Are you allowed to rejigger your abilities? If so, are there restrictions on going below 10? Because you have no real reason, especially with a human, to need an INT and CHA of 10 with a barbarian. Dumping those two stats to, perhaps 8, would give you enough points that you can go back to getting a bonus feat and an extra skill point every level, instead of the two +2 bonuses to ability scores which really is less useful for a feat-hungry build like barbarian. That feat could go to Extra Rage, for example, which could go a long way towards fixing the problems you've mentioned about running out of rage.
ehh rage power s great. But so are feats and extra class abilties.
Me I would dump stats if I were you. That 10 cha I would drop to 7. Then get like 12 in int and wis. Where it is now is meh. Not enough to help, and someone in the party will have better. That extra will save and skills point much more valuable.
Also due to 1.5 strenght bonus with two handers the 20 strenght you are going for at level 4 is not that much better. You are looking at a +1 more damage +1 to hit. If you plan on going well past 20 then you are on the right track, but 18,22,26 are the magic numbers for 1.5 strength. If you plan on passing 20 then start at 20 to do it asap. Otherwise leave it at 18. now you have 3 more points somehere else.
I am not sure how deadly your DM is, but dual focus is a bit better toughness. If you wanna do damage trade that for power attack.
Now to stay barb or go fighter? Both are great choices. The fighter weapon spec is awesom +2 to damage. As well as the tons of feats you will get if you plan it wisely. The rage powers tend to get better as you go. The low level ones are meh.
What archtypes? Honestly the main one I find best.
OK. There are only a handful of archetypes of Barbarian that are worth considering as a player, except in rare circumstances.
Invunerable Rager -- getting lots of DR/- is awesome.
Urban Barbarian -- allows the use of 'controlled rage' to get a bonus on Dex or Str only, avoiding the problem of rage ending and killing you. You can combine this archetype with Invulnerable rager. If you want to be able to do ranged attacks, this is your best bet. Use a bow, though, not thrown weapons.
Mounted Fury -- doesn't stack with other things, but this is useful if you think you'll get a chance to use a mount.
Armored Hulk -- if you like a high AC instead of DR/-, you can go this route.
There are a number of excellent rage powers, including the beast totem chain of powers, which give you claws and pounce eventually.
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I'd drop the hurling archtype. Yeah, it's flavorful but unless you're going to be a ranged barbarian or want to focus on throwing random stuff, it's not that great. Wildrager isn't bad, but I'd either have someone ready with a hold person or pick up Iron Will quickly. If you're just doing barb for a couple levels, don't rage every fight. Since you'll only have 10 rounds of it per day (without extra rage), it should be saved.
If you're going to move over to fighter, the THW is a good choice. Alternatively, you could use fighter as your dip but take the weapon master archtype instead to grab weapon training quicker.
If you plan on staying Barb, take the Totem warrior archetype in UC (I don't know the exact name). It's weird because it doesn't actually change any features, it just lets you take more than one of the totem chains and some DMs may not like you saying "Why wouldn't I be a Totem Warrior Barbarian?"(Beast Totem chain gives you Pounce once per Rage at 10th level)
Personally, I like Barb because I like being faster, and I feel fighter locks you into Fullplate.
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If you plan on staying Barb, take the Totem warrior archetype in UC (I don't know the exact name). It's weird because it doesn't actually change any features, it just lets you take more than one of the totem chains...
Barbarian--Totem Warrior: Does this archetype allow you to take more than one type of totem rage powers?
No, the line in Ultimate Combat is in error; a barbarian cannot select from more than one group of totem rage powers.
This error will be corrected in the next printing of Ultimate Combat.
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The most important feat for barbarians is Raging Vitality. Hold your nose and take it at 1st level.
For 25pt buy, try the 17,16,12,12,12,07 stat array, for:
STR:17(+2)
DEX:12
CON:16
INT:12 or 07
WIS:12
CHA:-7 0r 12
If skills are important in your campaign and/or you need the Combat Expertise chain at some point, start with higher INT; if the only skill your DM subjects your character to (aside from perception) are carousing skills in bars, start with higher CHA.
If you plan on staying Barb, take the Totem warrior archetype in UC (I don't know the exact name). It's weird because it doesn't actually change any features, it just lets you take more than one of the totem chains...Barbarian--Totem Warrior: Does this archetype allow you to take more than one type of totem rage powers?
No, the line in Ultimate Combat is in error; a barbarian cannot select from more than one group of totem rage powers.
This error will be corrected in the next printing of Ultimate Combat.
Good to know. Best not let the DM see this...
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Know who takes down Invulnerable Ragers easily?
Two Hasted, Invisible 9th-level I-TWF rogues flanking him.
....because he gave up Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge. Since he can be surprised, he probably was, and won't be raging (yet) even after the rogues have gutted him again in the next round due to his probably far-lower INIT. Flat-footed/denied DEX, there's a good change he's eating forty or more d6s before he can do a damned thing.
See what I mean? The built-in self-nerf isn't apparent until giggling halflings are extracting your spleen; and it's way too late to reconsider a munchkin-trap archetype choice.
