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If we think back at the original post, and take a breath.
We'll notice the core of the message.
There was a cleric who could channel energy, who chose not to channel energy and make everyone heal themselves.
That sounds selfish to me.
Redward plays with me on a weekly basis, he knows I play fighters, he knows I carry my own wand of CLW and use it for healing out of combat, but lets be In Character for a moment.
Your party is approaching the Lair of the BBEG.
You stumble upon a trap, and 90% of the party is severely injured.
Now IC, my fighter would assume this is the opportune moment for the BBEG to pounce. He's heard the trap go off, and he'll hit the party while we're wounded.
I'm going to call out to the cleric to heal us, so that we're not taken out while our weapons are put away and we're tapping ourselves with wands.
It made no IC sense for the Cleric not to heal here.
Now before I get the arguments of "what if the cleric channels negative?" or "what if the cleric can't channel?" Lets think about the original poster's rant.
I think he knew the Cleric could channel positive.
I think he knew the Cleric could channel.
I dont' think he would have made his rant if the Cleric could do none of those things.
If the cleric was a Crusader Cleric with a dumped CHA or an Evangelist, there would be no expectation of healing.
But when you play a cleric who can channel positive and there is a massive area of effect damage done to your party, we're going to expect you to pop off a channel, just to keep us from being sitting ducks.
Now, if I fell from the rocks, while climbing, I'll get out my wand. If the battle is over and we're regrouping preparing for our next assault. I'll get out my wand.
But if IC, we don't know what is coming next, I'm going to look for the cleric to heal me.
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And I agree with one of the earlier posters.
I don't think a cleric should be burning spells out of combat to heal me. I carry a wand for that, but if I took heavy damage because we didn't have a rogue and I said to the party, I'll go first, if I trigger a trap my Hit Points might save me over you, I'd appreciate a little free healing for that ;)
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P33J, channeling is not mentioned
Not having a cure wand does not make me a drain on party resources. I cast my spells to benefit other party members ALL THE TIME. I never once told someone they needed a wand of Resist Energy, Enlarge person, Bull Strength, Invisibility, or Fly.
And I would like to point out that when some crazy ninja/monk/assassin woman lays the smack down on my wizard he is taking damage that would have been directed at one of the other party members. Giving me a hard time for needing healing is really a jerk move. Particularly when my Magic Missiles were about the only things that could hit her.
He says he uses his spells to aid the party. I would assume this means channels too.
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There can be selfishness on both sides of the fence, certainly.
As long as we remember to not tell the other player how to play their character, we are all golden.
I feel it is good social gaming etiquette to have your own wand of cure light wounds. Not everyone shares my opinion. That's fine.
I advise new players of my opinion and I explain why I feel the way I feel. They are still free to choose not to heed my advice, and they do not suffer any undue consequences at my table for making that choice.
That being said, if you aren't at least somewhat self-sufficient in PFS, you might end up at a table where the only healing available is other people's consumables and a Bard or Ranger to use them. In this situation, as a player, I might have my character give you a couple charges to keep you alive, but I'm not donating a large portion of my consumable item to you, because you chose to be selfish.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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P33J, I believe those are reasonable assumptions for in combat, out of combat, in character, and out of character play.
It certainly makes sense for a cleric capable of channeling to channel with the entire group is injured and there is threat of assault, and it most definitely makes sense to expect an in combat heal.
The difference here appears to be that you, as a paragon of virtue and teamwork, bought and brought a wand to use for cases when you were injured and a channel would not be an efficient use of resources. The original poster of this thread had not taken this idea to heart, and had instead brought no wands and expected other party members to spend their charges on his behalf.
If one of my more regular group members asked me if it was acceptable to use my wand charges so that they could spend their prestige and gold on a different wand that could contribute to their survival or mine in an equal fashion, I would undoubtedly agree to this arrangement, as would most people that I know and play with. The issue lies not with one player spending resources for another, but with the expectation of another person's resources without prior consult as to whether or not this was acceptable. This is especially troublesome for P.U.G. play, but I see this ass disrespectful in most environments despite the problems it causes.
