As a hero you sometimes forget how hard it is for the normal person to get by. As such I'd like to offer this little challenge (there is nothing to win. It is just for fun).
How could a normal person with a little talent and the will to work hard manage to get rich and powerful (because money=power). They are an everyman (or woman) who do not wish to risk their life and become adventurers.
The "hero":
Our average guy (or gal of course) is a normal human of 16 years. His parents are poor and he is not happy with that. Though he noticed he has some talent in a certain profession and sets out to the big city to try his luck.
Stats:
10/11 base with the human's bonus applied to Wis.
Feat: Skillfocus Profession(?????)
Ranks: 1 Rank in Profession(?????), Rest elsewhere
Equipment:
He arrives at the city with 1 set of peasant clothes and 10 silver pieces.
If he is content with the cheapest options, he can get by with 3 silver pieces per day (1 for food, 2 for lodging).
The city:
Largest category of city. It is (relatively) safe and civilized. Workers are needed and you can find a job rather easily.
Your skill in the chosen profession is 8, which means at average you can earn about 9.25 gp per week (minimum 4.5 - maximum 14). Bare minimum of food and lodging cost you 2.1 gp per week. This means you can put aside 7.15 gp each week (after 7 weeks of work you can afford a single cure light wounds potion ^^).
The challenge:
Can our "hero" become rich before his 20th birthday? If he works hard and does not divulge in any luxuries he can earn 1487.2 gp in these 4 years. That would be the baseline.
Can you increase the cash flow above that?
Addtional Info:
-He will not engage in any illegal activities.
-Due to the enormous size, the city has spellcasters of every level and their services can be bought for the standard price (the standard price of "spell level x caster level x 10 gp + costly material components").
-You can chose the profession he is good in.
Personal Note:
I got the idea when I was calculating how much a commoner could earn and was surprised that he could easily afford having a level 1 spell cast for him every other week (10 gp) and thought... that has to be usable somehow but didn't find anything worth mentioning. So the main focus would be to find nice combos of spells with a certain profession (of course I won't shun other ideas too if they sound logical).
Ideal would be long lasting spells with no material components of course.
Sadly permanency (the absolute minimum price is 2945 gp) is totally out of reach, unless he works for 8 years straight and even then the options are not really overwhelming.
He could get rich, but he can't meet any girls, go out for drinks with his friends, or otherwise blow have fun. Once he has a pile of cash he cannot have nice clothes, move into better lodgings, or purchase a mount - all things befitting a man of wealth.
Your plan seems to work on paper though.
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Your best bet is, rather than Profession, to be Int-based and have Craft. The level 1 peasant is an Alchemist with Heart of the Fields who consumes a Crafter's Fortune extract before each check for his earnings.
Reasonably, the character can expect to earn 135xp per week as RP experience, per the CRB (RP encounters are APL equivalent encounters and we'll assume that the character has one RP encounter as part of their crafting to sell the goods they've crafted). On Medium progression, he will hit level 2 in 15 weeks. This gives you an additional +1 Craft (Alchemy) from Heart of the Fields (1/2 your CL).
This trend continues up the XP table. Thus, by his 20th birthday, assuming this was his sole source of XP, he is 14th level. At 3rd, 5th, and 7th level, the character gains Prodigy (+2, +4 once 10 ranks are invested), Master Alchemist (+2), and Master Craftsman (+2), respectively. At 10th level, both his Skill Focus and Prodigy feats improve.
At 14th level, the young man has +14 from feats, +14 from ranks, +3 from INT (of course all 3 stat increases went to INT), +3 class skill, +7 Heart of the Fields = +41 Craft (Alchemy) for the purposes of earning cash. If crafting a specific item, this increases to +55 for the Alchemy class feature. This yields 25.5gp average per week.
Cirian Barnes:
I don't consider my example to be someone who is rich. Those are the minimum earnings of a slightly talented person doing their job and living a spartan life. That's why I was asking people to increase the money above that.
The black raven:
For the sake of this you can assume he can just put his money in a bank where its safe.
