Goblin Squad Member
|
Ryan, that's reassuring. I think it's also a wiser move for GW in the long run.
Modern kids have a much better-developed 'radar' for detecting advertising than kids had in, say, the 1950s. I suspect that kids (and adults) are now in the process of developing 'radar' that detects Skinner box/slot machine gameplay.
Vegas is hugely profitable, but even after the boom in American Indian casinos, not everyone in the US is a slot machine addict. We still have a zillion other hobbies, (and companies ready to profit from all of them).
I think that once we're better attuned to microtransaction Skinner boxes, their profit potential will settle down to something like Vegas levels: Enough to make it worthwhile for a few companies to specialize in them, but not enough to overwhelm all other forms of (electronic) entertainment.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Would be cool to see special requests be cash shopped to add content to the game, while funding the game.
Like a skilled blacksmith who has an idea for a unique sword design that he wants to be his signature style. He could cash-shop pay to have a developer model and render his idea and put it in game for him to make.
Then hitting this concept of 'achievers enabling the cash shoppers', the cash shoppers can then buy a cash-shop special crafting consumable. That can be placed in their backpack, for them to then locate a specialized achiever crafter of their choice, who can transform it into one of their unique signature styled weapons?
The signature style wouldnt have a mechanical effect that makes this a pay to win.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@GrumpyMel
Is it acceptable in sports to spend more to get the best free agents or the best coaches? If one of the rules of the sport are that you can buy more outs or more free throws and "everyone" has that option, is it unfair?
Bringslite most sports/games differentiate between what PREPARES the player to play (e.g. happens OFF the field/OUT of the game) and what happens as a course of play (e.g. ON the field/IN the game)....and YES I believe most individuals including myself would regard those specific examples as UNFAIR since a sport/game is intended to be a measure of the players ability at the sport/game not how deep their wallet is.
Even with cash spent off the field it's gotten to be enough of a problem in proffesional sports that many leagues have instituted SALARY CAPS, have they not?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@GrumpyMel
I realize that you do not like cash shops. I don't use them myself as my pockets are not deep. However, taking a position that something which is available to every player but only used by some, is UNFAIR, just doesn't make sense to me.
Kickstarters have a lot of advantages in this game that later people won't. I haven't heard anyone complain that they don't want those advantages. Those advantages were bought with money and no one else will be able get those same advantages at the same cost, if at all.
As long as all options are laid out and transparent, all rules are defined, then all really IS fair and legit.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
|
One key point is that coin will be purchasable for cash. Period. The decision to make cash->goblin balls<->coin easy (note the unidirectional arrow; for a player to sell goblin balls for cash is hard) squeezes the profit margins on the cash->coin traders, who as a rule are despicable people who also dabble in various forms of fraud.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Bringslite,
I think you know me well enough by now to know that I'm not very competitive and I'm all about the interaction...but I don't care for the cash-shop idea. Part of my dislike is that I believe everything in the game should be craftable by players, which doesn't leave much to be purchased with real cash. That might leave things like buying more storage in your bank, which in games like Rift, could still be purchased with in-game coin.
The second issue I have with it, as I've said before, is that I like to keep my in-game and out-of-game separate. In-game, there's a natural pace to how quickly things happen - how long it takes to find the resources and craft an item, to gain a particular skill, etc. The immediacy of cash for "X" throws off that pace and begins to bring the frenzied feel of theme parks into the game (something I'm really hoping doesn't happen in PFO).
Lastly, though I don't hardly ever "achieve" the kinds of things in-game that I think Ryan alluded to when he used the phrase "achievers" to categorize people who dislike cash-shops because they worked for what they have rather than buying it for instant gratification, I suppose part of my dislike for cash shops falls into that category. Though I'm not a fan of hours of grinding, seeing someone devote the time, organization, resources, etc., to achieve what they have in-game does has value to me. Though I'm not a crafting player, I appreciate someone who is willing to work that long and devote that many resources to master a particular crafting skill. Though I'm not the type to own the best items in the game, seeing someone who has searched high and low, killed countless mobs, and finally discovered and claimed that item after hours of dedication is a worthy achievement in my eyes. Call me old fashioned, but I respect dedication, perseverance, setting and accomplishing goals, etc. In a world where immediate gratification has become too much the norm, I like to see some accomplishments remain true accomplishments - where the size of your wallet and the belief that you deserve it doesn't get you everything. Some things you just have to earn yourself.
