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That a lot of the features they were originally trying to integrate looked like a blatant cash grab to me and many others.It's pretty hard to make that argument in light of the fact that one of their announced features (one that got so little attention from the people railing against the Xbox One, oddly) was the ability to share all of your digital content with up to ten other people, including while you're actively using it, on any machine.
In other words, it only looks like a cash grab if you're not paying attention.
Wasn't it eventually admitted that what you were actually sharing was a 15-60 minute demo, and not the full game?
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A community that busts out the torches and pitchforks before they have any idea what is being proposed (and doesn't bother to put them away once it's been clarified) deserves everything it gets.
And someone who becomes a full-on proponent for something before they have any idea what is being proposed deserves everything they get. You need to either admit 1) that you are a paid Microsoft shill, or 2) that, despite your condescending attitude through most of this thread, you don't have any more in-depth understanding of Microsoft's plans and intentions than anyone else.
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I love the fact that everyone who disagrees with you is a part of the 'angry internet horde'...Says the guy who told us that Angry Joe's stuporific, expletive-filled rant on the Xbox One summed up your thoughts perfectly.
But no, not everyone. Just the ones who were angry, and were on the internet. Feel free to opt out of that group! Ditching Angry Joe as your video game spirit animal would be a good start.
I guess my point did not come across clearly enough. I meant to say is that you tend to slap labels on people who disagree with you and hate something that you find appropriate.
Oh and sorry, but 35 thousand people is a small part of those who were outraged by microsoft's business practices and what the Xbone was originally meant to do.
Now if they bring back the family sharing model without any of the restrictions, that makes them reasonable. If not, just douches.
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Wasn't it eventually admitted that what you were actually sharing was a 15-60 minute demo, and not the full game?
Yes you could on play for up to an hour. Then MS would give you the option to buy the game and take out the time restriction.I prefer when I borrow a game from someone that I can play as long as I like.
MS wanted the XBone to be a kindle, but for games rather then books.
I am still laughing. Even though the dude who writes this comic can sometimes be a selfish douche, he can make good comedy.
Just go forward from there.
I'm ashamed to admit I actually used to enjoy reading CAD a while back. I didn't even see the big deal with the whole arc that made the entire internet complete flip its s**t at him about. It wasn't funny or good obviously (and wasn't intended to be funny), but it also didn't seem to be as offensive or "wrong" as others were screaming it was, just in poor taste.
But the man is the video game equivalent of a partisan hack, and I can't freaking stand it. Ever since Xbone has been announced, his strips relating to it have been in hardcore defense mode, or trying to deflect and redirect the laughter/scorn elsewhere (like in your linked comic, "hur hur, Wii U = mentally handicapped!" -- which actually IS offensive, too). He doesn't outright say Xbone sucks, it's always about how it's being attacked by people/media. Coincidentally, over the years, he's had NO PROBLEM outright attacking Sony and Nintendo and their executives.
The current strip arc is just him trying to make Xbone look like some sympathetic victim to big bad Sony.
Given how many people have been clamoring for a return to the Xbox One shown off at E3...So...you and ???
Well, I kinda wish it would return, so that it's dismal and complete failure could serve as a beacon to any and all other companies not to try such horrible mistreatment of their customers.
I'm tempted to sign the petition. Because I think if MS actually goes full-on with the policies they described, it will be as Kthulhu says.
It really would be nice for a company to fail spectacularly with policies like that, to serve as a lesson for all future consoles. Rather than one that only adopts some of the policies and only suffers some fallout over it, likely leading to gradual degradation towards the original goal.
I wonder how many people with the same sentiment signed that petition...? :D
Isn't anyone concerned that if a *big* console was a spectacular flop, it might significantly hurt the industry as a whole and limit future gaming options?
No.
No. A company as big as MS could absorb the failure and still be able to make a new console that learned from the failures.
Or they exit the market, and perhaps a new company tries its hand in the console market now that it's less competitive. My only fear is that company would probably be Apple, a company that makes MS look like gilded angels riding down from the heavens on rainbows as choirs sing hosannas.
I fear that any console debacle will just drive market share further towards handhelds, market share that will never return and help support the development of great console games. I wish MS and Sony all the best.
