
So if anyone can shed some light on my questions that would be greatly appreciated! <3
-n0ah
Make love to yourself, for you are now one of the coolest cats around.
Being a dm is kind of a big deal.
Update on session number 2!
We finished the Crypt of the Everflame! We went through the lower level of the crypt this afternoon and did all sorts of combat and what not. This felt like a much smoother session than the first .. for the most part.
The combat was alright, I had to fudge numbers quite a bit during the final boss fight though, otherwise 2 of the 3 PCs would have been dead.
Awesome, glad you got done with it! Congrats on the smoother session.
As far as fudging goes, you'll have to do less and less of that as you get the hang of it. I fudge very rarely because my players are veterans and most of the time their tactics and knowledge of game mechanics keep me on my toes so that they don't obliterate everything in their path.
I added in the damage reduction rule this session (because I forgot about it last session) and it was pretty funny. The party came up with a funny idea to use the blunted arrows as a bludgeoned weapon. While technically I don't think this would work, everyone found it hilarious at the time so I let it slide. The party does fairly well during combat, but outside of combat it's pretty rough, ESPECIALLY after getting new loot. For instance at the very end after the final boss fight, instead of retrieving the Everflame and rescuing Dimira and what not, the power gamer immediately just started looking up what items did what and what he was going to do with them. Pissed me off a bit. The party seems to not know what to do after combat is over, or to be more specific, they don't know how to role-play very well. I'm being a bit picky, because I'm a huge role-playing fan and fan of fantasy stuff in general, but whatever.
DR can be pretty crazy because it's for every hit. So until the PC's can bypass enough or hit hard enough that the DR is minimal it can make some encounters much more challenging. I liked that you went along with the PC's idea for the blunted arrows, that's a great call on the fly from a new GM and makes encounters more memorable to everyone involved. I reward my own players for thinking outside of the box and doing things like this.
As far as the treasure goes: I wouldn't let the power gamer in the group stop to look everything up. He'd actually have to be able to detect magic first to know that an item was magical, then he'd have to roll spellcraft to be able to have a chance to identify it. So the best way to handle that is say, "You found a very nice sword of exceptionally quality, 3 potions or oils of some sort, 2 scrolls, and a pair of gloves with runes inscribed upon them." This way they don't know right away what these items are, but think that they are valuable and perhaps usable. They can stop to try to do the checks, but unless it's a safe place they could be in for more dangerous encounters while they are oohing and ahhing over their new treasure.
Overall, I felt much more prepared this time (but I still feel like I didn't prepare enough!). I had index cards with stat blocks for every creature and PC, but I still struggled a tad bit with keeping track of HP and stuff.
I'm not sure how technical you want to get, but there is a nifty program out there for your laptop that is pretty nice to use and keeps track of pretty much everything for you. Combat Manager is it's name. It has random treasure tables, it has the ability to roll and/or put initiatives, it has monsters stats, it has spells, and is just overall very useful to have at the table as a GM's tool.
So with this second session comes a bunch of new questions (I'm asking some of these on behalf of my players as well):
1) How does the "trip" combat maneuver work? Is it just a d20 roll vs the target's CMD? And when it succeeds, do they just stay in the prone position for 1 round? Then spend one move on their next turn getting up?
A: Trip is CMB + modifiers + d20 roll vs CMD. The rules to combat maneuvers is here towards the bottom of the page where it says Combat Maneuvers.
2) At the end of the module, Kassen gives you a "bag of holding" but in the item description under Magic Items it says it has a "CL 9th". Does that mean we can't even use this until there is someone who has 9 levels in a casting class? If so, then why is this given to us in a 1st-2nd level module?
A: This is a minor bag of holding, the Type I. and can hold only a small amount of goods as described in the type I. Look at the dimensions here to get an idea of what the bag of holdings hold.
3) In one of the final crypts the PCs find a spellbook containing several spells and all the wizard cantrips. Can non-wizard PCs learn/use any of the spells in that spellbook? Can they sell the spellbook if they can't use anything with it?
A: Non-wizard PC's that can cast Arcane spells can learn cantrips. Classes like Bard, Magus, Sorcerer, Witch, etc.
4) Can a spellcaster have multiple copies of a single spell? For instance, if a Cleric is allowed to have two first-level spells for the day, can he use both spell slots to hold the same spell?
A: Yes. There are a couple of restrictions on that like spell slots dedicated to schools or domains, but other than that it's okay. A lot of times a higher level wizard will prepare 3 or more fireballs in their 3rd level spell slots (of which they might have like 7 slots) if they like using fireball a lot.