This is presumptuous of him in that he expected additional contribution of someone else without speaking to them about this first, it is disrespectful in that he did not believe that they should be consulted about this "exchange", and it is poorly planned because he was not prepared for the scenario where nobody else can afford to pay both their own tab and his. The group has very much appreciated his offer to drive, even if they could have driven separately.
Now should Trundles be ostracized for this act? Certainly not. A single offense is never deserving of being shunned and scorned. However, once the imbalance has been explained to him, he should be expected to prepare accordingly.
If Trundles refuses to adjust his behavior, knowing that the rest of the group does not agree with it, is it not reasonable that he be cordially uninvited from future luncheons?
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Right Andrew,
I think it's more about expectations and less about right and wrong.
I do certain things for the party that no one else can do as well as I can.
I've stood in front of a 5'-wide hallway and held the line against shadows and wights with my Ghostbane sword, because I've spent a ton of resources ensuring I have high Touch AC even as a full-plate fighter
I've volunteered, as I said above, to be the point in a dungeon because we didn't have a rogue and I've spent resources ensuring my HP is high and my Perception is high so that I can spot a trap and if I miss it, take the brunt of the blow for the party.
I've drawn the rage of shadow demons, because I spent money on a ghostbane, evil outsider bane sword and the ability to do a lot of damage per swing, so that the party can stay a safe distance and take potshots at it.
Because I'm willing to do these things, sometimes I expect a healing spell tossed my way or a channel, I don't demand it. Nut I will avoid sitting at a table with someone who could heal me after I've done this for the party, but chose not to, because they wanted to cast the uber spell one more time and be the hero or saved their 9 channels for the Big Bad "just in case".
And still I own my own wands, just in case we don't have a cleric, Paladin or channeling Oracle, or because I'm playing with one of the above mentioned characters who are stingy with heals, because I want to survive with what ever party sits at the table with me.
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Right Andrew,
I think it's more about expectations and less about right and wrong.
I do certain things for the party that no one else can do as well as I can.
I've stood in front of a 5'-wide hallway and held the line against shadows and wights with my Ghostbane sword, because I've spent a ton of resources ensuring I have high Touch AC even as a full-plate fighter
I've volunteered, as I said above, to be the point in a dungeon because we didn't have a rogue and I've spent resources ensuring my HP is high and my Perception is high so that I can spot a trap and if I miss it, take the brunt of the blow for the party.
I've drawn the rage of shadow demons, because I spent money on a ghostbane, evil outsider bane sword and the ability to do a lot of damage per swing, so that the party can stay a safe distance and take potshots at it.
Because I'm willing to do these things, sometimes I expect a healing spell tossed my way or a channel, I don't demand it. Nut I will avoid sitting at a table with someone who could heal me after I've done this for the party, but chose not to, because they wanted to cast the uber spell one more time and be the hero or saved their 9 channels for the Big Bad "just in case".
And still I own my own wands, just in case we don't have a cleric, Paladin or channeling Oracle, or because I'm playing with one of the above mentioned characters who are stingy with heals, because I want to survive with what ever party sits at the table with me.
Exactly so. I think the key is, being an effective team rather than a bunch of individuals all trying to win.
I myself, would be irritated if in the middle of combat the party took a ton of damage, my character was about dead, and the one guy who can ensure it isn't a tpk chooses to do something else. Especially if we all die or flee and fail the mission.
But fortunately I hardly ever run into that situation. Most players are willing to cooperate for the greater good.
Certainly both sides of this argument can have bullies and jerks.
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LazarX I saw a DM say to someone I am targeting you with these monsters to teach you, you need to buy a wand of cure light wounds. I was watchign the table and I said I am sure mr brock would love to hear that and left.
There is a lot of stupidbadfun with people on feelings on character design. The extreme of those people spend time wrecking the game for it.
Advice someone, but respect their right to say no.
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So you don't like being told you have to have a cure wand, but you feel completely comfortable telling the cleric he has to heal you instead?What do you mean you did not bring wands of enlarge/haste/bull's strength?
Sorry, no buffs for the party today. How dare you expect me to expend my personal resources on your character.
Umm...you don't? Seriously, my fighters have stacks of scrolls and wands to either UMD or pass off to fellow party members to use on me...oh and potions.