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Isn't anyone concerned that if a *big* console was a spectacular flop, it might significantly hurt the industry as a whole and limit future gaming options?
Sony had a disastrous PS3 launch, yet they recovered. The Wii U is currently a complete joke of a console, but it's not done any significant damage to Nintendo.
So no, not really. If both the PS4 and the Xbone flopped, then there might be a chance of the industry being damaged.
I have to agree with Scott Betts on windows 8 being excellent. I am a HARDCORE gamer. period. I own the X-Box 360, PS3 and I rebuild my gaming PC every year to a year and a half. I also pre-ordered a PS4.
Windows 8 is about 10 fps faster give or take than Windows 7 on my ultra expensive e-peen (being honest again)of an SSD with any given game on ultra settings. I tested this when windows 8 was new as I'm in the habit of dual-booting any newly released OS until I'm comfortable with driver maturity and software running correctly.
At first I didn't like it because of the tile screen constantly kicking me back to a normal desktop any time I clicked a shortcut. I didn't see much of a need for the tile screen if it only was going to boot me to a desktop anyway. I could go with or without it. I also missed the ease of a start button menu too, but I learned to live without it. Bootup time for windows 8 on an SSD is awesome with near instant functionality when you see the tile screen, I don't have to wait till my network initializes to hit the internet like any older OS.
That said, I don't believe PC games are "Thriving" at all, BUT PC gaming isn't going anywhere either. Hardcore gamers like myself still build rigs frequently, and developers will always use a PC to build the games for all platforms as well as pushing the "Graphics Envelope". Manufacturers like Nvidia and ATI will still build new and expensive graphics cards, Asus, MSI, Gigabyte, etc. will still cater to the high end overclockers club-type of gamers with motherboards, etc.
Consoles are pretty much for the layman/average gamer atm, some of which may go on to explore the PC gaming scene when they see the graphical differences, some just might become PC hardware junkies and become Hardcore wanting the best looking gaming experience as well as quality hardware.
TBH, the PC I built two builds ago (roughly 3 to 3 and a half years ago) still runs the games like Skyrim, Borderlands 2, etc. on a GTX460 with great visual options. A further $259 upgrade to a GTX 760 twin frozer OC from MSI or GTX 760 OC Windforce 3 from Gigabyte will bump those games back into high settings or better. This is mostly because games now are utilizing GPUs much better than they were years ago when a CPU upgrade was more vital due to GPU bottlenecks. So a $259 upgrade after 3 years isn't an expensive upgrade to an aging PC. You can also get a decent gaming PC for under 1k now easily.
Disclaimer*** As usual YMMV. :)
Except that no one outside Microsoft knows what exact form this will take. Considering their track record (see Technet's destruction) and the incredible unlikelihood of MS convincing publishers to give up 10 sales I think you're being overly optimistic. The extended trial model described in the admittedly unverified pastebin rant seems far more likely then the free sharing you believe it to have been.
Wasn't it eventually admitted that what you were actually sharing was a 15-60 minute demo, and not the full game?
Yes you could on play for up to an hour. Then MS would give you the option to buy the game and take out the time restriction.I prefer when I borrow a game from someone that I can play as long as I like.
NO.
Sweet lord, you people. And you have the gall to try and tell me that the people who are against the Xbox One policies know what they're talking about, and aren't just angry internet people more interested in keeping those pitchforks sharpened than in making sense of anything?
Multiple Microsoft employees came out almost immediately after that (now clearly fake) rant to say that it was not a demo system, and allowed access to the full game.
Why didn't you know this? Any of you? How do you manage to convince yourselves that you're informed enough to make relevant decisions (and, worse, discuss it on the internet like you know what you're talking about) if you missed something like this? None of you even bothered to look it up online! You just posted a rumor, and had it immediately "confirmed" by two other equally clueless posters. Anyone reading this thread who wasn't familiar with the issue would have immediately gotten the impression that the Family Sharing system was confirmed to be a demo system, which is not the case.
It's sad that family share isn't in the mix at the moment.
At the same time, their DRM policies were an attempt to decrease consumer ownership of the things they purchase. Including physical objects, which would eventually become useless (as game devices) once MS stop caring to maintain servers that performed the 24-hour check.
