Requiem for the Red Raven [SPOILERS]

[draxynnic]

Greetings, all,

I recently ran the above module for a group, and have come across an ambiguity in the interaction between the module itself and the Pathfinder Society guidelines.

Basically, the situation is this: While the Red Raven escaped (just), the party contacted the Red Raven by using a message spell through scrying (using the dagger that the Raven used to kill Adril) and thus received the password in order to see his evidence implicating Adril. This meant Geppa was present for the encounter in the caves and, thus, they both had the password and someone to recognise the password when they reached that encounter, and thus bypassed the combat entirely.

This meant that they never had the opportunity to pick up the ring that controls the phoenix (or even know about it), and thus get the campaign point for that encounter.

The ambiguity is that the section on "Creative Solutions" in the Guide says that players who find a creative means of avoiding a combat encounter (and this counts) should get the rewards. However, the section in question talks about rewards in money and access, and talks about rewards for a combat encounter - freeing the phoenix is effectively a roleplaying encounter that follows the combat encounter.

For the record, if this was a home campaign I would have no objection to giving them a point on the basis that they also managed to rescue the naga (a personal agent of one of the Ten) from Condria's control - something that isn't listed as being worth a campaign point, but which possibly should be. Given that this is organised play, however, I'd like a precise ruling before I award (or otherwise) the point.

[Sarta]

Unfortunately, sometimes folks make decisions that are good ones -- or even great ones -- but miss out on a reward that decision circumvented.

It's like if there is treasure at the bottom of a pit trap. The party notices the trap and bypasses it, but in so doing, misses out on the treasure within.

In this case, the Red Raven, while a sympathetic character, is exploiting a magical beast. Freeing the phoenix it is to the advantage of the Pathfinders. If the party doesn't encounter it -- or even learn of its existence -- they simply don't get an opportunity to rescue it. This stinks, but it happens.

[Erik Mona]

I regretfully say that's my read on the situation as well. Sometimes the PCs make a good decision that means they lose out on treasure or rewards.

If it makes a difference, your group came up with a really ingenious solution and they have the respect of the scenario's author. :)

[Michael Meunier]

If it makes your group feel any better, we missed out on that campaign point for a different reason, namely the girl with the ring being unable to summon the critter due to the arrows in her throat. Missing out on one point probably won't hurt them in the long run.

[draxynnic]

Yeah, that was my read on the situation as well - you get the gold and magic for an encounter you bypass, negotiate through, or otherwise don't get to looting the bodies for, but don't necessarily get the plot rewards. (My party had a similar issue in Part 3 - we skipped the encounter with the ice witch in the engine room by teleporting directly to "Adril's" ship in pursuit.)

Anyway, I've passed on the "Respect of Mona" to them. :D

[Violetta the Enchantress]

And then there are those of us who killed the phoenix... twice.

It's fitting that the rewarded Pathfinders toe the mid-ground between too nice (your group) and not nice at all (my group).

:D

[John Compton]

Violetta the Enchantress wrote:

And then there are those of us who killed the phoenix... twice.

It's fitting that the rewarded Pathfinders toe the mid-ground between too nice (your group) and not nice at all (my group).

:D

Waddya mean "not nice at all?" Your group allowed at least a few creatures to survive...until they had outlived their usefulness...and/or enchantment spell duration.

Ah Violetta—may she never outgrow the planar binding of creatures with personality.

[Cardamus Ispherion]

John Compton wrote:

Violetta the Enchantress wrote:

And then there are those of us who killed the phoenix... twice.

It's fitting that the rewarded Pathfinders toe the mid-ground between too nice (your group) and not nice at all (my group).

:D

Waddya mean "not nice at all?" Your group allowed at least a few creatures to survive...until they had outlived their usefulness...and/or enchantment spell duration.

They were peasants and they were in rebellion. I do not apologize for my actions, but neither do I revel in them. It just had to be done.

[Griff H.]

Oh, but the feathered creature did fall.
Twice it did, fire and all.
Our team they conquered everything.
But never once did we think to bring
A kinder side, a more merciful fate
To those that dare to stand in our wake.
Punished we were for our ignorance.
I have regretted it ever since.