@Hobs
One of the routes Eve takes to purchases might be useful for the cash shop.
You want some super nice skinned mount. You first buy a player made mount in game then you trade it plus some real money for the new "Pinto"* skinned mount. No bonuses extra merely looks nice
*I am not a horsey person and have no idea what a pinto is so if its not a particular look forgive me just a term I picked up from some western or other
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
@Bringslite,
My Philosophy: Games are supposed to be about PLAYING games not some fantasy medieval version of the Home Shopping Network. When there is competition involved it's supposed to be a measure of the individuals ability to PLAY the game...not their willingness to spend money. If that's all we really want to measure, you and I don't need a game to do that. We can stand around burning dollar bills until one of us decides to stop. When I'm in a FPRPG, I want to divorce myself from real world considerations as much as possible.
The secret is I actualy have pretty deep pockets. I'd gladly pay $100 per month for a quality game that DIDN'T resort to cash shops. When you think about it, $1000 per year is pretty cheap as far as hobbies go. I often spend that much or more on my other hobbies.
That's not the issue, never been. For the "GAMER" games are supposed to be about playing the game. Just as for the sportsman it's about playing the sport. It's not even "Winning" that's important. That's where Ryan gets it wrong about alot of us old-schoolers. How one comports oneself on the playing field is alot more important then whether a W or an L goes into the results column. Unfortunately we seem to be raising a whole generation of Lance Armstrongs who don't seem to understand that concept.
It's what make Sports or Games different then going to see a movie or going to the amusement park or going out to dinner. They aren't just any old "entertainment activity".....they are in very specific categories.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@Hobbs
Is there some new information that craftables will be for sale in the cash shop? It seems that is the bulk of your distaste, but I haven't seen that info. Forgive me if I have just not seen it. :)
Nope - I do't have any special info one way the or the other. My opinion is that pretty much any object/item normally sold in such game shops, should instead be a craftable object/item. I've seen other perks (nonitems) sold in shops, such as bonuses, stat or skill modifiers, etc. I would rather have any of those be obtainable via player spells or skills.
Simply put, the only purchases I want affecting my character are those that my character makes. But, if game shop purchases will help GW's bottom line without letting deep-pocketed players gain an unfair advantage, then so be it.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@Hobbs
Is there some new information that craftables will be for sale in the cash shop? It seems that is the bulk of your distaste, but I haven't seen that info. Forgive me if I have just not seen it. :)
Nope - I do't have any special info one way the or the other. My opinion is that pretty much any object/item normally sold in such game shops, should instead be a craftable object/item. I've seen other perks (nonitems) sold in shops, such as bonuses, stat or skill modifiers, etc. I would rather have any of those be obtainable via player spells or skills.
Simply put, the only purchases I want affecting my character are those that my character makes. But, if game shop purchases will help GW's bottom line without letting deep-pocketed players gain an unfair advantage, then so be it.
I like this new attitude!
There is one thing we know: There will be a cash shop. Instead of fighting over whether they are good or bad, let's try to get a consensus on what we would like in it. :)
I know that it has already started, in a sense. That's me though, Mr. Redundant.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm not interested in any game where I don't have an unfair advantage. :-)
You sir, are tiny. For you to be equal you need some unfair advantages. (Although you can get into many places other players cannot, and you make Gnomes and Halflings look quite tall.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
My Philosophy: Games are supposed to be about PLAYING games not some fantasy medieval version of the Home Shopping Network. When there is competition involved it's supposed to be a measure of the individuals ability to PLAY the game...not their willingness to spend money. If that's all we really want to measure, you and I don't need a game to do that. We can stand around burning dollar bills until one of us decides to stop. When I'm in a FPRPG, I want to divorce myself from real world considerations as much as possible.