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Hey you're a cleric who doesn't heal and Bob's a rogue who doesn't find traps.
Since you don't heal Mr. Cleric, you'll be taking point to find traps today. And when the fight begins, we expect you to be in the front lines battling it out against the BBEG, with your 20 AC.
Since Frank the Tank with his 25 AC fighter ain't interested in taking all the damage, if Mr. Cleric can't be bothered to heal him in battle, so your AC 20 Mr. Cleric will have to share some of the damage, up front.
And my archer, he won't be firing 3 arrows per round with his multi-shot since he doesn't want to become a target, if Mr. Cleric won't heal him, when all the baddies want to kill him for doing 40-80 dmg each turn.
The only time I expect to use my CLW wand as a fighter, is if there is no healer in the party, otherwise, I EXPECT the healer class to heal. You'll never out damage my archer, so why bother with your piddly channel negative energy and your crappy Cause Serious Wounds?
And before you whiners start talking to me about not knowing how clerics work, MY primary character is a lvl. 7 Cleric. Oh and I HEAL, I do other things, but I HEAL. Because I'll never out dmg the alchemist or the archer or the rogue but I might keep them on their feet just a few rounds longer to kill the BBEG with the superior dmg, rather than waste spells that might be resisted or might get saved against for 1/2 damage.
So spare me the little, "I don't wanna heal, I want to play a battle cleric," attitude. It will take you three successful turns to do the damage any of the damage classes do in one turn. So sack up and do your JOB.
And this isn't directed at anyone here in particular, its just a pet peeve of mine, when Clerics don't heal. Because they think they are so cool doing 1d8+4 with their enhancement spell, while my archer is doing 1d8+12 x 3 each turn.
Funny thing...I generally out damage the fighters and archers on a regular basis with my cleric. Yeah I need the rogue that regularly shows up to scout for me so I know when to buff up...but when I do, your piddly "massive" 1d8+12 x3 is kinda piddly compared to what I do. Could I do more as a barbarian or fighter or alchemist or gunslinger or a slew of other classes? Yes. But I'm not playing with my fighters/babrbarians/whatever now am I. So don't go and think just because somebody is a cleric that you think you can out damage them...especially if you think 1d8+12 rapid shop/multishot archer is a lot.
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So from what I'm reading here, your position is:
1. If you're not uber-optimized, don't bother showing up.
Have you played a S4 scenario lately?
I'm not for requiring, uber-optimized PCs but Paizo is making them mandatory these days, from what I've seen. Or you're going to watch your PCs eat it, if most of your group isn't, optimized to a major degree.
And half if not most of the people here, who say 'people have the right to play what they want,' are also among the group who keep pushing for harder and harder scenarios and Paizo listens to them.
So, if I'm facing down BBEGs who are 2 times stronger than they were S0-3, then I adjust my play style and who I group with. It didn't used to be like this. But you adapt or your PCs die. And when your PCs keep dying at lvl. 6, you'll eventually quit.
Yeah...my uber UNOPTIMIZED EK walks all over S4 (even playing up). Me and my 13 str and 11 con elf butt has no problem with playing up in S4 and walking into melee. Course I have a million tricks up my sleeve...but that is where tactics comes in.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16
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In the end, it all comes down to the fact that NOBODY likes being told how to play their character. Clerics don't like being told to shut up and heal the "real damage dealers" and other classes don't being told what to do, either.
I think that this community has recognized that if one forced healer-types to overspend on consumables in order to accomplish their party responsibilities, healers become scarce. Based on that, characters have been advised to carry their own healing resources.
The original poster's point seems to be adequately summarized by the statement, "Don't be a jerk, no matter how valid your basic concern may be."
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I find this whole thread ironic, because I actually get more annoyed by people who artificially limit themselves to some kind of perceived role to the detriment of the party.
"Well, looks like you're doing the talking."
"I'm a fighter. My Diplomacy is -1!"
"And it's still the highest in the group. Don't forget to smile!"
"Why are you spending three rounds sneaking around the back?"
"I'm a rogue. I need Sneak Attack."
"You are aware that that landing two attacks in four rounds will do more damage than one Sneak Attack for you right now, aren't you?