I blame myself, I know I failed.
I must try harder for the Decemvirate.

[CRobledo]

So we may be running this in a few weeks for some local friends. Looking into it, does anyone have a good idea for a miniature that can stand in for the red raven? I would be fine re-coloring an existing mini.

Also, is there really no good phoenix mini? May have to re-color a Roc

[Zandari]

I totally cheated on this one when I ran it - used a VTT and projected everything on a screen - no minis at all!

I do wish we had some colossal and gargantuan pawns, though.

[Bbauzh ap Aghauzh]

The team I ran through it nearly TPK’d against the Phoenix. They had to fight it twice (because of the resurrection ability).

They finally dropped Geppa, and the Phoenix had already killed their Barbarian who could get like a +40 something to hit. So the Phoenix looks at the gnome sorcerer and says, “I’m sorry my little friend, but I am compelled to continue trying to kill you,” <Chomp-Crit-Gnome at -22 out of 23 before death> “But if you get the ring off Geppa’s finger and allow me to swallow it, I will no longer be compelled to kill you all.”

So the Bard runs over, gets the ring off Geppa, and the Phoenix attacks another character and says, “You dumb<bleep> you gotta put it on your finger!” So the Bard says, “What if I put it on and make you dance?” Phoenix says, “If you do, I will kill your little friend.”

Bard puts on the ring, and says, “Ok, dance Phoenix!” So the Phoenix starts to dance and bites the head off the gnome.

[Iammars]

Ah, the Phoenix. I have lots of great stories from that Phoenix. The first group I ran through had a rogue who couldn't be seen (hellcat stealth/hide in plain sight/other shenanigans), so he kept using Spring Attack to get sneak attacks and re-stealthing. The guy with the ring got tired of that and eventually just told the Phoenix to firestorm the quarter of the cavern that they thought the rogue was in. They decided to retreat after that.

[WalterGM]

My team almost wiped on that phoenix.

To dodge some impending firestorms and heal up, my druid transported via plants back to Absalom and summoned a small entourage before returning. Meanwhile, the party got destroyed by the greater invisible caster and the phoenix. Our cavalier. who had been walled off in the back corner of the cave with a wall of force, broke through it right as I arrived to find everyone else in the party dead.

As we started to fight what was left of the baddies, the phoenix came back to life, and we noticed the ring change color again. As a final "screw you" to the caster before we both got slaughtered by the phoenix, I called out to the cavalier to sunder that shiny trinket. That'd teach him to mess with us.

Needless to say, it was the right call, and we earned that campaign point.

[Mattastrophic]

My group never encountered it. We decided that it would be best to not allow ourselves to walk into whatever traps the Red Raven left for us, and we realized that the Red Raven was not our enemy, so we teleported to the city and tracked down Cayle the Calistrian, who led us to the execution scene.

-Matt

[Jiao-long]

Finally got to play this!

I died in the first big encounter. I, er, misjudged the state of affairs. See, there were all these big threats in the main room, and I was injured enough that I was considering retreating anyway, and then we heard screams from the armory.

I thought, "Oh, I bet there's a thief in there, who's relying on all the combatants being busy here because he's not the sort who wants to be anywhere near combat; I'm not going to last much longer in this fight, but I could take somebody like that out, and no one else has the means to get there in time to stop him. I'll just dimension door in, take out the noncombatant thief, then return to see if there's a way I can help finish the actual battle."

Um, yeah. Didn't turn out that way. I got lightning bolt'd and bead of force'd before I could even announce what I saw. Dead as a doornail.

Did you know that when you come back with raise dead, each spell you have prepared has a 50% chance of being lost? Unless you're really unlucky like me, and it's more like 80%. I died an Eldritch Knight, and came back a fighter (but with fewer feats). Though to be fair, had I been a straight wizard, I'd have come back as a commoner. :/

[Mathwei ap Niall]

draxynnic wrote:

Greetings, all,

I recently ran the above module for a group, and have come across an ambiguity in the interaction between the module itself and the Pathfinder Society guidelines.