I'm sure you know this GrumpyMel, but most of us do not have a large amount of excess cash to dump into a game on a regular basis. In fact, many of us (or most, I think) can just make the $15 month sub fee (or annual of about $120 if you pay at once. GWs revenue will come from a baseline revenue plus dribs and drabs from many players for the discretionary budget they have for gaming or hobbies (the same fund we all use for burgers, movies, other games, etc...). I can't dish $100 per month, but I can do the baseline, maybe 2 or 3 total if there is a package discount (which is what made the Destiny's Twin so valuable).
None of us begrudge GWs need for income, as the game will die quickly if that income stream dries up, but we all want the game to be fair once we cross over into Golarion and get away from the real world. I want to be rewarded for my ingame skills, team building skills, the risk I am willing to take to go to new places and try new things. I am jazzed about the little things (even lists of achievements which has become so popular). Some nifty adventures in a Foundry like module building tool would be great, as would a few other things I have mentioned on other threads, but the key for me is to allow me a chance to make my own adventures with my chosen group of ingame friends. Once that joy is lost, I'll be done. If the cash shop help s add fun, I'm for it. If it doesn't, ditch it. (That's why I don't play Ultima Online, LotRO, Conan, WoW, or any other game right now.)
|
CEO, Goblinworks
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
@Hardin Steele, tbh the data suggests that most people who play MMOs and most certainly the folks who will play Pathfinder Online have pretty high disposable incomes. $15/mo is pocket change to most of our target market. It's less than they spend weekly on coffee.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Ryan,
I fully agree. Not only is that sum per month minimal for a game, but it's one of the best bangs for your buck of any entertainment you can find. To have 24/7 access to your game of choice for only $15 per month as opposed to the price of a movie ticket, any professional sporting event, dining out, etc...there just isn't any comparison. Even a dollar a day for hours of fun would total twice the $15 price tag.
My question to you would be, for the niche market that PFO will cater to, would a subscription fee not be enough to keep the game running? If not, then I understand your desire for an in-game cash shop. I've never bought anything for cash in such shops, but I know others will. As I've posted earlier, though I don't care for such shops, if it helps you pay the bills and doesn't sell anything that gives buyers an unfair advantage over nonbuyers, then I support your need for them.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm not interested in any game where I don't have an unfair advantage. :-)You sir, are tiny. For you to be equal you need some unfair advantages. (Although you can get into many places other players cannot, and you make Gnomes and Halflings look quite tall.
Oh, I've got plenty of caffiene addicted meatbag minions to do my heavy lifting. Ever seen someone without their morning coffee fix? That's my power.
BWA HA HA AHA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
@Hardin Steele, tbh the data suggests that most people who play MMOs and most certainly the folks who will play Pathfinder Online have pretty high disposable incomes. $15/mo is pocket change to most of our target market. It's less than they spend weekly on coffee.
Really? Good thing I never got into coffee, I guess!
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Buying ISK (game cash) does not provide huge long term advantages in Eve. Personally I can see three areas where buying ISK for cash helps.
- new players who might decide to focus on cybernetics early and buy high level implants early to train quicker (implants help you train faster)
- new players wanting to get into trade and need starter capital
- existing players wanting a particular billion ISK plus ship for an incursion or faction war by a certain fixed date.
As far as buying game time with ISK goes the main people doing it seem to be:
- high-schoolers who are strapped for cash
- longer term players who make such immense amounts of money they may as well just pay for their main and alts with in-game profits
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@Hobs: I think this article delves into why offering multiple revenue streams (given this is a digital product and a massively multiplayer game) are favorable; albeit a lot of current F2P games with MT models are a disaster for the game design - by Simon Ludgate: The F-Words Of MMOs: Free-To-Play
More or less to sum: Some players have time and others have cash to varying degrees and mixtures of these, so a mixed model allows the widest range of players to be able to monetize that suits each of them most appropriately.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
AvenaOats,
First, interesting article. Thank you.