"That thing is healing! Hit it before it gets back up!"
"I'm a wizard. I don't have any weapons and I don't want to waste a spell."
Playing roles is dumb. Play a character instead. Real people adapt to situations or they die.
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Have you played a S4 scenario lately?So from what I'm reading here, your position is:
1. If you're not uber-optimized, don't bother showing up.
In fact, I have. I have a rogue, that just made 6th level playing in the Halls of Dwarven Lore on Sunday. He is my first PFS character, and is a totally balanced build. He is a skill monkey, a face, and dual wields gladii.. He has gone through, with great success, Rise of the Goblin Guild, the Cyphermage Dilemma, The Disappeared, My Enemy's Enemy, The Sanos Abduction, Day of the Demon, and The Tower of the Ironwood Watch, in addition to 4-22. I have enjoyed playing throughout these scenarios as well as the other scenarios that he has played, and I do not believe that even in fourth season you must be über-optimized or you die.
Sure, they can be challenging! However, that's half the fun! As has been said many times, play the character you want to play. There is no combination of characters that cannot win. It is up to the players to figure out a way to make their mix of characters work for them. Again, to me, that's a lot of the fun in Pathfinder Society.
I guess to me a lot of the fun in role-playing is trying to find ways to do things with your characters that are not always obvious to anybody else. I enjoy trying to find ways to succeed that the character was not designed to do. For example, my mage with an 8 strength, in a situation where we had to do a lot of grappling and tripping, was not able to fully utilize his cleverly chosen spells, but he was constantly Aiding Another so that we could succeed at the difficult checks. I had a blast doing it, too!
However, it could be said that with an non-optimized team, you will have a greater need of healing. This is because you're not dropping all of the monsters and enemies in the first round of attacks. So, you will need to use more consumables. That's just the nature of the game. It does tend to make things more challenging, and higher risk, and for me more enjoyable. But again that's just me.
Please don't tell me I'm doing things wrong, and I won't tell you that you're doing it wrong as well. Feel free to make suggestions on how I might do things better, and it may happen that I do the same for you. Remember this is all a game and we're there to have fun!!!
Sorry about the rant, guys. Just gets really old seeing people posting on the boards that you can't survive in Pathfinder unless you play a super optimize character. That if your character cannot succeed at his "assigned tasks" with little or no chance of failure, he isn't worth playing with.
SIGH!!!
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For the record, I do not demand healing. I don’t tell anyone they have to heal. If no one is willing to heal me and I am out of potions then I acknowledge I may spend the rest of a scenario unconscious (but stable) on the floor while the rest of the group goes on without me.
I just don’t like being told I HAVE to get a wand.
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Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Columbus
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as a retired cleric (through the retirement arc), I had 9 channels and could of course use healing spells. Often my higher level spells were better spent casting summoned celestial lions or tigers who could smite. I actually used scrolls of heal to save those slots for summons sometimes.
I had one adventure where I went through 40+ charges on a wand, using it in downtime healing to keep the party alive because I knew my channels and heals would be needed later (king of storval stairs). When we finished and everyone else was talking about what they would buy with all their new money--on my list was another scroll of breath of life, two heal scrolls and another wand of cure light wounds--and my summoned celestial creatures were rocking the dps.
most fair parties will look at what resources a party member has expended--whether it be a scroll of teleport by the wizard or a bunch of charges off a wand by the cleric. It is not fair for five people to horde their money while another goes broke keeping the party going.
as for why not using free expendables like channel and heals? My heals are reserved for other spells sometimes--cure blindness, summon, cleanse, heal, blindness, silence, blessing of fervor, bless, prayer etc. My channels?----I use them to heal one injured person and then later when 5 are hurt I will be out of them.
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For the record, I do not demand healing. I don’t tell anyone they have to heal. If no one is willing to heal me and I am out of potions then I acknowledge I may spend the rest of a scenario unconscious (but stable) on the floor while the rest of the group goes on without me.
I just don’t like being told I HAVE to get a wand.
So essentially your rant is more about others telling you what to do or how to play rather than against the etiquette of carrying your own wand?