Basically, the situation is this: While the Red Raven escaped (just), the party contacted the Red Raven by using a message spell through scrying (using the dagger that the Raven used to kill Adril) and thus received the password in order to see his evidence implicating Adril. This meant Geppa was present for the encounter in the caves and, thus, they both had the password and someone to recognise the password when they reached that encounter, and thus bypassed the combat entirely.

This meant that they never had the opportunity to pick up the ring that controls the phoenix (or even know about it), and thus get the campaign point for that encounter.

The ambiguity is that the section on "Creative Solutions" in the Guide says that players who find a creative means of avoiding a combat encounter (and this counts) should get the rewards. However, the section in question talks about rewards in money and access, and talks about rewards for a combat encounter - freeing the phoenix is effectively a roleplaying encounter that follows the combat encounter.

For the record, if this was a home campaign I would have no objection to giving them a point on the basis that they also managed to rescue the naga (a personal agent of one of the Ten) from Condria's control - something that isn't listed as being worth a campaign point, but which possibly should be. Given that this is organised play, however, I'd like a precise ruling before I award (or otherwise) the point.

I'm a little curious how this worked to be honest.

Since scrying has a 1 hour casting time then the red raven is at least at the entrance to the maze (which is 300 feet from the back of the lodge). Message only has a range of 100ft +10dt per level for a maximum of 220 feet for a level appropriate caster.
Scrying says you can cast message through it but nothing about whether it changes the range limitation on that spell.
They should be able to observe him but not speak to him.

[Majuba]

Congratulations Jig.. Jiao-long, for getting to play this finally! :)

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

draxynnic wrote:

the party contacted the Red Raven by using a message spell through scrying (using the dagger that the Raven used to kill Adril)...

I'm a little curious how this worked to be honest.

Since scrying has a 1 hour casting time then the red raven is at least at the entrance to the maze (which is 300 feet from the back of the lodge). Message only has a range of 100ft +10dt per level for a maximum of 220 feet for a level appropriate caster.
Scrying says you can cast message through it but nothing about whether it changes the range limitation on that spell.
They should be able to observe him but not speak to him.

Being able to cast message and the detect spells "through the sensor" shortens the range. There wouldn't really be any point in casting any of those spells if it didn't work that way, since you're not going to scry on something that you have line of effect to.

[Lormyr]

Andrew Christian wrote:

The team I ran through it nearly TPK’d against the Phoenix. They had to fight it twice (because of the resurrection ability).

They finally dropped Geppa, and the Phoenix had already killed their Barbarian who could get like a +40 something to hit. So the Phoenix looks at the gnome sorcerer and says, “I’m sorry my little friend, but I am compelled to continue trying to kill you,” <Chomp-Crit-Gnome at -22 out of 23 before death> “But if you get the ring off Geppa’s finger and allow me to swallow it, I will no longer be compelled to kill you all.”

So the Bard runs over, gets the ring off Geppa, and the Phoenix attacks another character and says, “You dumb<bleep> you gotta put it on your finger!” So the Bard says, “What if I put it on and make you dance?” Phoenix says, “If you do, I will kill your little friend.”

Bard puts on the ring, and says, “Ok, dance Phoenix!” So the Phoenix starts to dance and bites the head off the gnome.

Your Zaliex was very angry!

Mine was more desperately hopeful it might find some semblance of freedom from the enemies of it's current captor. I don't think I would have had a NG creature take out it's frustrations at PC #1 being a giant ass on unconscious and helpless PC #2.

[Mathwei ap Niall]

Majuba wrote:

Congratulations Jig.. Jiao-long, for getting to play this finally! :)

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

draxynnic wrote:

the party contacted the Red Raven by using a message spell through scrying (using the dagger that the Raven used to kill Adril)...

I'm a little curious how this worked to be honest.

Since scrying has a 1 hour casting time then the red raven is at least at the entrance to the maze (which is 300 feet from the back of the lodge). Message only has a range of 100ft +10dt per level for a maximum of 220 feet for a level appropriate caster.
Scrying says you can cast message through it but nothing about whether it changes the range limitation on that spell.
They should be able to observe him but not speak to him.

