I'm looking at joining a game that'll be running a single module, from level 1-4, and I quite like the idea of playing a Whip-based Magus.
Kensai seems a good idea for the free Exotic Weapon Proficiency, though it does lose me my armour and give me only +1 AC from my intelligence at level 1. OTOH, we're using the 3.5 Defence Bonus rule ( http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/defenseBonus.htm ), so I'll actually be getting the same as I would with an armourless normal Magus, and only 1 less than if I was wearing chainmail.
I'm not going to get the really nice thing for this build until level 2 (delivering shocking grasp/similar through a 15 foot long whip), but what sort of stuff can I usefully do?
I could switch to a normal Magus and take EWP (Whip) as my first feat, gaining a better AC and more spells, though then I lose the free Weapon Focus too, and probably won't be able to pick up Whip Mastery.
So, any suggestions for feats, spells or archetypes? Specifically stuff that works with this game finishing at 4th level (maybe 5th at a stretch). It's not impossible that the game could be extended, but if it is, I won't feel bad for asking to make a minor restat.
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Since it's only a 4th level game, you won't loose much by sacrificing the 4th level of Magus, and gain a lot by having an extra feat. I'd go Fighter 1/Hexcrafter 3. Fighter is there for the free feat, Hexcrafter is there to use brand with spell strike to always have a damage spell available when you are out of Shocking Grasp.
An alternate would be a Cleric(Crusader) of Calistira 1/Hexcrafter 3. Your cleric level gives you Weapon Prof and Weapon Focus in the whip, and some back up cleric spells and wand use. The down side is you need to give more points to wisdom than normal and be behind in BAB.
I...really wouldn't do a Kensai in any game that isn't gonna spend most of it's existence at 4th level plus. The AC loss hurts too much.
That said, if you do go that route, a Haramaki or Ceremonial Silken Armor can help quite a bit without costing you more than a little gold.
Had forgotten we're using the Defence Bonus rules; as a class with no armour proficiency, at Level 1 I get a +2 bonus to my AC if I'm not wearing armour.
Mostly, I'm trying to think up ways to make my whip use more viable, especially whilst I'm waiting for Spellstrike to appear at Level 2
Since it's only a 4th level game, you won't loose much by sacrificing the 4th level of Magus, and gain a lot by having an extra feat. I'd go Fighter 1/Hexcrafter 3. Fighter is there for the free feat, Hexcrafter is there to use brand with spell strike to always have a damage spell available when you are out of Shocking Grasp.
I was thinking of Touch of Fatigue instead, via Two World Magic, and also if I'm generally 10-15 feet from my target, Acid Splash and Daze are options.
Aye, looking at it, the benefits of Magus are too heavily back-loaded, and its downsides too front-loaded.
Currently looking at a Spire Defender, Elf, with EWP: Whip from the Archetype, and the feat Improved Trip (or possibly Improved Disarm, but I'm thinking Trip'll be better) as my 1st level one.
Traits will be Prehensile Whip and Two-World Magic (Touch of Fatigue). Spell-wise, I'm currently leaning towards True Strike, Shocking Grasp, Grease, Colour Spray, Enlarge Person, and Shield.
I'm tempted by Mirror Strike if I can use it to do a double disarm/trip, but I'm not sure if I can.
Any particular suggestions for this adjustment to the build?
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I've taken my character kensai12/shadow dancer2 without any trouble so far. He carries the highest armor value in most PFS groups. He's maintained that status through most of his career. When you apply intelligence as an added dex bonus (albeit 1pt/level at lower levels), its one of the few ways to breach 40 ac at level 12.
The only gaps are uncanny dodge and evasion (which shadow dancer fills in very well.) You never want to lose dex as a kensai.
At lower levels your main armor is wand of mage armor and the shield spell. Either you roll UMD well or get a wizard to lay it on you. When you breach higher levels its either vanish or greater invis to sneak in and catch people flatfooted.
I also use deathwatch wands to monitor fights. If I see someone going down - a little magic missile can help them along their journey to the other side.
I would not go with whip due to the limits of criticals. Your main weapon is critting spells through your blade. I've often thought of a whip magus to apply touch damage at 15 feet, but I can't roll 19's and 20's. So, 15-20 ((keen) rapier) or 17-20 ((keen) aldori sword) were my choices.