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Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Columbus
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btw---my cleric brings
a means to affect a swarm --ie alchemist fire
a way to fly
a way to invis
a way to escape grapple
a scroll of teleport- travel domain cleric
I don't expect the wizard to always invis or fly me. Each party member should be responsible for their own way to fly, invis etc
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For the record, I do not demand healing. I don’t tell anyone they have to heal. If no one is willing to heal me and I am out of potions then I acknowledge I may spend the rest of a scenario unconscious (but stable) on the floor while the rest of the group goes on without me.
And at that point, you leave the party with the decision to expend their own resources on you or let you become dead weight.
Why would you do that to them?
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@Andrew Christian: Yes
@redward: I don’t try to get in that position. I sit at every table with a healthy supply of potions just to avoid that situation. Being left behind is not a choice I would make but one I am willing to deal with if it is made for me by the other players.
@LazarX: I don’t tell anyone over the age of 13 and any experience with the game what to do with their character and when I do, I only remind them of what their character is capable of. It’s “Did you know you can do sneak attack damage if you flank?” not “Move here so you can sneak attack.”
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Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Columbus
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have you ever seen what an augment summoned celestial dire tiger pouncing with smite can do to the BBEG? the next round I summon another, the third round another. Now you try to keep up with 3 augmented summoned dire tigers doing smite damage.
what often happens is the BBEG spends rounds trying to kill those tigers at 133 hps each while not hitting the party letting others do damage.
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Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Columbus
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it is kind of like a wizard throwing a fireball--it is their choice. but the fireball at level 10 does 10d6 for an average of 35. The creature makes a saving throw so takes 17, it has fire resist 10 so takes 7 points of damage. Had the wizard instead cast haste, the whole party would have had an extra attack and the damage potential would have been 20 times the 7 probably(and they would continue to do that for 9 more rounds)---but wizards still often throw fireball instead. It is their character
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@Andrew Christian: Yes
@redward: I don’t try to get in that position. I sit at every table with a healthy supply of potions just to avoid that situation. Being left behind is not a choice I would make but one I am willing to deal with if it is made for me by the other players.
Wait, wait, wait. Are you trying to tell me that you spend 50 GP per on potions but don't want to spend 15 GP per charge on the wand just because someone said you needed to?
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Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Columbus
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btw--after using the 40+ charges on the CLW wand and saving my channels and heals it still took all 9 channels and every spell I had and 2 heal scrolls and 1 breath of life scroll to keep the party up---had I used those channels when only one was injured--we would have TPKed.
Silly question, what's wrong with spending 2 pp on a wand of infernal healing or cure light wounds? I thought the scenarios were written with that in mind anyway.
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it is kind of like a wizard throwing a fireball--it is their choice. but the fireball at level 10 does 10d6 for an average of 35. The creature makes a saving throw so takes 17, it has fire resist 10 so takes 7 points of damage. Had the wizard instead cast haste, the whole party would have had an extra attack and the damage potential would have been 20 times the 7 probably(and they would continue to do that for 9 more rounds)---but wizards still often throw fireball instead. It is their character
Or the wizard does a maximized empowered fireball and does something like 90 points of fire damage to creatures with poor reflex saves and no fire resistance. Because throwing a fireball at a fire elemental is stupid and he is not stupid.
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Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Columbus
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The life oracle is a build choice within the oracle class. As a class, Cleric blow Oracles out of the water for healing potential when you add channels. The few times I've run with Clerics and run them, channel healing alone has been amazing at keeping the party upright.
actually a aasimar life oracle will out channel a cleric. cleric 3+cha channels--but his primary stat is wisdom so he builds that up--probably a 14 cha to give him 5 channels.
life oracle 1+cha in channels--and cha is his primary stat so he will probably have that at 20 or so at higher levels. for 6 channels
aasimar favored class ability--1/2 your level on any oracle ability--so at 10th level he counts as 5 levels higher for dice per channel.