Being able to cast message and the detect spells "through the sensor" shortens the range. There wouldn't really be any point in casting any of those spells if it didn't work that way, since you're not going to scry on something that you have line of effect to.

I understand that's the assumption but I'm not seeing anywhere in the rules that states that assumption is true. It's not a defined perk in the scrying spell or in the divination school, nor can I find it anywhere in PRD that says that either.

I'm just looking for the rules text saying it works this way.

[Jiggy]

Where does it say that the target you're scrying must be within the range of those other spells in order for those spells to work through the sensor?

[Jiggy]

Or perhaps more to the point, it says that detect magic (among others) "operates through the sensor". That means that casting detect magic while you're scrying is materially different than casting detect magic while you're not scrying. So what do you suppose that difference is?

[Mathwei ap Niall]

Jiggy wrote:

Or perhaps more to the point, it says that detect magic (among others) "operates through the sensor". That means that casting detect magic while you're scrying is materially different than casting detect magic while you're not scrying. So what do you suppose that difference is?

My question with that is that the range of all spells is from where you cast it to the limits defined in the spell. The detect magic spell says it's a cone shaped emanation from you out 60 feet. Scrying lets you see the target but doesn't say that the spell emanates from the magical sensor (Like eldritch conduit does).

Since that spell exists and is the official way of having a cone effect emanate from a point other than yourself and the scrying spell doesn't have that language then by the default then Message, Detect Magic, etc. spells should still come from the caster and fall under the range rules that are built into those spells.
Unless I'm missing something somewhere that says the spell can come from the sensor you should probably need to either use long range spells or get close to your target before you scry and fry them.

edit: best I can tell is Scrying gives you line of sight/effect to the target but doesn't override the range restriction put in place to prevent scry and fry tactics from working.

[Jiggy]

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Unless I'm missing something somewhere that says the spell can come from the sensor

Well, it says detect magic and friends operate "through the sensor". What does that mean?

You keep pointing out that it doesn't specify anything about altering the range or point of origin, but you won't say what the difference is between casting detect magic by itself and casting detect magic through the sensor.

The rules say you can cast detect magic through the sensor; we have to follow that rule. So what does that rule mean?

[Mattastrophic]

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Since that spell exists and is the official way of having a cone effect emanate from a point other than yourself...

Keep in mind that the text of scrying is fifteen years old. You might be RAW-ly correct, but I don't believe it's a good idea to use recent splatbook text as a comparison.

-Matt

[Mathwei ap Niall]

Jiggy wrote:

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Unless I'm missing something somewhere that says the spell can come from the sensor

Well, it says detect magic and friends operate "through the sensor". What does that mean?

You keep pointing out that it doesn't specify anything about altering the range or point of origin, but you won't say what the difference is between casting detect magic by itself and casting detect magic through the sensor.

The rules say you can cast detect magic through the sensor; we have to follow that rule. So what does that rule mean?

Well now you are making assumptions that aren't in the spell. The spell doesn't say you can cast through the sensor, it's exact words are

Quote:

In addition, the following spells have a 5% chance per caster level of operating through the sensor

.

You don't cast the spell through the sensor just that if you have the spell running it be used on something the sensor can see. It's base emanation point is still the caster.

@mattastrophic, It is an old spell true but the game is constantly evolving and new spells really help identify changes in the language. This one is just the first I've seen that highlights this difference.

[Qstor]

I'm actually running the Eyes of Ten for the first time starting this weekend.

This thread is old

but am I missing something

:

Or are there no compass points on the map of the Pathfinder Lodge?

Mike

[andreww]

When we played we...

Spoiler:

met Geppa at the end and rescued her from the guillotine. The Red Raven joined my collection of turtles which live in my ornamental pond alongside Tancred Desmire and others. I am honestly not really sure how the Raven is supposed to escape if you have even a single mildly competent caster in your group. His saves are atrocious so he falls over to pretty much anything pointed at him and suddenly Geppa isnt present in the cave encounter.

We avoided that one by charming the fighter from greater invisibility and convincing him we were there with the Ravens blessing although why any group which can teleport would bother using the Maze is another matter.

