This thread has certainly gone a little astray has it not? Oh well, it is not like that has not happened in many others. It is interesting to read contentions as Decius pointed out and to see the beginings of polarization. As an RP fan it is nice to see the enthusiasm. I think that it would be difficult to do the best RP and leave out emotional/confrontational content. The gentler readers should beware.
@ Eldurian Darkrender I know well your nature to play around at being and saying you are whom you are not. You speak as though you are a member of Acheron already. If you are seriously considering such then I am gladened. I can already hear the clatter of platters and your booming voice from the street as you dance across the tavern's tables in a full theatrical re enactment of your latest exploits. You would be most welcome.
Yes Acheron plans to be a last refuge for hunted criminals as well as a place for all sort of "activities". If pressed we may surprise aggressors. You can burn a town but an emnity can be lifelong. The key will be to avoid such need. Only griefers and those that damage Acheron's well being will be turned away or killed and banished if caught at sabotauge. We will likely be open to all visitors as we have nothing to hide from spies.
Care must be taken when choosing a build site. If you look past the Big Bear and how threatening he appears you can see that Andius idea of co ordinating placement of settlements IS a sound idea. Acheron will not be pushed off someplace that is disadvantageous or anywhere they do not wish. The setting up of the game board does need Strategic thinking and not emotional or with misplaced pride .
@ Bluddwolf and Xeen I am responding to you in one as you are both UNC. Things will be just as proposed barring major shifts in rule mechanics that make them unfeasable.We will be glad to have you visit Acheron. You are just the kind of Ruffians we like. Keep an open mind to forming a second Company and joining Acheron. Either way we will be here with mayhem on tap.
Derail apologies appreciated but not neccesary. It happens all the time and it is ALL political in the end.
@ Hobs the Short Hello. It is obvious from your posts that you are polite, diplomatic, and strong in conviction when you argue something. I hope that we have occassions in the future to talk about all manner of things. Bring your lockable pouches if you visit.
@ Sadurian you plan to be CN? We will be here to visit or to join. Your Witchy Ways and desire to craft herbal liquids would be an excellent catch for Acheron. If you can become as skilled as you plan, there could be great profits for you here.
Be assured that if I have not responded to your post here it is because I have nothing to add to your perfect points. Not from any disrespect.
@DeciusBrutus We are hoping to be perceived as non aggressive neighbors but I am sure that the nature of our membership will cause a great deal of tension in our immediate vicinity at the least.
It will be an interesting exercise in whether chaotic and evil play is viable by the rules.
Yes the intricacies of expansion vs. non and whether full potential can be reached for the structures needed for maximum training could be a complication.
It will not have to be dealt with for some time.
@ Nihimon As is clearly stated in multiple places above good Sir: Not a chance in Hell.
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@ Nihimon As is clearly stated in multiple places above good Sir: Not a chance in Hell.
You're quite right. It didn't jump out at me when I scanned the Original Post right before asking you, but it's clear as day:
Players with low Reputation or a penchant for Griefing, need not apply nor expect to live overly long.
@ Bluddwolf There will be a difference most assuredly. It will depend on the actual economic mechanics. If a Member's Rep is low enough to damage Acheron they will be evicted. If a visitor's low Rep is damaging they will be refused entry. All of the ability to do these things is speculation. The implementation of the policy depends on the final game mechanics.
Acheron seeks members that can use their minds to achieve their goals within the rules of the game.
Now I am catching a great deal of flak.
Exceptions may be made for low Reputation individuals if the detriment is very low and easily recoverable.
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Now I am catching a great deal of flak.
Exceptions may be made for low Reputation individuals if the detriment is very low and easily recoverable.
This is a great improvement and shows the necessary flexibility. It is still a great debate here on the forums as to why certain actions, even within "the rules" can still net you a negative reputation. Oddly enough, even PvE actions can grant negative reputation, which has nothing to do with whether your are "playing well with others" or not.
I'm not saying - 5000 or less kind numbers, but it remains to be seen what typical criminality will generate.
@ Nihimon Actually our intolerance of low Reputation characters is a stand against negative impact play. Zero tolerance for what the game considers negative play.
A secondary but also very important consideration is the economic impact on settlement D.I.