so assuming both bought extra channels the cleric probably has 7 while the oracle has 8 channels. can take traits and feats for more
cleric at level 10 channels for 5d6
aasimar life oracle at level 10 channels for 8d6
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Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Columbus
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it is kind of like a wizard throwing a fireball--it is their choice. but the fireball at level 10 does 10d6 for an average of 35. The creature makes a saving throw so takes 17, it has fire resist 10 so takes 7 points of damage. Had the wizard instead cast haste, the whole party would have had an extra attack and the damage potential would have been 20 times the 7 probably(and they would continue to do that for 9 more rounds)---but wizards still often throw fireball instead. It is their characterOr the wizard does a maximized empowered fireball and does something like 90 points of fire damage to creatures with poor reflex saves and no fire resistance. Because throwing a fireball at a fire elemental is stupid and he is not stupid.
won't argue that point TOZ---that is my point. the character chooses what they think best. I have seen wizards throw fireballs at eryines. Let others play their toons. LOL I still think haste is the most efficient DPS spell in game if you have a melee or missile group. marvelous spell haste--but of course dpsers can get it in boots of speed if they like.
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Wait, wait, wait. Are you trying to tell me that you spend 50 GP per on potions but don't want to spend 15 GP per charge on the wand just because someone said you needed to?@Andrew Christian: Yes
@redward: I don’t try to get in that position. I sit at every table with a healthy supply of potions just to avoid that situation. Being left behind is not a choice I would make but one I am willing to deal with if it is made for me by the other players.
Not JUST because they told me I need to but, Yes I would. I know it is not cost effective. But back at level one I decided that this character (just this one not all of them) would not carry a healing wand. He can’t use a cure wand himself, and as a lawful good expatriate of Cheliax he wasn’t going to use Infernal Healing. I show up with plenty of potions. That’s how I roll.
Any class I play that can use a healing wand will. A different caster who could use infernal healing would. My gunslinger wont, but he will have a ton of alchemical goodies. If they come out with alchemical healing he will have that.
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Wait, wait, wait. Are you trying to tell me that you spend 50 GP per on potions but don't want to spend 15 GP per charge on the wand just because someone said you needed to?@Andrew Christian: Yes
@redward: I don’t try to get in that position. I sit at every table with a healthy supply of potions just to avoid that situation. Being left behind is not a choice I would make but one I am willing to deal with if it is made for me by the other players.
Not JUST because they told me I need to but, Yes I would. I know it is not cost effective. But back at level one I decided that this character (just this one not all of them) would not carry a healing wand. He can’t use a cure wand himself, and as a lawful good expatriate of Cheliax he wasn’t going to use Infernal Healing. I show up with plenty of potions. That’s how I roll.
Any class I play that can use a healing wand will. A different caster who could use infernal healing would. My gunslinger wont, but he will have a ton of alchemical goodies. If they come out with alchemical healing he will have that.
I can say that I have absolutely no problem with a player not getting a wand of cure light wounds, so long as they compensate like you are by purchasing a stock of healing potions. It's not cost efficient by any means, but you are perfectly within your right to waste your own gold.
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To the Paizo staff member who changed the thread title.
"Gosh Darn"? Really??
Yes, really. We sometimes look the other way about profanity usage in threads, if it doesn't get out of hand, but we prefer to keep the thread titles to language acceptable in most work and family environments.
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Yes, really. We sometimes look the other way about profanity usage in threads, if it doesn't get out of hand, but we prefer to keep the thread titles to language acceptable in most work and family environments.To the Paizo staff member who changed the thread title.
"Gosh Darn"? Really??
The change does do some pleasantly amusing things to the tone of the thread, one must admit. ;)
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Yes, really. We sometimes look the other way about profanity usage in threads, if it doesn't get out of hand, but we prefer to keep the thread titles to language acceptable in most work and family environments.To the Paizo staff member who changed the thread title.
"Gosh Darn"? Really??
The change does do some pleasantly amusing things to the tone of the thread, one must admit. ;)
I would absolutely love to have Joe Pesci at my table.
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Wait, wait, wait. Are you trying to tell me that you spend 50 GP per on potions but don't want to spend 15 GP per charge on the wand just because someone said you needed to?@Andrew Christian: Yes
@redward: I don’t try to get in that position. I sit at every table with a healthy supply of potions just to avoid that situation. Being left behind is not a choice I would make but one I am willing to deal with if it is made for me by the other players.