[bdk86]

Mattastrophic wrote:

My group never encountered it. We decided that it would be best to not allow ourselves to walk into whatever traps the Red Raven left for us, and we realized that the Red Raven was not our enemy, so we teleported to the city and tracked down Cayle the Calistrian, who led us to the execution scene.

-Matt

I honestly was so happy we had a small team and my Summoner knew teleport because of this once I heard how much needless conflict we bypassed. Plus, "chase me down through a cave system" reeked of "bad idea" given how much firepower the Raven's opening salvo involved.

[TriOmegaZero]

I am so glad my team is not going to have someone with teleport when I run this through them.

I mean, run them through this.

[Jayson MF Kip]

My four-player all-martial party didn't have too much trouble with this scenario.

Spoiler:

I choose to define "too much trouble" as six or more PC deaths.

[TriOmegaZero]

Thankfully, we DO have a druid now, after the cleric dropped out.

[Winnifred Hayley]

Jayson MF Kip wrote:

My four-player all-martial party didn't have too much trouble with this scenario.

** spoiler omitted **

Hey, at least I only needed the one raise dead. Oh, and the true resurrection, I guess I shouldn't forget about that.

slight spoiler for later part:

EFF YES AIRSHIP!!

[Lord Deacon The Diplomat]

My party had a good time with this one too.

Spoiler:

Our party consisted of a a crit fighter, a splodey sorcerer, a life oracle, cleric and bard Basically we had a TON of endurance and staying power. We kept casting different resist energies on the party, but got tipped off when the Phoenix kept changing types with the ring as a focal point as that, so instead of killing the Bird we went after the Geppa. Decided to non lethal her down so to get some information, after exploding Cale (what a dick) and got the ring off her. Surprise surprise when it joined our side! I asked if I could ride it into battle, it refused, so I then let it go. Sad.

[bdk86]

Winnifred Hayley wrote:

Jayson MF Kip wrote:

My four-player all-martial party didn't have too much trouble with this scenario.

** spoiler omitted **

Hey, at least I only needed the one raise dead. Oh, and the true resurrection, I guess I shouldn't forget about that.

** spoiler omitted **

I had a similar need for a Resurrection, but soaking the spell that killed me for what I did was totally worth it.

[andreww]

Jayson MF Kip wrote:

My four-player all-martial party didn't have too much trouble with this scenario.

** spoiler omitted **

My four player party was...

Spoiler:

Two sorcerers, one blasting and one control, a gunsligner/sorcerer/eldrictch knight and a halfling palading archer. For the first three parts we also had Charles, the planar bound Deva.

The encounter which is potentially the most dangerous out of the whole lot is the first, we finished it in about 30 minutes. Round 1 saw a golem and a worm dazed and another worm plane shifted, round two the second worm went for a holiday to the elemental plane of earth and the Raven became a turtle. The archers couldnt hit the broad side of a barn and quickly fled.

The rest of part 1 was mostly fairly easy although we struggled to justify actually using the maze when we knew where we were going. Datunga got 1 rounded by the gunsligner.

We skipped the Phoenix encounter by charming the ring holder. The last fight was mostly difficult due to an element of PvP as the Ice Devil was trying to destroy the guillotine while the gunslinger tried to protect it assuming he was up to something. Sadly Charles was very disappointed as summoning the devil broke our agreement and he left. The cleric spent most of him time inside a pit and we ran away from the incorporeal undead after they came very close to murdering our paladin.

Parts 2 and 3 had nothing remotely challenging. The air ship chase was particularly irrelevant as we had 3 people capable of casting teleport/dimension door so we just relocated to their ship immediately.

We had a PC death in part 4 to, of all things, a normal shadow. The final showdown was utterly anticlimactic as it is basically against a bunch of single classed fighters with poor saves in a big empty room. I think we stuck the Decemvirate member inside an Emergency Force Sphere until we had beaten the rest to a pulp.