I assumed in the data given in the rules that taxes are already deducted.
Serisan:
I know that it is easier with the Craft skill because as soon as you push the value beyond a certain threshold you can make expensive stuff.
I intentionally focused on Profession, because that is what most people do. They don't create something, they have a job somewhere.
Having Crafter's Fortune cast on you though does seem like something every Smith, Alchemist and such would do before attempting a big project.
And yeah. How many people level up doing normal everyday stuff? NPCs don't get roleplaying experience.
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If you were to build Gunnar Smith, a Human commoner at level 1 with 12 int, skills: craft:Gun +8 (+1 rank, +3 trained, +3 skill focus, +1 int), craft alchemy: +5 (+1 rank, +3 trained, +1 int) with the feats Skill Focus: Craft Guns and Gunsmith and the heart of the fields trait applied to craft: guns and profession: merchant. I assume he levels up through roleplaying experience. It would go something like this:
Week 1: Gunnar hits the town, knowing a little about guns because a gunslinger recovered on his farm and taught him a few tricks, he decides to take up the gunsmithing trade and become an apprentice. He hires on as an apprentice with a gunsmith, a retired gunslinger in fact!
Earnings: +8 craft + 10 (I'm "taking 10" just to simplify the math. This would be slightly below the average) = 18/2 = 9gp - (poor living standards 3gp/4) .75 =8.25gp!
Week 2-3: Gunnar works for the gunsmith again. Earnings = 8.25 + 18 - 1.5= 24.25gp!
Week 4: Gunnar has some cash now and decides to get himself some tools for 15 gp, and he sets himself up in a tiny shack that doubles as a workshop, storefront and sleeping quarters, bumping his cost of living up to Average (2.5gp a week). He also hires an untrained commoner to spread the word that he's selling goods and another to fetch components for him(1.4gp/week). This takes him a day.
On day 2, with his 5.35 gp, he crafts 53 pellets and sells them to a musketeer for 53 gold.
Day 3: 53.05gp crafts into 2 silver bullets and 30 pellets for 530 gold to a wolf hunter.
Day 4= 530gp crafts into 1 keg of black powder for 100 gp, sold for 1000gp.
Day 5-6: Black powder. Day 7 3430gp (five copper tip to his two hirelings, who are sent on their way now.) Gunnar now rents a proper workshop (wealthy, 25 gp/week), hires a trained apprentice (2.1gp/week), buys some masterwork tools for him and his apprentice (130gp) and some trained salespeople to attract clients(4x2.1=8.4gp/week).
Week 4 earnings: 3300gp, plus renting a nice place with masterwork tools and 5 employees come week 5.
Craft: Guns skill is now +12 (+1 rank, +3 trained, +1 int, +3 skill focus, +2 tools, +2 aid another (I'm assuming our trained apprentice is hitting 10 with his base +7 (1 rank, 3 skill, 3 skill focus, 2 tools)
Week 5: Black Powder sales boom! 3300 + 7000 - 700 - 25 -10.5 = 9564.5gp
Weeks 6-30: Gunnar becomes the cities premier blackpowder producer and moves into the high life (250gp/week) He also hires some bodyguards (5 x 2.1/week = 10.5gp) 9564.5.5 + (7000 x 25=175000) - ([700+250+21=971]x25=23525) = 151,049.5 earnings. Gunnar is now a 3rd level commoner with the master craftsman feat and a +17 craft: guns. (3 ranks, 3 trained, 3 skill focus, 2 master craftsman, 1 int, 2 tools, 2 aid another, 1 trait) and a +7 profession: merchant (3 ranks, 3 trained, 1 int)
Gunnar can now set up several workshops of masters and apprentices working (4.2 gp/week per pair) and have them churn out 1000 gp of black powder a day netting 6295.8/week. Assume hiring 10 pairs/week for the shops and you have a net profit of 6296.8gp/pair. If Gunnar hires 10 pairs (that's 20 employees, plus 5 guards and 5 salespersons, 30 total) his profit, without ever working as a smith again, becomes 62968 - 250gp for his lifestyle =
62718gp/week
He of course buys masterwork tools for all his employees (-650gp), putting his net worth now at 150,399.5
By the end of the year, without any more improvements, he is a level 4 commoner and is worth:
1,530,845.5gp
By age 17, Gunnar Smith is a level 4 commoner millionaire.
