Genesist |
The alternate trait reads: "Many tieflings have tails, but some have long, flexible tails that can be used to carry items. While they cannot wield weapons with their tails, they can use them to retrieve small, stowed objects carried on their persons as a swift action."
My question is, does the fist sentence, specifically the "...can be used to carry items." portion, allow me to hold a shield in it? It is explicitly not allowed to use the tail for holding weapons (likely to discourage people thinking they can get iterative attacks out of it), but I've no plan to use the shield as any form of weapon. I'm guessing this comes down to the definition of item, which I believe Pathfinder has been less than consistent on. Thoughts?
Cerberus Seven |
Probably not. A "small stowed object" sounds like a dagger or potion or torch, not something meant to be substantial enough to stop a weapon from taking your head off, which is what shields do. Moreover, the intent seems to be quite clear where it says it allows you to "retrieve" these objects. If it said "wield", like you do with shields, then you'd be good to go. It doesn't, though, so don't try strapping a buckler to your tail and expect it to provide any benefit.
Cerberus Seven |
Yes, because tentacles are awesome:
The tentacle can manipulate or hold items as well as the alchemist’s original arms can (for example, allowing the alchemist to use one hand to wield a weapon, the tentacle to hold a potion, and the third hand to throw a bomb).
I'm simply sad that this discovery isn't one you can take multiple times.
Peet |
The size "small" refers to an actual game rule about object size. A two handed weapon meant for a medium creature is a medium object. A one-handed weapon intended for a medium creature is a small object. So shields are considered small objects, except perhaps for tower shields, which are probably medium (I'm not 100% sure about tower shields though).
So yes, a shield could be carried by a tiefling's tail. However, a tiefling with the trait still can't *wield* items with the tail. But you could hold it with your tail if you needed to put it down for a minute to free up your hand.
Peet
MeatForTheGrinder |
Based on what Peet has said, the answer tho the original question gets more complex, because you may be able to effectively use the shield at almost all the times you would need it.
Ready or Drop a Shield
Strapping a shield to your arm to gain its shield bonus to your AC, or unstrapping and dropping a shield so you can use your shield hand for another purpose, requires a move action. If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you can ready or drop a shield as a free action combined with a regular move.Dropping a carried (but not worn) shield is a free action.
For an example, let's use a level 1 Tiefling Fighter with 18 Strength, a Bastard Sword and a Light Shield, and EWP Bastard Sword and Power Attack as feats. He has a +1 BAB, so he can equip a shield as part of a move. He starts the first round with his sword held in two hands, and his shield stowed on his person but not readied. If adjacent to a target at the start of his turn (delay?), he attacks, dealing 1d10 plus 1.5x strength and +3 from Power Attack, then a swift action to move the shield to his tail, and a move action that includes a free action that readies the shield. He now threatens using the Bastard Sword in one hand, and also gains the defense bonus of the shield until the start of the next round.
Now stick with me... If the shield readied on his arm counts as "a small item stowed on his person", then he should be able to start a round by moving the shield to his tail as a swift action, then taking a free action to grip the sword two handed to make an attack, then a move with combined free action to again ready the shield. In fact he could have started round 1 with the shield readied, and done the same thing.
This shield swapping seems like a lot of work for what works out to 3 damage above normal, but at level 1 this is appreciable. In truth any class can probably get benefit from using a Mithril Buckler that only takes up a hand outside of the player's turn. I could see it being more effective in use by a class that mechanically needs a free hand, such as the magus.
Troubleshooter |
Based on what Peet has said, the answer tho the original question gets more complex, because you may be able to effectively use the shield at almost all the times you would need it.
PRD Rules for readying a shield wrote:Ready or Drop a Shield
Strapping a shield to your arm to gain its shield bonus to your AC, or unstrapping and dropping a shield so you can use your shield hand for another purpose, requires a move action. If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you can ready or drop a shield as a free action combined with a regular move.Dropping a carried (but not worn) shield is a free action.
For an example, let's use a level 1 Tiefling Fighter with 18 Strength, a Bastard Sword and a Light Shield, and EWP Bastard Sword and Power Attack as feats. He has a +1 BAB, so he can equip a shield as part of a move. He starts the first round with his sword held in two hands, and his shield stowed on his person but not readied. If adjacent to a target at the start of his turn (delay?), he attacks, dealing 1d10 plus 1.5x strength and +3 from Power Attack, then a swift action to move the shield to his tail, and a move action that includes a free action that readies the shield. He now threatens using the Bastard Sword in one hand, and also gains the defense bonus of the shield until the start of the next round.
Now stick with me... If the shield readied on his arm counts as "a small item stowed on his person", then he should be able to start a round by moving the shield to his tail as a swift action, then taking a free action to grip the sword two handed to make an attack, then a move with combined free action to again ready the shield. In fact he could have started round 1 with the shield readied, and done the same thing.
This shield swapping seems like a lot of work for what works out to 3 damage above normal, but at level 1 this is appreciable. In truth any class can probably get benefit from using a Mithril Buckler that only takes up a hand outside of the player's...
Without delving into the mechanics of this, I'm going to guess it's not not legal. Paizo has been pretty consistently anti-"2-handed fighters gaining shield bonuses". I doubt that would survive scrutiny.
Last time I saw people arguing about whether a Greatsword fighter could activate a ring of force shield, I seem to recall that the conclusion was that he couldn't benefit from the AC bonus. I assume this would fail for similar reasons.
From a design standpoint, 2-handed fighters get an extra half Strength bonus to damage. The ability to use shields during that turn is what they give up for it. I'd be surprised if Paizo allowed you to start doing it that cheaply.
MeatForTheGrinder |
Oh, I agree that this shield swapping is broken, but is it legal and broken is my question.
I briefly looked over the ring of force shield and I see no reason why it wouldn't work, honestly. Keep in mind that you can't use the hand or arm holding the shield for anything else, so a two handed weapon fighter would not even threaten with that greatsword when the shield is up. Since there "are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM." I'm thinking that that ring probably can't be activated as a free action just before you are the target of an attack.
I'm not sure why you would want to do any of this. Much better to just take the Accelerated Drinking trait with Prehensile Tail. Then take a swift and a move action to drink a Potion of Shield and gain +4 AC shield bonus for 10 rounds that requires no hands and does not keep you from swinging that greatsword.
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