Even before reading the article, I understood why games use cash shops. I simply choose not to use them, and as I've already posted, as long as they don't place those who do not to use them at a disadvantage with those who do, I'm all for helping GW make money to support the game we all hope to play. Mr. Ludgate's article seems to support this, at least by omission of any example where such advantages can be bought rather than earned. However, if I have to pay above and beyond a monthly fee simply to gain a level playing field, I'll be rather disappointed with GW, having already backed their efforts with $120.00. It's one thing to budget for a predictable monthly fee and quite another to find an ever increasing list of items or buffs you need to buy just to survive in-game. This would be the difference between GW providing things people have to buy vs. things people want to buy.
If GW wishes to sell cosmetic skins for items (a snappier looking sword skin laid over the crafted item you just purchased, better costumes, perhaps even pets...choose your horse's color?), minor buffs, vanity pets/servants, and skill training time for our alts, that's fine - even if you can't also attain these things in-game (leaves the incentive to spend the extra cash and create the extra revenue GW seeks...things you "want" to buy). However, raw materials, craftable goods, noncraftable goods that are better than what can be crafted, or unbalancing buffs would place those who don't or can't use such shops at a disadvantage and should be avoided.
Again, a good portion of my argument is out of concern for other players rather than myself. I have already stated that I tend not to be very materialistic in MMOs, so I find it easy to forgo the kinds of bells and whistles that sell in the typical cash shop. But anything sold that provides an advantage is, at least in my opinion, ethically wrong. We have enough examples in real life of the "haves" getting all the advantages over the "have-nots". At least in our fantasy escapism it would be nice if a customer who can barely afford, but is willingly to pay the monthly fee, has an equal chance to make good by hard work and dedication rather than by outspending his competition with real cash.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
That is very well written, Hobs, and chimes in with how I feel also. I can understand that it is a new world than when I started playing MMOs. With that world, comes a newer generation and that makes for new market opportunities that are very tempting. That being said, I hope, and actually believe, that GW will use some careful moderation in what they put in their cash shop. They are not idiots and they don't want to ruin PFO anymore than we want them to.
Now, how does that balance against the advantages that kickstarter people get for their $ spent toward the game? ;)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@Hobs: Agree. I'm not too worried as GW won't have a huge themepark mortgage to pay off right off the bat, has a steady 15$/month from the playing players, and seems to have a niche in the market with high draw for that particular market segment (ie a good match for the target audience as opposed to a general match for the widest market possible): Which all make for a benevolent as opposed to abusive cash shop, I think. :)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Trying to follow the philosophy of not just saying what I disagree with, but offering possible solutions, here are my suggestions for a cash shop in PFO.
First, I believe Mr. Ludgate is spot-on with his assessment of the importance of social networks in MMOs, and that not only are they the reason many people play, but they are an untapped source of income for game makers. Whether you play MMOs to hook up with your face-to-face, real life friends, your on-line friends (you know them only via the internet), or for the community in a larger sense, these are people you are likely willing to spend gold and even real dollars and cents on.
Given that, here are some suggestions (some repeated from Mr. Ludgate in the article AvenaOats has linked above and some of my own):
1. Make cash shop items useable by anyone. That is, do not link them to the purchaser's account. In this way, cash shop items can be easily gifted to other players who may not have the cash to buy them themselves. Many players of MMOs are generous, social, community minded people. We build meaningful relationships in-game, and thus, we have many people we would love to gift some of the snappy extras you find in a cash shop. Such items could also find their way into RP - a particular sword skin being the hallmark of a given CC (even if the actual sword each member uses had different stats), etc. If you do not limit the flow of these items to only those who can afford them, but allow generous players to open the floodgates of their sales, you'll hear the till ring far more often.