Perhaps there would be a few more taxes and some of the hireling costs would be higher and maybe a little more overhead or time to get the business rolling, but I think taxing 500,000gp for those things would be fair and still puts us over the top.
Gunsmiths: Doing in one day what takes others weeks.
I like to think for the three years after becoming a millionaire, Gunnar decided to take up the gun and use his money to safely tag along with real Gunslingers. By age 20, he is a Level 4 commoner/level 10 gunslinger who has crafted himself a badass +3 pepperbox rifle of seeking and speed.
His business providing our unnamed sprawling metropolis with all it's gunpowder needs is still very successful.
Dr. Calvin Murgunstrumm:
Your calculation has a little flaw. If guns and black powder are so commonly known that a simple peasant from the land knows how to create it and can sell so much of this stuff to become a millionaire, then it must mean in this setting that guns are very common and you have to cut the prices down to 10% of the usual price.
Guns Everywhere: Guns are commonplace. Early firearms are seen as antiques, and advanced firearms are widespread. Firearms are simple weapons, and early firearms, advanced guns, and their ammunition are bought or crafted for 10% of the cost listed in this chapter. The gunslinger loses the gunsmith class feature and instead gains the gun training class feature at 1st level.
_____________
Initially I wrote the first post because I thought a combination like Plant Growth and Profession(florist) or (herbalist) or (farmer) would be a cool way to explain how some NPCs got rich in the world.
However I realize now, that there is nothing in the rules saying how that would change your income, since the spells effect tangible objects and not the profession itself. That is probably why everyone is jumping towards craft because that has tangible objects with prices that can be calculated.
However I didn't want to use craft because everyone just assumes you can craft something and then in an instant sell them, regardless of demand.
But as it seems both skills are not easy to estimate.
Isn't perform the best paying skill?
Dr. Calvin Murgunstrumm:
Your calculation has a little flaw. If guns and black powder are so commonly known that a simple peasant from the land knows how to create it and can sell so much of this stuff to become a millionaire, then it must mean in this setting that guns are very common and you have to cut the prices down to 10% of the usual price.
Guns Everywhere: Guns are commonplace. Early firearms are seen as antiques, and advanced firearms are widespread. Firearms are simple weapons, and early firearms, advanced guns, and their ammunition are bought or crafted for 10% of the cost listed in this chapter. The gunslinger loses the gunsmith class feature and instead gains the gun training class feature at 1st level._____________
Initially I wrote the first post because I thought a combination like Plant Growth and Profession(florist) or (herbalist) or (farmer) would be a cool way to explain how some NPCs got rich in the world.
However I realize now, that there is nothing in the rules saying how that would change your income, since the spells effect tangible objects and not the profession itself. That is probably why everyone is jumping towards craft because that has tangible objects with prices that can be calculated.
However I didn't want to use craft because everyone just assumes you can craft something and then in an instant sell them, regardless of demand.But as it seems both skills are not easy to estimate.
Well, even at at 10% reduction, Gunnar makes 150,000 GP, outperforming our base hero by 149,000 GP. And Gunnar does it in a quarter of the time. And without trying for a third of the year.
And if he was still in an emerging gun economy, he might have just been the first one to see the opportunity and seize upon it. Perhaps he spends his first two weeks under an alchemist instead to earn his start up, maybe it takes him a month instead of two weeks to buy his own tools. Black Powder is useful for more than just guns.
The point is though, despite my exploitation of gunsmith's ridiculous craft times compared to other things, the model of an artisan investing his capital into a small factory is EXACTLY what happened in the middle ages and it led to guilds and the birth of capitalism.
There is no mechanic for supply and demand, so it's really DM fiat. I assumed the challenge assumes a market exists.