5)*Another skill question (sorry!): If a PC asks to use a certain skill to check something, but the module doesn't mention anything that requires a skill check of any kind, what happens? For example, the Cleric wanted to do a Sense Motive check on Dimira at the end of the module (he thought she might have been lying about something). Since the module says nothing about that, do I as the DM just say "She's not lying." Or do I go ahead and let him make a check and just tell him that he detects that she's telling the truth? This concept can apply to a lot of other things as well.
A: They can do whatever they want. Let the PC do the check as you would any other, if she isn't lying say something like, "You don't sense that she is lying." Just keep it simple
The same thing can happen if they want to roll survival to find some tracks for example. They roll the survival (no tracks are there) and you just say, "You don't find any tracks." No matter how high or low they roll.
6) If a monster has two melee attacks:
claw - 3 (1d4+1)
2 claws + 2 (1d4+2)
Does the "2 claws" melee attack only receive one attack roll? Or two? The way I was doing it was just one attack roll. Also, does that -3 and +2 include a creatures BAB? I ask because Asar has a +4 BAB, but his attack was like, +1 longsword +9 (1d8+5/19-20) which seems way too powerful. So his attack roll would be (1d20 + 4 + 9) ?
A: One if he moves more than 5 feet. Two attacks if he can take a 5 foot step or stand still and get the full round of attacks in 2 claws = 2 separate rolls of the d20 + 2 = result. And if it only attacks with 1 claw it only attacks once at d20-3 = result. So the monster would always try to attack with two claws here obviously.
The PC's attacks (or Asar) are BAB + Weapon Enhancement + Strength Modifier + Size Modifier + Feats (like weapon focus or greater weapon focus) + weapon training (for fighters) - Feats like Power Attack.
BAB 4 + 1 longsword + X strength + feats could easily be +9 if his strength is 18 or 19 with the +4 modifier to it or if he has feats/class abilities.
The second part in parenthesis (1d8+5/19-20/x2) just means that when he hits he does 1d8 + 5 damage. On a 19-20 he does a critical threat, which means that he rolls the attack roll again and if he would hit the AC again the threat is confirmed and he does the critical damage which for a longsword is the x2 (double damage) x3 of course is triple damage and so on and so forth.
Rules As Written: This means he'd roll another 1d8 + 5 because the damage is doubled.
Optional: My table plays it with critical confirmations being just double the original damage instead of rolling again, it all averages out in the end anyhow and speeds up game play.
7) (Last question for now): How do you get a power-gamer to not be such a power-gamer?! Nearly the entire session my power-gamer was only focusing on stats and numbers (there's nothing wrong that I suppose). However, as soon as the session was over and wrapped up, he was immediately looking at how much money he'd spend on a new wand or how he was going to use his new shield, or how he was planning on summoning monsters down the road. He also said he wanted to create a new character soon, to get a taste of how other classes play. As a DM who has been trying for a long time to find a cool group of people to play this with, it made me a little mad that he wants to start a new character already. It's only our second session and he is already talking about making a new character once he reaches level X (whichever level he unlocks all of his spells at). I sometimes can't stand his power-gamey-ness! I feel like he doesn't appreciate the beauty of this kind of game. It makes me want to pull my hair-out at times... ><
A: He's not really a power-gamer to me, but our definitions could be different. He sounds like he's excited to play and try out different PC's. There are a LOT of people on the forums that build up PC's to play and to have as back-ups or even to just theory-craft and see what they could accomplish at certain levels. I wouldn't get upset at him for it. If you keep the story interesting for his current PC he'll want to play it longer, keep giving them hooks related to their back-stories or side-quests that would interest their PCs. Otherwise don't worry about it, it's not something that he has against you in your game, but rather his excitement for the game itself. Also, even veterans like to swap out characters quite a bit if they get the chance and the storyline will allow it.
First, thank you for your detailed answers! I understand pretty much everything except the attack question.
Not a problem, glad to help out wherever I can.
I haven't included this rule about the 5-foot step, although I think I vaguely remember reading about it a few weeks back.
So again, the creature has claw-3 (1d4+1), 2 claws+2 (1d4+2) melee attacks. Let's say he is adjacent to a PC and he decides to not move at all and make an attack. He could make EITHER a 1-claw attack (1d20 -3) OR a 2-claw attack (1d20+2)(1d20+2), right?
If he decides to move X amount of feet to a PC (so he uses his move action), he can only make a 1-claw attack (1d20-3), correct?
Correct! That's how I'm reading it by the way you are explaining his attacks.
1 attack is at -3 to attack bonus and 2 claws are both at +2 to their attacks.
Usually monsters fighting stats are (for example a dragon): Melee bite +21 (2d6+10/19–20), 2 claws +21 (1d8+7/19–20), 2 wings +16 (1d6+3), tail +16 (1d8+10).