2. Similarly, if cash shop items are not account bound upon purchase, these items can find their way into the in-game markets. In this way, the two types of players (more time than money & more money than time) can both benefit. The player with real cash but little time to make in-game gold can sell a few cash shop items to those who have little real cash but plenty of time to earn gold. Again, if these cash shop items are not providing unbalancing advantages, I don't see this being an issue. Both players are getting something they want, GW gains another active revenue stream, and no one is placed at a disadvantage.
3. Social Buying
I had never heard of the term "whale" as Mr. Ludgate used it, but I'm certain they will be present in PFO with the proper structure.
Settlement Skins
I see settlements becoming the largest potential market for socially motivated purchases. If you have a system similar to Kickstarter, where backers (presumably from the same settlement) could drop cash into the bucket, you could have all manner of settlement skins and non-advantageous perks. Think of the architectural skins, building facades, street pavings, bushes, trees, fountains, etc. that a settlement's membership might be willing to purchase so their virtual home looks "just so". In this way, settlement members could donate and pitch in for the larger items. These would be no different than weapon or wardrobe skins, and the actual item (e.g. a tower) would still have to be crafted by those with the appropriate in-game skills.
Gift Shop Tokens
Being able to buy a cash shop item and gift it to another player would be wonderful. However, as most retailers and restaurant chains have discovered, giving gift cards is far easier and lets the recipient choose what they really want. Could we buy cash shop tokens (taking the form of a nonlootable but tradeable item in-game) that we could then gift to other players?
RP NPCs
I know there will not be many visible NPCs in the world, but from a RP standpoint, sometime having a scriptable NPC is a very handy tool.
a. A corpse that acts as a container into which the owner can place an item or two needed for a player-made quest.
b. A town crier (can only be activated in a settlement/point of interest that you are a member of) that can be scripted to call out a particular message when double clicked.
c. An informant that has a simple interaction menu and provides the information sought after the requested sum of coin is dropped on them
Most of these certainly don't take the place of real player characters, but they can also cut down on the potential tedium of a player asked to play these parts. I'm sure there are plenty of other such NPCs that players would pay a little real world cash to obtain.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
...for the niche market that PFO will cater to, would a subscription fee not be enough to keep the game running?
If GW's done the research we've every reason to believe they have, they probably have a pretty good idea of how much money they'll make from a cash shop vs how much they'll lose in customers taking their subscriptions and walking away.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Jazzlvraz,
You're quoting me from three posts ago. Having read Mr. Ludgate's article, I now better understand the use and need for a cash shop...and even presented other products it might sell (as seen in my most recent post in this thread - the one directly above yours).
Some of us, when presented good information, do actually change our opinions. :)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Great article, AvenaOats. Thanks for sharing.
The idea of supporting "whales" is very important to me, despite my being reassured by Ryan's statement about Goblinworks' desire for a "relatively flat revenue curve". In fact, it's at the heart of my suggestion (from ITT- Crowdforge the Cash Shop) about selling temporary access to the Theme Park elements in the game. My desire is for GW to capitalize on the fact that some players will gladly drop $100 (or more) to have a really fun experience with their friends.
The thing that worries me most about having Goblin Balls be the only thing that can be bought for real money and then traded in-game is that there is a limit to how quickly they can be consumed. I would be happier if there were some other thing that we could buy with real money and trade on the market that could be consumed almost as quickly as it could be purchased, or at least consumed more quickly than Goblin Balls.
I am also worried about the impact of only requiring Goblin Balls to earn XP, rather than requiring them to enter the game. I think Ryan shares this concern:
@Hroderich Gottfrei - our thoughts on "playing for free" are evolving. There will be some form of free play, that's a requirement in today's market where people want to try an MMO before they put in any money.
How long you can play without paying anything is something we're thinking about. We don't want a game full of folks who trained for 6 months, got reasonably competent, and are now playing without producing any revenue.