While I enjoyed playing through the series a great deal Adril Hestram is a terrible opponent who cannot remotely do any of the things which are attributed to him. If multiple highly secretive decemvirate members can be located and murdered by an Int10, Wisdom 8 single classed fighter with nothing more than a few ranks in Knowledge: Dungeoneering and a +11 bluff then that suggests some pretty appaling incompetence on their part.

[Muser]

I'm running a party through the series right now:

Half-Orc(Katapeshi) Monk 11/Barbarian 2, Burburtep is as dumb as a pile rocks, but tends to cut combat time in half with his brutal power. Owns a pet rock and reminds everyone about owning a rowboat too.

Elf(Forlorn) Rogue 10/Fighter 3, Caladreil's seemingly the least powerful of the party, but drops some crazy dice when the situation rears its head. Assumed the guise of local superhero recently and let the group skip a combat.

Gnome(Taldan) Barbarian 7/Bard 6, Ennio is the party face and buffer...when the thirst for glory doesn't make him go...uh, Age of Enthronement on your face. It's really quite something to behold.

Human(Ulfen) Paladin 13, Jo is happy that enemies are smoteable again, but wonders when Aura of Justice gets a cease-or-desist order from upon high. Famously adopts every cursed, diseased or mishandled animal companion(Farmstead vanity!) and has a helm of comprehend lingo, but zero analytical skills.

Elf(Osirian) Witch 13(and Riddleywipple), Tuuli-Anna is a sleep therapist cum knowledge monkey who does some occasional teleporting. Riddlywipple is a pseudodragon. Nuff said. The pair tends to further shorten combat length with hexes and debuffs.

Currently they, after receiving an order to seek Odrian, are in transit to, well, scenario 3's whereabouts. Burburtep's suggestion to deploy his rowboat was vetoed.

[Qstor]

I just ran this for a 5 person party yesterday.

Spoiler:

Some of the bad guys seemed underpowered. AC 16 for a 12th level party? My friends archer was missing only on a natural 1.

The elf sorcerer failed his will save on feeblemind and that encounter wasn't much of a challenge.

The first encounter was tough. I almost killed two of the party members with the purple worms. But then one of the worms got plane shifted.

The phoenix encounter was tough until the Oralle cast communal protection from energy (fire). I almost killed a 12th level fighter but the next round the oracle hit him with a heal.

[andreww]

Qstor wrote:

I just ran this for a 5 person party yesterday.

** spoiler omitted **

The first encounter can be very dangerous but the main enemy has a major weakness as you noted.

Spoiler:

The phoenix encounter could have been troublesome as the ring wearer can change its eleemntal damage type to deal with resistances.

[Zandari]

As several of you have noted, this scenario does not hold up particularly well against a 6-PC party of folks with all of the various new toys available.

May I suggest that nobody run this for more than 4-PCs at a table? That's how it was designed, after all, and it makes it much more interesting for the GM. It also makes this easier to schedule.

[TriOmegaZero]

That is another reason I handpicked my table. I'm willing to go five, but no more.

[Viskous]

Ran it back in January for 5. I did manage to get a few notches in my belt, and the phoenix nearly got em all. But yes the new toys make this a fairly easy stroll through the garden.

The thing is, once Geppa sees them cast Protection from Energy(fire) she can as an action change the phoenix energy type.

It'll be a long while before I run that again. Thinking about getting a core character setup for it, eventually.

[andreww]

Zandari wrote:

As several of you have noted, this scenario does not hold up particularly well against a 6-PC party of folks with all of the various new toys available.

May I suggest that nobody run this for more than 4-PCs at a table? That's how it was designed, after all, and it makes it much more interesting for the GM. It also makes this easier to schedule.

We played with 4 and it wasn't terribly difficult although having 3 casters probably helped as well as access to various spells and feats.

I would be interested to see how well a traditional 4 man core party worked with tanky fighter, skill monkey rogue, healer cleric and blaster wizard. I suspect it is rather tuned for that sort of group and that a core group of druid, cleric, paladin, wizard would sill tear it apart.