So a stance for the lowest negative impact in both the area of the settlement's function and high standards for legitimate criminal play.
Chaotic and evil settlements are already going to struggle to be efficient and be targets for their neighbors. Hopefully this stance will mitigate some of those detriments.
Exceptions may have to be made for cases where legit criminal activity is dragging a Reputation score down to the cusp of detriment.
Really it is going to depend on the final mechanics. It may turn out that exceptions are not necessary.
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So, your tolerance for Low Reputation characters is entirely based on the impact that admitting them will have on you. That's understandable, especially given your preferred Alignment.
You Drow are so difficult to read for sarcasm..... But, if you are serious, I would not say CE is any more prone to negative reputation than any other alignment.
All you need is a Lawful Good character who is over zealous with his rebuke for those that kill him, and he could very well end up with a negative reputation himself.
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@ Eldurian Darkrender I know well your nature to play around at being and saying you are whom you are not.
Your words wound deeply. I really am a wealthy heir to a distant throne who rescues puppies and kittens in between meditating on how to end poverty and bring about world peace. I am simply in these lands to spread the good will of the throne of Tihs-Llub and find a princess worthy of taking home to my father's kingdom.
I can find many a tavern maid who will back up my word.
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@ Nihimon Actually our intolerance of low Reputation characters is a stand against negative impact play. Zero tolerance for what the game considers negative play.
Excellent!
That was indeed the matter at the heart of my questioning. I am extremely pleased to see you make such a clear, unambiguous stand. Not that it's worth very much, but you've earned my sincere respect. I hope your endeavor is successful and will probably be inclined to support it in a number of ways in-game.
I would not say CE is any more prone to negative reputation than any other alignment.
I wasn't being sarcastic, but I also wasn't trying to imply that Chaotic was prone to Low Reputation - rather, I was pointing out that Chaotic would naturally be more prone to only consider a situation in the light of how it personally affected them.
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Is there a list of which actions will negatively affect Reputation?
Not really a list, but you might find the RESPECT: Find Out What It Means to Me! blog informative, particularly the section titled "I Don't Give A Damn 'Bout My Bad Reputation".
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Thanks, Nihimon. I did read that but I was wondering if there was anything more. Something that gave a more concrete list of transgressions liable to reduce reputation.
I know that, being a social construct, it will depend a lot on the other players, but given that PFO is building software-triggered tags for other PC behaviour, I was wondering if that was going to be the case with reputation as well.
@ Greedalox Nice to hear from another UNC Member. Thank you for your support. We will look forward to seeing you about the city. Please keep the burning buildings to a minimum.
@ AvenaOats Well Met Avena. Reputaion is a mostly game controlled mechanic. Why do you always seem to refer to chaotic and evil alignments as low? They are legitimate playstyles if applied within the game's structure.
Impeccable Reputation will not be a requirement. Reputation that does not reflect repeated negative game play or damage Acheron's Development Index or the functions of it's buildings will be.
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Well, I suppose more in terms of low-high/right-left along a scale. Also in terms of DI I believe it tracks that for each player to each settlement. I know I have an unbidden habit of thinking of hells as descending underground and celestial heavens as ascending too, which probably plays a part correct or not. It seems to me, also:
Alignment (Chaos/Evil) -> Reputation -> Player Discretion
as "levels of assessing" tool another player's reliability also, with Alignment more fundamental (and "hard coded") and Player Discretion totally open and Reputation someone betweeen the two. IE Player Discretion seems more rareified and less rule-bound though obviously impacted by the preceding "more fundamental" layers of mapping player interactions/choices/history of.
I guess Reputation will run along certain specific (inter)actions coming with the possibility of Reputation rating across a range and according to from whom to whom. It's a bit like if people you associate with rate a player then you can rely on that rating of their reputation. So more relative system than the absolute system of Alignment. Again much more subjective than objective via any space left-over for Player Discretion ie Executive (higher-level player choice) vs Automatic (lower-level game choice).
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A low-reputation LG character wanders the areas close to Thornkeep and preys on weak players as soon as they get flagged as legal targets.
A high-reputation CE character runs a despotic "settlement" built mostly by undead labor out of the way of the many people that come looking for it.