This is largely because of my conviction that players who use a single account should never be at a disadvantage to those who use many accounts - aside from the obvious "disadvantage" of being more easily subjected to discipline by Goblinworks, which shouldn't really be a concern.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Bringslite,
Thank you, kind sir. I note a more congenial air to your posts as well, since the Gobbocast 9 episode...not that you weren't cordial to begin with. At least for me, I've tried to be even more thoughtful about what I post, since learning how often the Devs actually read and discuss what we write.
And are those more smilies I see at the end of your sentences? :)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
On the subject of the Eve Titan mentioned above.
Even if a new player could some how acquire a Titan and had the half billion ISK to acquire the best available training implants (perception, intelligence etc) to get their skills up as fast as possible, they could not fly one at all without at least 5-6 months of training and would need another 6 months of training in fitting and weapon skills to actually do anything useful with it. So roughly a year training before your even barely capable of using a Titan.
@Neadenil
Of course such a player is also likely to have visited the character Bazaar and bought a character with the needed skills to fly the titan. The same player will then be laughed at when he loses said Titan on the first outing as though he has the in game skills to fly it he hasn't built up the knowledge of how to fly it for best effect and to keep safe :)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@Neadenil
Of course such a player is also likely to have visited the character Bazaar and bought a character with the needed skills to fly the titan. The same player will then be laughed at when he loses said Titan on the first outing as though he has the in game skills to fly it he hasn't built up the knowledge of how to fly it for best effect and to keep safe :)
Even with skills some things you just never fly solo in EVE, even in highsec.
Check out this guy ... loses a 15.5 billion Abbadon battleship (roughly $US460 ship with fittings) ...
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=8952687
.. and then a week later is out flying around in a 17.3 billion ISK (more like $US500+) Apocalypse battleship and loses that as well.
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=8889255
The first kill was in 0.9 space which is close to the most secure place you can gt. if your stuff is worth enough people will suicide gank you anywhere to get access to it.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The more troubling dynamic isn't so much the "buy the Titan" in EvE, as that's a huge one time purchase that can easly be lost.
It's actualy something more akin to buying "Gold Ammo" in World of Tanks. It's an expendible that provides some advantage (although not vast) but makes enough of a difference that it becomes a "Must Have" for Guilds engaged in competitive play.
It's usualy not the single big obvious thing but rather death by a thousand little cuts that all add together that start turning a game into something where competition is all about the players willingness to spend money.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
The more troubling dynamic isn't so much the "buy the Titan" in EvE, as that's a huge one time purchase that can easly be lost.
It's actualy something more akin to buying "Gold Ammo" in World of Tanks. It's an expendible that provides some advantage (although not vast) but makes enough of a difference that it becomes a "Must Have" for Guilds engaged in competitive play.
It's usualy not the single big obvious thing but rather death by a thousand little cuts that all add together that start turning a game into something where competition is all about the players willingness to spend money.
Yep ... in eve that is stuff like faction ammo .... but in the end trained skills and player experience count for more than expensive gear.
As for the Titans, they may be worth close to $8000 each in real money but they are not indestructible - three have died in the last week alone:
http://jestertrek.blogspot.com.au/2013/06/kill-of-week-case-of-dumbs.html
1st Titan:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=17961714
http://evenews24.com/2013/05/27/battle-report-tribal-band-goes-avatar-down- in-delve/
2nd Titan:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18015761
http://evenews24.com/2013/05/31/breaking-fidelas-constans-erebus-down-in-fa sse/
3rd Titan:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18051548
http://evenews24.com/2013/06/02/battle-report-black-legion-nails-another-fi delas-constans-titan/
faction ammo isn't purchased by cash however it is purchased using loyalty points which are earned in game. In addition when you purchase faction ammo you also need to provide the equivalent number of nor normal ammo of the correct type as part of the transaction
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
faction ammo isn't purchased by cash however it is purchased using loyalty points which are earned in game. In addition when you purchase faction ammo you also need to provide the equivalent number of nor normal ammo of the correct type as part of the transaction
If you are refering to EvE, that first part isn't true. A good part of a L4 mission grinder's income is based on spending LP, and selling those items on the market.