[TriOmegaZero]

I'll let you know how our party of bardbarian, ranger, alchemist, and druid manage. :)

[Wraith235]

last tine I ran through this that phoenix kicked our trash

I took my ninja ... invis / stealth / reduce person Every buff our prty had .... and sleight of handed the ring off the guy in the middle

then turned the phoenix on them

[Muser]

Personally, Da'Tunga is easily the funniest opponent I've had the luxury of running. Sure, he goes down pretty easily if the players concentrate their fire, but the sheer thrill of having a giant freaking ape barreling down the ruined street and rearing up to beat his chest in roaring challenge is worth every hassle. The players loved him and I wanted him to return!

[CanisDirus]

I find myself in need of advice...

I am running this in about a week, and one of the characters is an Inquisitor/Evangelist of Pharasma, with the following power:

Decomposition (Su):

You can ensure the final rest of a creature. As a standard action, you can touch a corpse and cause it to dissolve into black ash. A corpse dissolved this way cannot be raised as an undead creature by any means short of a miracle or wish. The black ash left behind can, however, be used as the “corpse” for spells that return the dead to true life—such as raise dead—as long as the entire collection of ash is kept together.

Once the initial fracas in the scenario is over, I suspect the character will engage this power on any important *cough* corpse(s) and perhaps even carry the remains with her. Other than having an NPC object (and thus alert the PCs and players both to things that they have no evidence for yet)...any suggestions on ways to prevent that from happening?

Thanks!

[Belafon]

Mike Bramnik wrote:

I find myself in need of advice...

I am running this in about a week, and one of the characters is an Inquisitor/Evangelist of Pharasma, with the following power:

** spoiler omitted **

Once the initial fracas in the scenario is over, I suspect the character will engage this power on any important *cough* corpse(s) and perhaps even carry the remains with her. Other than having an NPC object (and thus alert the PCs and players both to things that they have no evidence for yet)...any suggestions on ways to prevent that from happening?

Thanks!

It would require a bit of expansion on the methods used by the friends of the NPC, but the solution is simply to let her do it without raising any alarms.

Because, what are they going to do with the remains?

Spoiler:

If they raise dead immediately, the the PCs will have no reason to do anything other than let the NPC "pursue his own investigations."

If they hand over the remains at the end of the scenario have them conveniently go missing.

Any other situation is handled by having the NPC's friends pay for a true resurrection. If the PCs try for a raise dead at the end of the scenario, it fails because the NPC is already alive. However they wouldn't know *why* it failed. It might be because the NPC does not want to come back. It will require a bit of GM explanation later in the series but nothing that needs to be particularly stressed.

[DesolateHarmony]

Kevin Willis wrote:

Mike Bramnik wrote:

I find myself in need of advice...

I am running this in about a week, and one of the characters is an Inquisitor/Evangelist of Pharasma, with the following power:

** spoiler omitted **

Once the initial fracas in the scenario is over, I suspect the character will engage this power on any important *cough* corpse(s) and perhaps even carry the remains with her. Other than having an NPC object (and thus alert the PCs and players both to things that they have no evidence for yet)...any suggestions on ways to prevent that from happening?

Thanks!

It would require a bit of expansion on the methods used by the friends of the NPC, but the solution is simply to let her do it without raising any alarms.

Because, what are they going to do with the remains?
** spoiler omitted **

That's really well thought out. Impressive.

[bdk86]

DesolateHarmony wrote:

Kevin Willis wrote:

Mike Bramnik wrote:

I find myself in need of advice...

I am running this in about a week, and one of the characters is an Inquisitor/Evangelist of Pharasma, with the following power:

** spoiler omitted **

Once the initial fracas in the scenario is over, I suspect the character will engage this power on any important *cough* corpse(s) and perhaps even carry the remains with her. Other than having an NPC object (and thus alert the PCs and players both to things that they have no evidence for yet)...any suggestions on ways to prevent that from happening?

Thanks!

It would require a bit of expansion on the methods used by the friends of the NPC, but the solution is simply to let her do it without raising any alarms.

Because, what are they going to do with the remains?
** spoiler omitted **

That's really well thought out. Impressive.

Eyes of the Ten is definitely an arc where the GM needs to be open and able to creative thinking and adaptive solutions from the players. There's just too much involved for it to sit on firm rails the whole time.