The reputation axis is orthogonal to the alignment axes.
A low-reputation LG character wanders the areas close to Thornkeep and preys on weak players as soon as they get flagged as legal targets.
A high-reputation CE character runs a despotic "settlement" built mostly by undead labor out of the way of the many people that come looking for it.
The reputation axis is orthogonal to the alignment axes.
It will be interesting to see if waiting for and killing legal targets will damage a low-reputation LG character or not. Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of waiting?
To state more clearly:It will be interesting to see if waiting for and killing legal targets will damage reputation or not. Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of waiting?
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So reputation is dependent on you acting within your alignment? That will be tricky if people have different views of what constitutes a particular alignment.
I have known players who have been forced to take LG knights for the sake of the campaign, who have then marched straight out of town in to the lair of the biggest and nastiest monster they know of (and were inevitably killed), all because they think that that is what LG means. I know players who believe that LG cannot refuse to go fight the evil directly, no matter how outclassed they are.
Others believe that playing evil means you have to constantly commit murder, and that chaotic characters cannot commit to any sort of routine..
I played a charming NE rogue who didn't murder or commit overt crimes, but instead seduced wealthy older women and lived off their wealth. I saw it as NE because he was selfish and only cared for himself, but I'm that others would not agree.
Now if reputation can be damaged by playing out of alignment, who is going to judge? If I believe that the NG PC I have just dealt with is not playing NG because he refused to pay full price or ignored a beggar, I'm sure that I'm right in thinking that I can vote his reputation down.
@ Sadurian As far as I have seen it defined and understand Reputation gain or loss will be mostly linked to PVP and interactions of various flags and or lack of flags. I believe that some PVE content may affect your Reputation score but that is a dim memory.
As DeciusBrutus pointed out it is orthogonal and not parallel or tied to alignment.
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@ Anathema,
If you have not seen it yet, Areks has supplied a clsoe up of the map from the video:
It would be interesting to read where you would have your settlement, and where others would have you put your settlement.
Also, if the UnNamed Company chooses to use your settlement as a safe harbor, we would of course compensate you well for it. If their leadership should approach you, I would ask that you direct them to speak to us.
If our actions are bringing unwanted attention to your settlement, we will gladly have a discussion directly with the aggrieved party. We would offer them protection from our raids, in exchange for a fair toll fee. Of course, Acheron would receive its cut of that fee as well.
@ Bluddwolf Much more information will be needed before Acheron can seriously consider where We would like to settle.
We would like to avoid areas that provoke aggression yet have enough resources that initial building will not be complicated. I am fairly certain that start up resources will be everywhere as part of the design.
If We are too far away from the mainstream it will be difficult to use Acheron for shelter and be meaningfully near some of our member's work areas. We would also like to be situated where some trade would be worthwhile to all parties.
Acheron will gladly pass on communications that may lead to possible employment or if you prefer unemployment to UNC.
I would like to wait for a more well color co-ordinated map that hopefully Harad Navar will offer the community before I comment further.
It appears that there at least 17 or more likely light green hexes in the woods alone which seems to be too many. A much more clear definition is needed.
This map is obviously not for EE as it is many times larger than the stated 144 hexes and 15 or so settlement hexes. The EE area will be roughly the middle so Alejah's (sp?) Crossing will be the NPC area?
Have these plans changed?
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Territory
We're going to build about 144 hexes, each about 680 meters by 780 meters, prior to the first players joining the game. One of those hexes will be a settled area controlled by NPCs, and at least one of the nearby hexes will be a monster hex which will regularly create problems for the settlement. About 15 hexes will be sites for eventual player settlements (the systems for claiming, building, and administering these settlements will be introduced later in the Early Enrollment period). The remaining hexes will be wilderness, places where characters will go to find and extract resources and struggle with each other over the economic assets they represent.
This territory is going to be located roughly in the middle area of the Crusader Road zone we've previously discussed. It's mostly low hills and sparse forest, with some small ponds and a few higher hills. The hexes will be laid out in an east-west configuration. When you reach the edge of the area, you'll find an invisible wall that limits further travel.
Possibly the biggest Guilds will claim these via Land Rush!!