Tom Brown is a commoner who grew up as much on the street as off it. He has the Vagabond child trait (Sleight of Hand) and has learned to entertain crowds as well as make meals out of any food to hand.
Level 1 feat: Skill Focus: Profession (cook)
Human bonus feat: Skill Focus: Sleight of Hand
Skills: Profession (cook) 1 rank +3 (class skill) +1 (Wis) +3 (feat) = +8
Sleight of Hand: 1 rank +3 (class skill) +1 (trait bonus) +3 (feat) = +8
During the day he works as a cook. At night he goes out on the streets performing feats of legerdemain (using Sleight of Hand as Perform) for the crowds and the tavern dwellers earning 1d10 silver a day (average 5.5sp a day, 3.85gp a week).
Assuming he takes 10 for all checks -
After 5 weeks of this, he has earned enough to buy a Masterwork tool (Sleight of Hand) for 50gp, bumping his skill to +10 and tripling his average entertainment income to 3d10sp a night (average 16.5sp a night or 11.55gp a week)
After 3 weeks of improved income, he also buys a set of masterwork tools (cook), bringing his daytime earnings to an average of 10.25gp gross income or 8.15gp a week after bed and board. His total income after expenses is now 21.8gp a week.
If he does nothing more to improve his income, he earns 4371.10gp profit by the time he reaches 20.
Just a note for folks who say to go Craft as opposed to other skills of employment: economy depends on supply and demand. People will always need food; merchants can sell anything; a weaponsmith needs a steady supply of both customers AND iron.
For this reason I submit that Profession or Performance are the most consistent forms of income assuming an average settlement. Entertainments are rare, but then so are those willing to pay for them. Of these 2 skills, Performance is superior in a stable, living wage.
At HBP: I love that you went Cook for a profession. I imagine Tom leaving the city after a while, so as to go up levels. He moves from village to village, solving problems as much with his skills as with combat. In time he gains levels in Ranger but, in so doing, takes the feat Catch Off Guard. Along with his 2 weapon fighting, he's going kitchen knife and frying pan, or maybe pot and pan.
For a backup he's got a rolling pin, maybe a bread board. Tom Brown also continues juggling and entertaining his customers with his legerdemain, adding in Acrobatics as well. Somewhere down the line he takes the feat Throw Anything, incorporating pans and bowls and bottles and plates, melons and spice vials into his act.
I know this COMPLETELY violates the thread, but this is just an awesome character I now want in my game.
I still stand by my original conjecture though: in order of most stable jobs, I maintain it goes Profession, then Performance, then Craft.
And yeah. How many people level up doing normal everyday stuff? NPCs don't get roleplaying experience.
Are you so sure?
Queen CR 10
XP 9,600
Human aristocrat 12
Experience = knowledge gained by overcoming adversity or conflict. This is why the CRB gives the option for GMs to award experience for non-combat encounters.
Human commoner 1: I need filling for today's meat pies. I have the meat, but I need some spices. What can I get for 1 SP?
Spice Merchant: not much I'm afraid; only perhaps a small bit of chives or dried coriandor seed.
Human commoner 1: But...I've never cooked with those before! Bloody hells; the lunch rush will be on in a couple hours and I've only got the ovens for a bit between bread rises...give me the spices.
Conflict: how to cook with something never used before?
Resolution: after a tough negotiation Tom got a good deal on the spice and was able to pick up a pomegranete as well. Thinking quickly he scooped the seeds, pulped them in a bit of water and created a slurry with the corriandor. He then used this to simmer the meat until at last adding them into the filling of carrots, potatoe and garlic. The sweet but salty mixture not only did well but also helped bind the filling and extend the mix into a few extra pies (risked a skill check instead of taking a 10; got a 13).
People liked the syrupy mincemeat for some reason. He used the chives (since there were fewer of these) as well as some flowers he..."obtained" from nearby gardens to garnish the pies, making them more attractive to the customers. All went better than planned and Tom made more than he expected that day!