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Specific built twin enemies built to try to kill one person, who is magically completely unaware, that still have a hard doing so, suddenly makes it a weakness?
No.
Eventually, AC won't matter, and DR/- will prevail.
So, while Uncanny Dodge might have you spraying white gooey happiness, it doesn't top DR, which always comes into play.
Also, Rogue sucks.
So, while Uncanny Dodge might have you spraying white gooey happiness, it doesn't top DR, which always comes into play.
I also think that DR from the Invulnerable Rager is better than (Improved) Uncanny Dodge from the "standard" barbarian. Because you can get (Improved) Uncanny Dodge as a Feat and from other classes and there are better ways to get "not" hurt" as Uncanny Dodge, too. AND with DR everytime (!) when you get hurt, you take lesser damage.
-> Take a look in the Barbarian-Guides and the other Guides in the forum. You will see that DR is better ranked than uncanny dodge ...
The most guides rankes this Archetypes:
1. Invulnerable-Rager
Totem Warrior
2. Mounted Fury
Urban Barbarian
AND you can take a combination from Invulnerable-Rager + Totem Warrior + Urban Barbarian
EDIT:
- The "standard Barbarian get DR 1/- on Lvl 7, the Invulnerable Rage get it on Lvl 2.
- On Lvl 20 the standard Barbarian has DR 5/- and the Invulnerable rage has 10/- (20/- against nonlethal)
- For the Rage Power "Increased DR you need Barbarian Lvl 8+
btw.: In the lower Levels DR is verry, verry nice, because "1 DMG/hit" lesser is so much that the other players (and the DM) will hate you for this extraordinary ability *g*
Last month we (Lvl 6) had a situation with 30 "easy" foes which has ranged weapons. Everytime this 30 Foes hit us we take 1-3 DMG...
BUT my smile let the DM get angry, because he had vergotten the DR from my inv. rager ;-)
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Specific built twin enemies built to try to kill one person,Because that's the way every NPC rogue tag-team, ever in the history of the game, ideally operates?
who is magically completely unaware...You misspelled "forfeited the groovaliscious Uncanny Dodge chain like damned fool while wearing curly chest-hair & baby-oil armor".
Eventually, AC won't matter, and DR/- will prevail.*Ahem* ...two I-TWF 9th-level rogues are going to dish out 20 dice each every round if all four sneaks hit. That's raw 1dx[weapon]+4d6[sneak]. Doesn't count a thing else (like, for instance, a pair of Cold/Acid weapons cranking out another 8d6 potential per full-attack).
So, while Uncanny Dodge might have you spraying white gooey happiness, it doesn't top DR, which always comes into play.
Your DR is going to avoid more damage off forty dice than a CRB's barbarian's lower DR is going to negate off 8d6? ...I don't think so.
And let's not forget about the entire round the Invulnerable just stands there going "Da, wah?".
Also, Rogue sucks.
They certainly suck for a low-ACs barbarians who forfeits UD and IUD.
...that, of course, being my argument.
(And if you think they're bad, wait 'til you meet the ninjas.)
"Can get" and "automatically get" is the difference between maybe 2% and 100% when it comes to Invulnerable versus core builds I've seen here.
OK, but you can´t get (higher) DR as a feat. AND as blackbloodtroll says not all barbarians has a AC below 15, there are also Urban Barbarians with DEX 20+ ...
*Ahem* ...two I-TWF 9th-level rogues are going to dish out 20 dice each every round if all four sneaks hit.
OK there are rogues and ninjas ... but that are perhaps 2% of the foes in pathfinder. Btw.: Which CR has two Lvl 9 rogues? ... this lvl 10 rogue has CR 14, so I think 2 lvl 9 rogues perhaps has a CR from 20?
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I am sure your DM running super Rogues against your "tank" using bad tactics surely made it seem like the coolest power ever.
The numbers don't lie.
Every battle involving an enemy dealing physical damage, the DR will come into play.
Note: You can take both the Invulnerable Rager, and Urban Barbarian archetypes.
This means you can have a high AC Barbarian, with DR.
Wait, is that still not better that Uncanny Dodge?
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I remember an encounter with two 3rd-level rogues on either side of a doorway who bottled up a party of all higher-level PCs. The tank charged in and ate the AoO/sneaks...and promptly slipped and fell in the Grease zone the rogues had set up. They hit him again on their turns, then again when he tried to stand up. Other PCs meta-game "They're out of AoOs!" and move in...to Combat Reflexes.
It was ugly; there were four unconscious PCs at one point.
I understand your point of view, but the DR is (in the most situations) better then the uncanny dodge. And yes, the most Invulnerable Rager have a low(er) AC and no uncanny dodge, but every character have a problem with a 4 rouges sneaking attack ;-)
-->(...)
It was ugly; there were four unconscious PCs at one point.
Also, Rogue sucks.
;-)
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Wait, is that still not better that Uncanny Dodge?