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Sweet lord, you people. And you have the gall to try and tell me that the people who are against the Xbox One policies know what they're talking about, and aren't just angry internet people more interested in keeping those pitchforks sharpened than in making sense of anything?Multiple Microsoft employees came out almost immediately after that (now clearly fake) rant to say that it was not a demo system, and allowed access to the full game.
Why didn't you know this? Any of you? How do you manage to convince yourselves that you're informed enough to make relevant decisions (and, worse, discuss it on the internet like you know what you're talking about) if you missed something like this? None of you even bothered to look it up online! You just posted a rumor, and had it immediately "confirmed" by two other equally clueless posters. Anyone reading this thread who wasn't familiar with the issue would have immediately gotten the impression that the Family Sharing system was confirmed to be a demo system, which is not the case.
It's easy to run damage control by claiming that the service that you can no longer be bothered to offer was going to be better than it actually would have been.
Not sure why this can't still be offered without the whole "must ping every 24 hours or the console is an expensive paperweight" thing.
@Sunderstone: How do you deal with the whole "half the games on Steam crash on startup in Windows 8" thing?
And no, this isn't a bash on the OS, I'm genuinely curious because I'd like to pass it on to a friend of mine.
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Wasn't it eventually admitted that what you were actually sharing was a 15-60 minute demo, and not the full game?Yes you could on play for up to an hour. Then MS would give you the option to buy the game and take out the time restriction.I prefer when I borrow a game from someone that I can play as long as I like.NO.
Sweet lord, you people. And you have the gall to try and tell me that the people who are against the Xbox One policies know what they're talking about, and aren't just angry internet people more interested in keeping those pitchforks sharpened than in making sense of anything?
Multiple Microsoft employees came out almost immediately after that (now clearly fake) rant to say that it was not a demo system, and allowed access to the full game.
Why didn't you know this? Any of you? How do you manage to convince yourselves that you're informed enough to make relevant decisions (and, worse, discuss it on the internet like you know what you're talking about) if you missed something like this? None of you even bothered to look it up online! You just posted a rumor, and had it immediately "confirmed" by two other equally clueless posters. Anyone reading this thread who wasn't familiar with the issue would have immediately gotten the impression that the Family Sharing system was confirmed to be a demo system, which is not the case.
That was my mistake. When you shared you shared the full game, not a demo verson. But it still could only be shared for up to an hour of play time IIRC. i aree with Scott in that MS people said it was the full game. But as far as I know you could still only play for an hour max under your gamertag if someone lent it to you.
Phishing or no, online petitions aren't exactly the pinnacle of scientific accuracy (re trolling, authenticity of signatures, possible repetition) or even a reasonable gage of potential customer feelings on an issue.
Petitions were trotted out by the anti-Microsoft crowd as soon as their policies were announced, and were held up as evidence of how unpopular those policies were (along with similarly "scientific" measures, like the results of an IGN.com poll). I didn't see any of you disclaiming those petitions then.
Regardless, the only reason I mentioned the petition was to show that there actually is support for what Microsoft was planning, contrary to what Kthulhu wants to believe. Whether a couple thousand of those signatures are illegitimate isn't important.
My criticisms of online petition apply equally :)
That was my mistake. When you shared you shared the full game, not a demo verson. But it still could only be shared for up to an hour of play time IIRC.
NO.
Come ON. I literally just linked you to an article with multiple Microsoft employees telling you, explicitly, that the family sharing feature is, in no uncertain terms, not time-limited.
It's easy to run damage control by claiming that the service that you can no longer be bothered to offer was going to be better than it actually would have been.
Multiple Microsoft employees have come forward to say the same thing. You can assert that they are all liars, and that they have managed to put together a remarkably coherent false messaging campaign (despite all the evidence that they fumble their messaging even when they're trying to deliver factual information, and despite the fact that time-limiting doesn't make any sense), or you can accept that the Pastebin rant was just another example in a long string of people trolling the gaming community to take advantage of how easily manipulated they are into believing something that lines up with their own personal unsubstantiated views. (For another would-have-been-hilarious-if-it-didn't-involve-harassing-innocents example, see the r/gaming witch hunt for suspected Microsoft shills that took place a month ago.)