He learned how to use a new spice and as well was encouraged by his work to begin branching into braising liquids and filling gravies. This is the practical application of the 100 experience he just earned. Overcoming adversity is the very ESSENCE of the commoner's lifestyle in real life. EVERY day was hard for these people and they were constantly having to find ways to make do. Some of these people, with the opportunity to live and work in a city where they had opportunity to improve, became the middle class and after that the merchant aristocracy. HOW could that happen if not for earning experience?
It is in our nature to improve. Give the NPCs experience.
Without delving too deeply into the math and XP arguments, I'd say make his Profession skill be Soldier and put other skill ranks in Survival. He'll earn XP on the job and can save all income by using Survival to live off the land. Just an idea...
The Pale :)
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I have a problem with this whole exercise. What prevents any and all NPC from doing that ?
Within a little more than 4 years, you make enough money for a 4th-level NPC gear.
A kid could work as early as 12 years old. By 16, he has 4th-level NPC gear. By 20, he has 6th-level NPC gear. By 40, he has 11th-level NPC gear and by 60, he has 13th-level NPC gear.
Why are there still poor NPCs on the streets of the world and peasants in the fields ?
Best I can come up with is this:
Go with profession (fortune-teller)
Spend your 10 silver on a common fortune-teller's deck. (Needed for the profession).
After 4 weeks our Hero can buy a quality fortune-teller deck, getting a +1 on the check. Netting an average of 9.75gp a week. After another 4-5 weeks, he can buy a masterwork deck, getting a total +2 on the check bringing the income up to 10.25gp/week.
Edit:After making 1,000gp, buy a Robe of Infinite Twine. Every 5 rounds (30 seconds) you can get 50' of hemp rope which sells for .5gp.
Now, if we assume you do this for 8hrs/day instead of your profession, we get 8 hours * 60 minutes = 480 minutes in a workday. It takes half a minute per section of rope. so we get 960 50' lengths a day. Which means 480gp a day. Or 2400/week. Suddenly we are rich!
Taxes, theft, irregularities in the market, famine, plague, war, fires, accidents.
And most of all, human fallibility: What if you cannot muster the willpower to save your money? Maybe you want a good meal. Maybe you want nice things. Maybe you want furniture, beer, nice clothes, a wood-carving of a horse, a new pair of curtains. Maybe your food spoils, maybe you are bad at accounting. Maybe you fall in love and have children and need to care for them as well. Maybe you gamble, maybe you smoke, maybe you get mugged, maybe you drop your wallet, maybe you get conned. Maybe you injure someone and have to pay reparations, maybe you get fined, maybe you cannot find demand for your services.
The world conspires against the poor commoner, at every turn. That is probably why many people keep doing what they know, and the everyday routine, does not earn them any real exp. So Jack the farmhand earns his cash, has his expenses, and earns no noteworthy experience 300 days of the year, because he keeps doing what he knows.
-Nearyn
Just a note for folks who say to go Craft as opposed to other skills of employment: economy depends on supply and demand. People will always need food; merchants can sell anything; a weaponsmith needs a steady supply of both customers AND iron.
For this reason I submit that Profession or Performance are the most consistent forms of income assuming an average settlement. Entertainments are rare, but then so are those willing to pay for them. Of these 2 skills, Performance is superior in a stable, living wage.
...
I still stand by my original conjecture though: in order of most stable jobs, I maintain it goes Profession, then Performance, then Craft.
Then why did trade guilds dominate the economies of early medieval europe? Not farmers, not singers, artisans.
You are correct that supply and demand influence the economy, but the OP has provided us a sprawling metropolis where any spell can be had at any time. If there are enough spell components to do so, there is enough iron or salt-peter or whatever to be an artisan.
And perform is based on supply and demand too: Hard times? Famine? No coins for you street peddler. There's a reason that only a handful of actors (and I mean this almost literally, like 4-10) were rich in Elizabethan England. Compare that to the thousands of up and coming bourgeoisie who were artisans.