No. I'll trade it all to never be surprised. (Took Urban Barbarian for ultra DEX? All DEX all the time finesse barbarian with Agile weapons? ...guess what you lose when you're surprised and flat-footed. DEX bonus to AC. So: Urban...good; Urban/Invulnerable...danger...)
If there was a feat in the game called "Extra Standard Action And Never Lose Your AC", you'd take it, wouldn't you? Damn right you would. Well, that's what never being surprised is.
I think the OP will be immensely helped by 3 more pages of this...
If there was a feat in the game called "Extra Standard Action And Never Lose Your AC", you'd take it, wouldn't you? Damn right you would. Well, that's what never being surprised is.
Except that "Never being surprised" can be done with a trait Defensive Strategist
Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge will only help you in limited circumstances, DR will help you in ever fight (even those limited circumstances).
Except that "Never being surprised" can be done with a trait Defensive Strategist
Nice! THX, I didn´t know this feat and will perhaps take it with my inv. rager :-)
I went with a drunken brute/invulnerable rager.
(...)
1 Weapon Focus (Greatsword)*
2 Power Attack*
3 Furious Focus* [replace later with Outflank*]
3 Raging Vitality
5 Weapon Specialization*
5 Extra Rage
7 Hammer the Gap*
7 Extra Rage
9 Improved Critical*
9 Extra Rage
11 Weapon Focus, Greater*
11 Extra Rage
13 Weapon Specialization, Greater*
13 Raging Brutality
15 Penetrating Strike*
15 Extra Rage
17 Greater Penetrating Strike*
17 Extra Rage
I would prefer this:
I. Raging VitalityII. Power Attack + Furius Focus
III. Extra Rage
IV. Weapon Focus and Co.
Raging vitality (can) save your live when you are down, as a frontline fighter, you should take this feat first.
Power Attack is the damage-dealing feat, so take it verry fast If you want furius focus take it fast, because in the first levls you only have one attack (BAB < 6) and furius focus only count for your first attack.
Extra Rage powers (mostly) better than feats and with 2 Barbarian levels you "only" get 1 Ragepower. For example: Good what ails for, Knockdown Knockback, Roused Anger, ...
-> Perhaps take two more level of barbarian instead of taking Extra Rage with the extra fighter feat. You gain a rage power, 4 ragerounds and DR 1/- per 2 Barbarian lvl. And the better barbarian rage powers on higher level, too...
Weapon Focus and Co. are nice, but don´t take it in the first (1-6) levels, because you don´t know which treasure you will find and it´s terrible, if you find a +3 keen weapon that nobody want´s and you haven´t "focused" ;-)
What about your Traits?
Perhaps you should take Berserker of the society for 3 additional ragerounds, because you can not take every round a alcoholic drink for more rage rounds ;-)
Is that worth it to have all of my fighter feats (spec, greater focus, greater spec) pushed back by two levels instead of by just one?
Good question, but I am not sure. (I think) It´s a point of view and the difference between multiclassing and class-dip
And I didn't know about the trait berserker of society when I made my character, or I would have gotten it. Maybe if I bring good enough snacks the GM will let me switch.
Every Character get´s 2 Traits on 1 Lvl you should take them - they are free ;-)
And take the Accelerated Drinker trait if potions are coming your way free all the time.
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Yeah; there are way more Extra Rages in there than he'll ever use (like, probably all of them).
And take the Accelerated Drinker trait if potions are coming your way free all the time.
Nevermind Accelerated Drinker (Drunken Brute gets that built in to the archetype).
...I plan on taking most of my levels as a two-handed AT fighter.
I am not a fan of that archetype (I'd rather be core barbarian or core fighter or really any mix of the two.) You're also losing a hitpoint every dip out of barb.
Consider a mixed F/B(mostly) who uses reach weapons and the Reckless Abandon rage power. Take Quick Draw as a feat near BAB6 so you snap off arrows when your main melee attack dropped a solitary nearby opponent. Combat Reflexes generates extra attacks, especially while Enlarged. Do not overlook the importance of Raging Vitality.
Synergistic non-melee dip: Cleric [Kurgess(Community/Travel)] -- never be fatigued ever again.
to note for your choices, urban barbarian is a nice choice since it can choose between controlled rage and normal rage, which combined with the usual rage-loop options can make for a very versatile switch hitter (dex controlled rage for ranged attacks, swap to regular rage for melee).
also raging vitality, while totally awesome, isn't actually required to play a barbarian--and before raging vitality folks get upset, here's an example build that doesn't have it that's more than fine.
2HF has flat-out amazing damage in melee (thanks to weapon training, overhand chop, and backswing mostly), which is fine if that's your aim. combine it with the hurler AT, the charging hurler and imp. charging hurler (feats) and/or hurling charge (rage power), two handed thrower (feat), a belt of mighty hurling (or the greater version later), and you can chuck throwing returning claymores like a boss.
Nevermind Accelerated Drinker (Drunken Brute gets that built in to the archetype).
Correct - I meant this trait: Fortified drinker to get an other +2 on saves against mind-affecting effects.
Without the Urban Barbarian controlled Rage this trait can also be nice: Coherent Rage