Ive recently begun playing a pfs Dual Cursed Oracle with the clouded eyes and Deaf curses, and im looking around for ways to get past the language barrier caused by being deaf from birth. usually what she does is use a notebook (i even purchased a wizards spellbook and it appears on my characters sheet) and communicates that way, but this isn't practical in combat, so i was wondering what the PFS rulings on different sign languages was, which ones you could learn through the Linguistics skill, and how communicating through those works with allies. would we be able to create our own code of signs usable only by us if we each took a rank? would we be able to learn a Sign version of Common, Celestial, or other more commonly spoken languages? could this be used to communicate to each other in combat (no facing rules in pathfinder unless you explicitly state you are averting your eyes)? or would i and another member need to learn something like Drow Sign Language (if possible) and simply translate between us?
also, if i were to make a diplomacy check for using a sign language and my ally translated it, who's check would it be, or would it be me making the check with an ally assisting me for a +2?
Pathfinder explicitly incorporates "Drow Sign Language" as a language like any other.
I believe this is the only signed language in the game, and I'm not entirely sure how a first level gnome, for example, would have had the opportunity to learn it. Nor am I sure that it's specifically PFS legal. My understanding is that PFS does frown on inventing new languages.
In a home game, of course,... hell yes, sign languages are languages.
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PFS lets you spend a point in linguistics for lip reading. It lets you lip read any language you know.
What does a deaf oracle (or other deaf PC) need to do in order to read lips?
In Pathfinder Society Organized Play, any PC may learn to read lips with a rank in Linguistics as if they had learned a new language. When reading the lips of a speaking creature within 10 feet in normal lighting conditions, the reader need not make any skill checks. In situations of dim lighting, extreme distances, or to read the lips of someone trying to hide their words from the reader, the reader must make Perception checks (DC determined by the GM based on the situation). A lip reader may only understand spoken words in a language it knows.
the issue wasnt with comprehending the languages so much as speaking them. i need a way to make call outs to my allies, while i wont be percieving anything they dont with my -12 or whatever i still need some way to prompt my allies on assists and things like that. i suppose that my notebook is the best i will be able to use... and i hope that pathfinder and pfs will eventually include rules on using linguistics to learn sign-versions of common languages, just like real world sign language...
"These divine vessels are granted power without their choice, selected by providence to wield powers that even they do not fully understand."
i interpreted this as not only against their will, but occurring at any time, be it recently or at birth or shortly after. through my interpretation an oracle who was deafened by the strain the process of receiving these powers would have been deaf from birth, people who are deaf from birth cannot speak, as they do not know the sounds or how to form them. it is like trying to explain the concept of color to a person who was born blind, you simply cannot do it, however you can teach what things are called based on lip-formations or touch, such has how Helen Keller was taught sign language. also, when a person has been deaf for a very long time they do sort of lose the ability to speak properly, even after a short time it occurs to some extent, note how when you wear noise cancelling headphones you will find you are unable to directly tell how loud you are speaking, or what you're saying at all, now have this a constant thing for several years. the speech becomes slurred and sometimes indecipherable.
lip reading is more than enough for me to understand them, but i was just asking if anyone knew of a way to have a mute person have the ability to communicate other than through text, which my oracle does just fine with her notebook, for the sake of convenience in combat, it is not always necessary to communicate in combat, but when it does come up it is a useful tool to help mitigate metagaming.
this oracle is one of the most fun characters ive ever played, and i know that my friends have fun playing with me. it also presents new challenges and barriers that other characters would have no issue with. for instance, a common campfire occurrence in pathfinder, wolves attacking the camp drawn by the scent of food, happened to our group at level 1 in a scenario. most parties would just gang up and assist people who were tripped by the wolves, whos tactics are to attack, trip, and drag off isolated targets. however, my oracle with her 9 cmd was tripped and drug into the woods, out of sight range of my allies, and we had a mini combat specifically on our own because i was unable to shout or otherwise summon my allies. it was scary, it was fun, and it turned an otherwise boring and easily dealt with combat into something both deadly and horrifying, and from then on they wouldn't allow me to sleep in a tent alone, take watch "i GUESS no one is coming. -Blinken, robin hood men in tights", or otherwise do things completely alone.
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This is a magical world Soul. Don't worry too much about what reality says about what deafness from birth means.
And don't say that deaf from birth folks can't talk. They can be taught to speak.
But nowhere in the write-up of the curse does it indicate they are mute.
If you want to take that mechanical disadvantage onto yourself, don't expect the game developers and PFS campaign staff to write up something to accommodate you.
i wasnt expecting, just asking if there was anything lol. i think its an interesting mechanic and i will play it. thanks for all the suggestions, ill look into telepathy.
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The deaf Oracle uses the message spell to get round the problems of her curse.
I don't think that works. The message is outloud , not telepathy.
You can whisper messages and receive whispered replies.
Those nearby can hear these messages with a DC 25 Perception check
When you whisper, the whispered message is audible
The spell transmits sound, not meaning
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On page 25 of Seekers of Secrets, under the heading "Gestures," you will find a description of Pathfinder specific non-verbal communications. Everything in this book is part of the core concept, so I would be surprised if any GM's give you grief.
Consider working in an extended stint at the Grand Lodge for your deaf/mute oracle. I would also advise compiling on a table tent 3-4 of the most important communications that you use in combat and their associated gestures.
Thereafter, make sure this character provides sufficient lighting and tactical positioning so that any characters in melee will have no problem seeing you.
If you adventure regularly with a group of players, you might even incorporate Silence into your tactics. This can lead to some unexpected advantages in otherwise extremely challenging encounters.
Personally, I find Telepathy problematic from a roleplaying perspective. It is difficult to adjudicate unless the telepath actually writes down the communication and passes it to the receivers. Many players use Telepathy as though it unambiguously communicates meaning, which it does not. It is fraught with all of the problems of language with the added problem of dissociating phonation from body language. Good luck!
i will need to speak to my local gm about pathfinder sign that is listed in seekers and see if he would allow that to be a learned language, or just something pathfinders would know, ive already spent a linguistics point (at level 1) for lip reading, and have been making due with hoping my allies think tactiacally a see the opportunities i see. although, as far as being a light source and tactically positioned, the only item i actually carry (other than a shield and a reach weapon, that usually never leaves my back)is my hooded lantern with continual flame cast on it, and i always stand directly in the middle of the group, so i don't think that ought be a huge issue.
as for telepathy, i have always seen its communication as less "i think at *pc* and tell him verbally *WERDS*" and more "I transmit *images* of what i see and *emotion or desire* towards it." so less actual communication and more a series of images and emotions that import a general need or goal to be accomplished upon the target. be it death in combat or mistrust in roleplay. although as a pc i would likely say, hey, i use telepathy to tell my party i think he is lieing when he says *statement*
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You might want to look at this Thread, and the linked threads within to see the rulings made about the Pathfinder signs mentioned in seekers of secrets.