This means on a full attack:
1) He gets a bite at +21 to his d20 roll, on damage he gets 2d6+10 and crits (double damage) on 19-20's with a confirmation.
2) He gets 2 claw attacks, both at +21 to his d20 attack roll, on damage he gets 1d8+7 PER claw and the threat of critical is on 19-20 again.
3) He gets 2 wing attacks both at +16 to hit doing 1d6+3 damage each with only a 20 rolled on the dice as
4) He gets a tail attack (tail slap) with +16 added to the d20 result with damage doing 1d8 + 10 on a successful attack.
NOTE: Remember the dice itself not the end result adding the attack bonus needs to be a 19 or 20 in order to be considered threatening a critical.
I think I was doing this wrong last night. I was under the impression that the 2-claw attack was just a single attack roll, so I'd do (1d20+2) and then roll damage for that one attack (1d4+2). Perhaps this is why it was so challenging, haha(d'oh!).
Not a bit deal, don't beat yourself up some of these numbers can get confusing even to the old grognards who've been playing for 40 years.
Again, thank you so much for explaining everything! Especially the treasure part. I was stupid and just told them "you find a +1 longsword, a +1 bashing shield, etc., etc.. Now I know. :)
You are welcome :) Yeah, don't just give them the names of items make them work for it!
*EDIT* The module says that Kassen gives them a bag of holding (type 1), not a minor bag of holding. Is that right? And also, thanks for that Combat Manager tool, however I like to not use electronics during our sessions. :D
A minor bag of holding or bag of holding 1 is just that a bag of holding 1. It's the smallest of the bags of holdings.
Just thought I'd give you something that I found useful. I still do pen/paper method sometimes too.
Thanks! It makes much more sense now!
Just a follow-up question (going back to your dragon), if he were to do a full-attack, is it possible for the dragon to do both a bite AND a tail attack? Or do full-attacks only allow attacks that have a '2' listed in front of them?
Full attack he gets every single attack that he can do for melee.
He gets 1 bite, 2 claws, 2 wings, AND a tail slap for 6 total attacks. Part of the reason dragons are so nasty!
No he doesn't always have to choose the first attack.
It doesn't matter the order of attack with the scimitar/claw attack sequence either. So you can roll 2d20's naming - red for example - as the claw and blue as the scimitar. Then add in (or subtract) to the attack rolls. The same can be done with left claw/right claw (2x claw attack) rolling both at same time and designating which is which.
It's up to the GM (as the creature) to pick which attack they are going to do. So even though the Scimitar/1 claw attack is listed first, that doesn't mean you can't always use the 2 claw attacks instead. It's completely up to you on how you want to run that creature.
I feel the encounter is easier if the creature is doing the scimitar/claw attack sequence as he doesn't hit as often as the 2 claw attacks which both have bonuses to their attack rolls. So again, totally up to you as the GM on how you want to run the creature and what you think would be most appropriate for your group and the situation at hand.
Just keep in mind that if the skeleton moves more than 5 feet/1 square that he can do only 1 of those attacks:
Scimitar/Claw he (you as the GM) can pick which one he wants to attack with.
Claw/Claw he only gets 1 claw attack.
I can definitely see why that is confusing because there are so many rules in the game. Then you run into those if/then situations like the attacking with a natural weapon (claw) and a normal weapon (scimitar) then ____ happens. So keep asking away, a lot of very knowledgeable people on the forums who have been playing a very long time.
Maybe look into getting yourself a GM screen as they have a lot of those little rules that you tend to forget printed on the GM's side and cool artwork on the other side. I've personally found them to cut me off from my players as I hide behind it, but other GM's love the screens and use them all the time. It's a personal preference thing.
One of the other guys in the group keeps his GM'ing stuff very organized, and I've stolen a few of his ideas.
3 Ring binder with tabs that have rules that you want quick reference to (things like touch attack or combat maneuvers), house rules that you've implemented, character backgrounds, campaign notes, upcoming encounters, NPC names, etc. All the rules are OGL and available on the d20pfrd so you can print out what you need whether it's for combat or ability score modifiers.
He also flags things of import in the Rulebooks for faster reference.
Another thing you could do is designate one of the players as the "rules looker-upper" so that last player can be the one who looks up rules for you so you don't have to stop combat or an important RP moment to look something up yourself. The way we do it is that the GM makes the call to the best of his ability and then if he's wrong we know the rule for next time it comes up. Keeping the game moving forward at a good pace is more enjoyable for everyone.
Yeah the DM screen has a lot of tables and lists a lot of the combat rules on it, so if you have it that's a good thing.
Sounds fun, you'll have to let us know how it goes. This game gets more and more fun the more you play it and the longer you play it.