Merciful overload deadly?


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

Merciful as many of you know converts normal damage to non-lethal damage, adding a d6 in the process.

As some of you may also know when you drop a character with non-lethal the remaining damage is converted to lethal damage.

So my question is: Could my boomer (min 30 damage on a hit) accidentally kill someone while Merciful is active?


Well, not in my game, but I'd houserule that nonlethal damage can never become lethal.


Note that in 3.5 WotC actually suggested using merciful weapons for torture.

Given making it so a weapon explicitly designed not to kill someone can accidentally kill someone kinda breaks the purpose, I'd say "no", with a possible exception of someone already KOed.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I think I would say yes. Otherwise you get into a situation where a giant couldn't kill a grappled dog.


PRD wrote:


If a creature's nonlethal damage is equal to his total maximum hit points (not his current hit points), all further nonlethal damage is treated as lethal damage.
deuxhero wrote:


Given making it so a weapon explicitly designed not to kill someone can accidentally kill someone kinda breaks the purpose, I'd say "no", with a possible exception of someone already KOed.

This is already how the rules work. When your nonlethal damage exceeds your current HP you fall unconscious. When it exceeds your max hp any further damage is lethal.


bbangerter wrote:


This is already how the rules work. When your nonlethal damage exceeds your current HP you fall unconscious. When it exceeds your max hp any further damage is lethal.

Yep, it is how you beat someone to death...not that, that has ever happened in game or anything...

Seriously though I let PCs decide how far something goes, if they just want to knock the guy out, I let the Rogue go ahead and roll all those d6 sneak attack with the sap. If they want him knocked out ok, if not ok, but I let them decide.


NotMousse wrote:
Merciful as many of you know converts normal damage to non-lethal damage, adding a d6 in the process.

I believe it is +2d6.


Broken wrote:
bbangerter wrote:


This is already how the rules work. When your nonlethal damage exceeds your current HP you fall unconscious. When it exceeds your max hp any further damage is lethal.

Yep, it is how you beat someone to death...not that, that has ever happened in game or anything...

Seriously though I let PCs decide how far something goes, if they just want to knock the guy out, I let the Rogue go ahead and roll all those d6 sneak attack with the sap. If they want him knocked out ok, if not ok, but I let them decide.

I recommend this solution. If the attacker just wants to make someone unconscious, then ignore the extra damage.


Drachasor wrote:
Broken wrote:
bbangerter wrote:


This is already how the rules work. When your nonlethal damage exceeds your current HP you fall unconscious. When it exceeds your max hp any further damage is lethal.

Yep, it is how you beat someone to death...not that, that has ever happened in game or anything...

Seriously though I let PCs decide how far something goes, if they just want to knock the guy out, I let the Rogue go ahead and roll all those d6 sneak attack with the sap. If they want him knocked out ok, if not ok, but I let them decide.

I recommend this solution. If the attacker just wants to make someone unconscious, then ignore the extra damage.

Most things have enough HP that it is extremely unlikely that a single attack will do enough non-lethal damage to both push them over their max HP and do enough to put them at -con to kill them, so in most cases there is no reason for a GM to even have to consider this option. Pure RAW though (and how I'd actually run this one) is if the damage is high enough you can knock out and kill a person with a single attack - especially with a crit. In that case it may not have been your intention to kill them, but it happened anyway. You hit them harder than intended, or hit that weak spot on their skull and caused it to collapse, or whatever. Dealing with the consequences for a player is more interesting IMO.


RJGrady wrote:
I think I would say yes. Otherwise you get into a situation where a giant couldn't kill a grappled dog.

From the SRD, under Grapple->Damage

You can inflict damage to your target equal to your unarmed strike, a natural attack, or an attack made with armor spikes or a light or one-handed weapon. This damage can be either lethal or nonlethal.

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