Enlarge - I had it but eventually stopped using it in place of potions of enlarge. Taking full round casts just shuts you down.
I do like your englarge+ Whip / Imp Trip / are you going to have combat reflexes?
I've taken my character kensai12/shadow dancer2 without any trouble so far. He carries the highest armor value in most PFS groups. He's maintained that status through most of his career. When you apply intelligence as an added dex bonus (albeit 1pt/level at lower levels), its one of the few ways to breach 40 ac at level 12.
However, this game is exclusively taking place at the lower levels.
At lower levels your main armor is wand of mage armor and the shield spell. Either you roll UMD well or get a wizard to lay it on you. When you breach higher levels its either vanish or greater invis to sneak in and catch people flatfooted.
Nope. At lower levels, I use my Class Defence Bonus. At higher levels? Those don't exist, for this, at least.
I would not go with whip due to the limits of criticals. Your main weapon is critting spells through your blade. I've often thought of a whip magus to apply touch damage at 15 feet, but I can't roll 19's and 20's. So, 15-20 ((keen) rapier) or 17-20 ((keen) aldori sword) were my choices.
Still talking high level to much. I don't even have Spellstrike yet.
I do like your englarge+ Whip / Imp Trip / are you going to have combat reflexes?
Nope. Could pick it up at 3rd,but my whip doesn't give me a threatened area, so it wouldn't be so great.
Whip? Might aswell make a whip fighter.
But it depends on what YOU want to do with this. Your only gonna be going to lvl 4 so its not going to be a "I'm a whip your ass with these touch spells huzza" thing at a higher level. What are you going for? What do you want to do as a magus using a whip?
Diminished casting for lvl 4 isn't THAT bad at all. Your just getting more fighter but lose armor, guess your just a caster fighter in light armor....oh wait that's what you are!
I am not sure if it's too high level for your campaign (it would kick in at 3ed), but the Wand Wielder arcana + a Wand of True Strike (750 gp for 50 charges) makes some consistently disgustingly high CMB checks for trips and disarms.
I'll consider it later on, but Spell Combat True Strike should be useful early on anyway.
Wear a cestus (or even 2 - they don't occupy your hands) to allow you a threatened area, and a backup weapon...
Aye, was planning to.
An interesting alternative to a whip as a weapon, would be using a Double Chained Kama.
10 ft Reach vs 15 ft , tripping, a double weapon that goes to a single (allowing you to cast) and back as a free action (dropping a weapon is a free action and the chained Kama allows free action retrieval in the text). You do damage to armored critters and don't provoke attacks of opportunity.
Mmm. The 'not provoking' would be handy, but I do quite like the 15 foot reach. Were it not for the low level, the Whip Mastery feats could sort that out. Scorpion Whip already solves the non-lethal damage issue.
Whip? Might aswell make a whip fighter.
But it depends on what YOU want to do with this. Your only gonna be going to lvl 4 so its not going to be a "I'm a whip your ass with these touch spells huzza" thing at a higher level. What are you going for? What do you want to do as a magus using a whip?
Diminished casting for lvl 4 isn't THAT bad at all. Your just getting more fighter but lose armor, guess your just a caster fighter in light armor....oh wait that's what you are!
Well, Shocking Grasp and Touch of Fatigue through the whip should be fairly nice at levels 2-4. I like the idea of the control, the unexpected attacks, the nice combinations you get from the distance and spellstrike.
And yeah the diminished spellcasting ain't the end of the world, but it does basically halve my spellcasting for much of the time.
a whip magus doesnt realy become verry good untill later on. i wouldnt advice it for such a low lvl game!
when you start to treathen the 15ft area aswell as got combat reflexes your good :-)
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a whip magus doesnt realy become verry good untill later on. i wouldnt advice it for such a low lvl game!
when you start to treathen the 15ft area aswell as got combat reflexes your good :-)
It doesn't have to become 'very good'. It just has to be good enough, survivable enough, for the length of the game.
It feels like it'll at least get by, and the concept, the feel of it interests me.
a whip magus doesnt realy become verry good untill later on. i wouldnt advice it for such a low lvl game!
when you start to treathen the 15ft area aswell as got combat reflexes your good :-)It doesn't have to become 'very good'. It just has to be good enough, survivable enough, for the length of the game.
It feels like it'll at least get by, and the concept, the feel of it interests me.
And again people go away from wht the op is asking for. People already have a meta for this already????