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That was my mistake. When you shared you shared the full game, not a demo verson. But it still could only be shared for up to an hour of play time IIRC.NO.
Come ON. I literally just linked you to an article with multiple Microsoft employees telling you, explicitly, that the family sharing feature is, in no uncertain terms, not time-limited.
Well, that is good then. I hope that they return the family sharing thing for your sake, because i still won't be getting one.
I fear that any console debacle will just drive market share further towards handhelds, market share that will never return and help support the development of great console games. I wish MS and Sony all the best.
One console being a spectacular flop does not mean consoles as a whole would be.
Apple's computer business at one point was certainly a spectacular flop, did that affect the PC market at large? Obviously not.Yugo cars were a spectacular flop in the US market. Did that affect the overall car market? Obviously not.
Look at PS2 era for when a single console massively dominated the console market. Did that hurt the console market? Obviously not.
There is also good sides to such single-console domination, the number of 3rd party games that fully exploit said console's architecture.
And that didn't lead to a permanent state of affairs either, with new-entrant Microsoft's XBox/Xbox360 later entering the field.
@Sunderstone: How do you deal with the whole "half the games on Steam crash on startup in Windows 8" thing?
And no, this isn't a bash on the OS, I'm genuinely curious because I'd like to pass it on to a friend of mine.
BS is all I have on that. :)
I play Borderlands 2, Skyrim, Bioshock, Dishonored, Torchlight 2, Walking Dead, and Dawn of War 2 on steam with no issues. :) I'm not a fan of front end software needed to run a game but Steam has been good. Both of my Borderlands 2 teammates (my 2nd run through but 1st co-op) also use Steam in windows 8 with no issues. We play 3 times a week for a few hours each session with no worries.
Hm.
Some of my friends and many others I can see have been having this issue. They could run them all fine in Win7 and now can't play half their games after "upgrading" to Win8.
Bioshock 1&2 being two of the offenders.
It's kinda funny when the guy playing on a Mac (though to be fair I run Win 7 on a partition as well) can play more games than they do.
Maybe there's something else they have in common, or it only afflicts some users?
Iunno. Thanks for responding anyway. =)
Hm.
Some of my friends and many others I can see have been having this issue. They could run them all fine in Win7 and now can't play half their games after "upgrading" to Win8.
Bioshock 1&2 being two of the offenders.
Recommend they take a look at this thread. Bioshock appears to have some real issues, especially dealing with startup, across all platforms. The problems are attributed to either sound issues or improperly-downloaded files. Regardless, Bioshock is apparently working fine for most Win8 users.
Was the first place I looked (if you think I post here a lot, you should see my post count/rep on SPUF...). Not sure if they didn't work of my friend didn't try them. He has a bad habit of quickly becoming frustrated with fixes taking more than 30 seconds and then pretending he actually did them.
PEBKAC in that case though.
Thanks for the linky though.
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I still cannot work out how the family sharing thing would even begin to work out, economically, for anyone. They wanted to shut down second hand games with DRM, but were happy to only sell one out of five copies? Because that's what would happen. There would be plenty of people who just used a copy from one of the ten people on there list. It wouldn't be one in ten, because there would be some people who don't share, but...the numbers would still have to hurt. Given the effort they were putting into killing off second hand games, which would only be one or two people per game not paying them directly...
It always sounded to me like a desperate policy they threw out to try and stem the tide of hate, and now they're being pushed back into it. Which is kinda hilarious, really.
There was never a reason to cancel all the policies they had. An 'Online Only' sticker on the front of a box would allow those rare, special flowers who don't connect there Xbox One's to avoid a game that needed the extra power online provides, and it's not like they would have got that customer anyway before they dropped the online DRM check.
Rynjin,
Older games tend to have issues sometimes with newer OS but I have never run into anything with Steam and current games like Bioshock: Infinite. I no longer have Bioshock 1 and 2 installed since windows 7, I really didn't like either (though I wanted to).
Mass Effect 1 was a minor PITA to get running, requiring me to run the install in compatibility mode to even get the install exe. working, and I bought the new trilogy through Origin via windows 8 and assumed it would work straight "outta the box" with windows 8. Also file structures were all in different places between OSs that they were written for, so I had to move the save files myself between 1 and 2 (then again between 2 and 3 despite them being newer games) to keep all my decisions transferred to the new game. Origin doesn't even hint to the fact that you may experience this major problem but 20 minutes scouring via google-fu put me on the right track. Non-technical windows users would likely be pulling their hair out following the sometimes disjointed instructions from other user fixes, so I feel for your friends there.