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So TEO get the prime location and everyone else gets to live in the swamps :) glad I applied to the right guild then
Possibly the biggest Guilds will claim these via Land Rush!!
You do realize that the poll is not closed, and that people can change their votes or cast new vote, don't you?
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So TEO get the prime location and everyone else gets to live in the swamps :) glad I applied to the right guild then
Possibly the biggest Guilds will claim these via Land Rush!!
With a year until EE, and some time after that settlement features implemented, there may be some surprises in the cards.
Indeed. Nothing is more pleasing to me than people that are sure.
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So TEO get the prime location and everyone else gets to live in the swamps :) glad I applied to the right guild then
Possibly the biggest Guilds will claim these via Land Rush!!
What's that tasty delicacy in swamps, crawfish?!
I think settlements of 15, with at least 100 members and more, well, that could initially be a good percentage of the population of current players. So when more settlement hexes open up, I'm sure some players from settlements with particular visions will use their chartered status from their original settlements to found new ones? Even if not members then sponsored chartered companies will still be in demand for contracts, building, hauling, guarding etc and more.
This is being posted here so as not to derail Bluddwolf's similar thread
What is the hard definition of RPK? Is RPK bad in the eyes of the Developers? It would seem that whether it is bandits, champions, or general PVPers at work plying their trade it is all legit.
The biggest concern that I see is that some people here object to what they see as some organizations trying to define griefing beyond the scope of what the developers consider griefing and that there is a difference of opinion in the reading of RPK. What is the difference? Each organization will define it as they like and the fur will fly as is proper. Acheron seeks no favor, promises, or protection. Acheron will not establish near enough to the Big Boys to be an immediate nuisance but we will place in a favorable spot. If we are burned and sacked bandits and criminals will not disappear. I will go out on a limb and say that we will be pissed off.
Hopefully a place can be eked out that allows some breathing room for the chaotic evil and their affiliates to become competitive. It is the view of Acheron that play styles within the scope of the game design all have their place. It is the view of some other organizations as well. I applaud those that have given their opinion that Acheron as proposed will be an integral part of the interesting content of the game world.
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@Anathema
I came across this and was reminded of Andius' Gobbocast interview. I'm curious how this impacts the concept of "Random Player Killing"?
Killing people in a sandbox is not griefing them. Even killing them just because you can is not griefing them.
This is why we don't have a "rule" for what constitutes grief. Because if we had a rule, people will just use that rule as a license to be "just slightly less than griefing" other people.
This clearly takes the definition of RPKing and categorizes it as not griefing.
What some of these individuals are forgetting is that this is an Open World PvP game, where killing other PCs in encouraged. The only real definition that the Devs have come close to, as being Griefing, is attacking noobs in the starter settlement hexes. However, they put more than enough deterrents and punishments in that activity that it will likely only happen once. After that first attempt, the griefer will quickly realize, there is not even enjoyment in it.
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Remember, griefing can be thought of as harassing. If I kill you because your "trespassing in MY woods" and then move along, that isn't griefing, that is murder and it is over with. If I camp your corpse/respawn point, preventing you from leaving and "moving on" with your life, that is griefing. Random killing isn't a problem, or shouldn't be. It just makes that area or road more dangerous. Avoid it and go around or something. Griefing happens if I follow you intentionally and purposefully. If I force you to log off to prevent further harm, Because you can't get away from me any other way, that is griefing. Don't mix the two concepts, Griefing and RPK. Totally different in nearly every way.
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So TEO get the prime location and everyone else gets to live in the swamps :) glad I applied to the right guild then
Possibly the biggest Guilds will claim these via Land Rush!!
What's that tasty delicacy in swamps, crawfish?!
Damnit, now i want to life in a swamp... no, better near a swamp, less mosquitoes.
It`s a good thing that the poll isn`t closed yet;)|
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Damnit, now i want to life in a swamp... no, better near a swamp, less mosquitoes.
It`s a good thing that the poll isn`t closed yet;)
We'll see what happens when the real poll comes out, as anyone can generate an email account, then a paizo account, then vote. IP addresses can be changed through a variety of different methods. So that poll is anything but authentic.
Regardless, it doesn't look as if ANYONE will be living in the swamp. It will be interesting to see how those settlements with 10 to 20 people will fair.