Not JUST because they told me I need to but, Yes I would. I know it is not cost effective. But back at level one I decided that this character (just this one not all of them) would not carry a healing wand. He can’t use a cure wand himself, and as a lawful good expatriate of Cheliax he wasn’t going to use Infernal Healing. I show up with plenty of potions. That’s how I roll.
Any class I play that can use a healing wand will. A different caster who could use infernal healing would. My gunslinger wont, but he will have a ton of alchemical goodies. If they come out with alchemical healing he will have that.
Okay...so if you had a stack of potions (like say 25 then...since you don't need a stack of 50 like a wand), why did you need the channel for down time healing? Or was it so you could save yourself some gold at the cost of increased risk to the party at a later encounter? If potions fit your character more then a wand and you wanna waste money...hey go for it. It's all you. But once again, if your stacking up potions instead of wands, how did you run out? Was it a particularly hard scenario where others were burning through half their CLW wands? I get the feeling it was not and you just wanted to save some of your money. Your choice was to dump a bunch of money into potions instead of wands, the other players should not have to support your choice by burning their channels, spells or their own consumables instead. You show up with 25 CLW potions at the start and you actually had to use them all...then yeah, I'll share my healing items. Hey tough luck happens. You had CLW potions left or didn't have a proper stack to replicate what the CLW is suppose to do however and your gonna get advice with that help. You continue to ignore said advice and yeah, I'm not gonna continue to weaken my character for the sake of yours.
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Wait, wait, wait. Are you trying to tell me that you spend 50 GP per on potions but don't want to spend 15 GP per charge on the wand just because someone said you needed to?Not JUST because they told me I need to but, Yes I would.
That's the thread, ladies and gentlemen. Thanks for coming.
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I'm of the mind that people should play whatever they enjoy, because that is what it is all about. It is selfish at the least to think that, in a system that promotes cooperation and the benefit of being able to play with random people, you should be able to dictate or influence what other players do. Don't want to buy a wand? That is your right. Does the guy sitting next to you want to play a battle cleric? His right too.
I feel like we lose a lot of the sense of community and camaraderie when we begin to focus too much on optimization, class roles, and winning with the fastest play time. Pathfinder Society is about teamwork, always has been. Work with your team, don't command them.
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P33J, channeling is not mentioned
Not having a cure wand does not make me a drain on party resources. I cast my spells to benefit other party members ALL THE TIME. I never once told someone they needed a wand of Resist Energy, Enlarge person, Bull Strength, Invisibility, or Fly.
And I would like to point out that when some crazy ninja/monk/assassin woman lays the smack down on my wizard he is taking damage that would have been directed at one of the other party members. Giving me a hard time for needing healing is really a jerk move. Particularly when my Magic Missiles were about the only things that could hit her.
He says he uses his spells to aid the party. I would assume this means channels too.
There's a bit of a disconnect here between the spells that you mention and Cure Light Wounds. First of all, four of the five spells that you addressed are second level spells, and it's not realistic to expect anybody to purchase a second level wand at 4,500 GP. A 750 GP/2 PP wand, however, is much more within the realm of what practically any character can afford.
Second, unlike the spells that you mentioned, CLW is a spell that is generally cast repeatedly. I've used 4-5 shots of it at a time before. Certainly it goes a long way if you just use it on yourself, but if you have to use it on the whole party, you can easily bankrupt yourself quickly. In my -1s first scenario with a wand of CLW, he used up 17 charges. Why? Because he was the only one there with a wand. No offense to my fellow players, but I think that other characters could have more easily borne the brunt of that expenditure, especially since I was the lowest leveled character at the table.
Finally, abilities like channeling need to generally be reserved for in-combat situations. Why? Because they are one of the few ways in which a character can heal somebody from a distance. Channeling in combat is effective, but most clerics have limited uses. Some very effective builds don't even get it. Non-life Oracles don't get it.
So, what about the spell slots? Generally speaking, a cleric or oracle always has something more useful than CLW in a slot. Bless is more effective than CLW, and Spiritual Ally is more effective than CSW. Certainly, at times those substitutions need to be made, but expecting the cleric to make that choice every time nerfs the character and makes people dislike playing them....the end result of which forces you to not only invest in a Wand of CLW, but also in a point of UMD.