Even great parts companies like Corsair screw up install programs. I recently bought the Vengeance 1500 headset and the windows 8 drivers/software wouldn't install in windows 8. I had to do two things to get that to run iirc, compatibility mode with XP and something else that escapes me atm. Half of my PC parts are Corsair (480gb SSD, AX850 Power Supply, RAM, Peripherals, Case) and all their other drivers worked fine though.
For the most part Windows 8 is fine but I can see older games having issues sometimes as companies don't seem willing to devote time and money into making OS upgrade patches on "dead" (corporate-wise) games. I have to give Microsoft credit for making the OSs essentially the same or close enough to it for software compatibility at least. :)
Rynjin,
Side note*** We originally had a 4th person for Border 2 co-op, he's a WoW ex-guildie of ours on a MAC. The first night he joined us and all was good, then there was a ....... "patch". And like all patches, it broke compatibility between PC and MAC for Borderlands 2 until a MAC update which oddly enough still remains unseen. We have pleaded with him for the past seven years to build a PC for games only (he can definitely afford it) but he refuses to. We have gone on to try other MMOs and co-op games without him. :( He still hangs out on vent with us occasionally but....
So I disagree about MAC folk seeming to have more games than win8 users. :P
My Steam tag is Xan if you add a pal.
I had the same issue with my buddy. Personally I see that as a Gearbox issue, not a Mac issue.
I wanted to swap to Win7 for it but the Steam Cloud no worky on my save for some reason so I would've had to start over.
I'll send you a friend request when my internet comes back on properly, maybe we can play some time.
News is breaking that the Xbox One will allow indie houses to self-publish, that every Xbox One will be able to function as a dev kit shortly after launch, and that the Kinect sensor does not have to be plugged in for the Xbox One to function. (The latter point has not been officially addressed by Microsoft, but is based on multiple sources confirming in the last day or so that they are being told at demo events that the Kinect is not required.)
Well of course. They want money.
Hwat
One of the biggest complaints about Microsoft/the 360 is how inhospitable they are to Indie developers being able to publish their stuff successfully.
And now they've changed their policies and made it easier.
Why is this a bad thing?
Eh. The Kinect thing was minor.
I don't think they lost many people over the Kinect alone to begin with. It was just the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back in this scenario.
Apparently the camel's back has been healed...
Or at least patched up.
The camel still remembers how it was broken in the first place, but he's willing to give his seemingly remorseful owner the benefit of the doubt for a while.
The camel still remembers how it was broken in the first place, but he's willing to give his seemingly remorseful owner the benefit of the doubt for a while.
Possibly they'll forget about it as the evil overlord slowly incorporates or hides its old ways until its happened anyway. Happens sometimes, but I'm not known for fortune telling.
I have a 360 and i bought it for Gears of War and a better experience for bethesda games like fallout and skyrim (bethesda seemed to have problems with PS3). Im not married it to though and would jump ship for ps4 since i hardly ever go back and play old system games once the graphoc differences become noticeable.
Without going back and reading through the bashing of the new xbox why would someone buy it over the ps4? Any talk of allowing community created mods for games (both xbox and ps4)? Are both now blueray? Which games were shown for xbox that blew anything for ps4?
Without going back and reading through the bashing of the new xbox why would someone buy it over the ps4? Any talk of allowing community created mods for games (both xbox and ps4)? Are both now blueray? Which games were shown for xbox that blew anything for ps4?
Kinect, XBone exclusives like Halo, or the voice commands for your TV. It wont graphically blow the PS4 away since it has weaker gaming specs.
Eurogamer is reporting that, contrary to what was widely believed a month ago, the PlayStation 4 actually reserves a full 3.5 gb of system memory for the OS - more than the 3 gb the Xbox One reserves for the same purpose - giving developers access to 4.5 gb of memory for gameplay (with something about an additional 1 gb of "flexible" memory that can be "reclaimed"; no word yet on exactly what that means for developers).