---
Throwing around these big numbers isn't really constructive to the argument, as they are very rare events, or unrealistic. The issue here really isn't debatable. There are two sides, people that are OK with putting more than a monthly fee into a game, and people who aren't. The bottom line is, GW stands to make more money with an RMT store, and 'gold selling' through goblin balls. There is a reason sole subscription games aren't working, and being converted, the market has changed from 2008-9's all subscription lineup, you need way more subscribers than any new game can accumulate, especially if you had a bloated development like SW:TOR.
I hate RMT stores, but I see why they need to be there and have accepted it. PLEX is probably the biggest innovation to come out of the market in the last decade, it corners the gold market, and makes 'free' accounts possible. The one thing I would like to see is the ability to convert Goblin Balls back into skymetal, to make nothing 'real money only'. STO's system is probably my favorite, it uses a 3rd currency, refined dilithium, that is earned doing specific activities and traded for high quality items, that you can also trade to players for 'Zen'. When everybody has potential access to everything, it makes things easier. That's how they can get away with selling 'better' ships in the store.
@Valkenr
When I referred to cash I was referring to real money not isk. I was pointing out that faction ammo has nothing to do with RMT but is a purely in game thing which it is. LP are earned running missions.
Yes people then resell faction ammo on the market but that still has nothing to do with real money perhaps you misunderstood what I was saying?
If not please point out where you believe real money comes into what I said
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@Valkenr
When I referred to cash I was referring to real money not isk. I was pointing out that faction ammo has nothing to do with RMT but is a purely in game thing which it is. LP are earned running missions.
Yes people then resell faction ammo on the market but that still has nothing to do with real money perhaps you misunderstood what I was saying?
If not please point out where you believe real money comes into what I said
Well assuming I am understanding the system correctly.
Real money can be exchanged for plex, plex can be sold for ISK, ISK can be used to purchase faction ammo.
Thus. while market supply/demand will certainly play a factor in curbing this (IE if all of the player base were crazy rich IRL and super lazy in game, there would still be no faction ammo, due to no one farming it). It still remains factual that 1 real world billionare, would have no trouble buying faction ammo with no effort beyond selling the plex and purchasing the ammo.
@Onishi
The isk may have been purchased using a plex, the isk was however at some point still earned by a player nothing is created by the use of the real money
The ammo is still not being created outside the game for every bullet there was a crafter involved. Most people here are not objecting to the cash shop full stop merely the breaking of the player economy by selling actual items in the cash shop.
Faction ammo has been part of the game for a lot longer than plex as well.
You are certainly free to argue for no cash shop, I would prefer not having one myself, however that is not something I have argued in this thread. Goblin balls or plex do have an upside or two to recommend them at least.
1) It levels the playing field somewhat between the time rich and those who are time poor.
2) It cuts down on gold sellers and by extension gold farmers
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@Onishi
The isk may have been purchased using a plex, the isk was however at some point still earned by a player nothing is created by the use of the real money
Exactly what I was saying, I went out of my way to point out the supply demand, and the fact that if everyone were to try and do such, no one would be there to farm it, laws of supply demand etc...
I'm not arguing against it at all, I was just disagreeing with the statement
Yes people then resell faction ammo on the market but that still has nothing to do with real money perhaps you misunderstood what I was saying?
Yes it's introduction into the world has nothing to do with real money. It is far better than many microtransaction systems in which people putting money into the game, creates items and lowers their value, as instead you move it to yourself, which lessens the items for others to buy, thus acting closer to a drain rather than a faucet. (IE the hypothetical rich player would likely be less stingy or cautious on his use of the items, and thus burn them faster than ones who earned it, thus lessening the amount in the game and raising their value)