Also, what profession wasn't rooted in supply and demand? Farmers have to sell their crops, fishermen need to sell their fish, miners need to sell their ore. The profession rules, as Karuth said, don't cover production of goods, even though many of them are involved in production of goods. The DM could just as easily say "well, this is the tenth year of good harvests, so the grain market has bottomed out, noone needs your grain" or "the storms at sea and the kraken that's taken residence in the harbour has made it nigh impossible to get a ship out of port, no sailing for you."
This is why, using the rules, which presume all things can be bought and sold in a major metropolis, and not DM fiat about the market economy, the best earners are Feat: Gunsmith (7000gp/week), Craft(90gp/week), Perform (75gp/week), and profession (25gp/week). Numbers are loose estimates, but they're pretty close. Perform and craft might flip-flop, depending on time and whatnot, but profession is decidedly the worst earner. Which reflects real world economies too: labourers>celebrities>manufacturers>technology firms. The cutting edge has always been where the money is. Gunnar Smith is Golarion's Bill Gates.
Best I can come up with is this:
Go with profession (fortune-teller)
Spend your 10 silver on a common fortune-teller's deck. (Needed for the profession).
After 4 weeks our Hero can buy a quality fortune-teller deck, getting a +1 on the check. Netting an average of 9.75gp a week. After another 4-5 weeks, he can buy a masterwork deck, getting a total +2 on the check bringing the income up to 10.25gp/week.Edit:After making 1,000gp, buy a Robe of Infinite Twine. Every 5 rounds (30 seconds) you can get 50' of hemp rope which sells for .5gp.
Now, if we assume you do this for 8hrs/day instead of your profession, we get 8 hours * 60 minutes = 480 minutes in a workday. It takes half a minute per section of rope. so we get 960 50' lengths a day. Which means 480gp a day. Or 2400/week. Suddenly we are rich!
Nice.
I have a problem with this whole exercise. What prevents any and all NPC from doing that ?
Within a little more than 4 years, you make enough money for a 4th-level NPC gear.
A kid could work as early as 12 years old. By 16, he has 4th-level NPC gear. By 20, he has 6th-level NPC gear. By 40, he has 11th-level NPC gear and by 60, he has 13th-level NPC gear.
Why are there still poor NPCs on the streets of the world and peasants in the fields ?
Laziness.
There was a LONG thread on the old WOTC forums with someone doing this very thing.
A lot more interesting than you would think, but it requires the DM to be very creative.
You mean Joe Wood? Thanks - that was a fun campaign.
As a hero you sometimes forget how hard it is for the normal person to get by. As such I'd like to offer this little challenge (there is nothing to win. It is just for fun).
How could a normal person with a little talent and the will to work hard manage to get rich and powerful (because money=power). They are an everyman (or woman) who do not wish to risk their life and become adventurers.
The "hero":
Our average guy (or gal of course) is a normal human of 16 years. His parents are poor and he is not happy with that. Though he noticed he has some talent in a certain profession and sets out to the big city to try his luck.Stats:
10/11 base with the human's bonus applied to Wis.
Feat: Skillfocus Profession(?????)
Ranks: 1 Rank in Profession(?????), Rest elsewhere
Oddly specific. I'd prefer Craft skills. I'll do one with both.
Equipment:
He arrives at the city with 1 set of peasant clothes and 10 silver pieces.
If he is content with the cheapest options, he can get by with 3 silver pieces per day (1 for food, 2 for lodging).
That's plenty.
The challenge:
Can our "hero" become rich before his 20th birthday? If he works hard and does not divulge in any luxuries he can earn 1487.2 gp in these 4 years. That would be the baseline.Can you increase the cash flow above that?
We can find out.
Addtional Info:
-He will not engage in any illegal activities.
-Due to the enormous size, the city has spellcasters of every level and their services can be bought for the standard price (the standard price of "spell level x caster level x 10 gp + costly material components").
-You can chose the profession he is...
Spiffy.
Commoner Guy with Dreams
Feats: Skill Focus (Profession: Trader), Skill Focus (Craft: Jewelry).
Skills: Craft (Jewelry) +7, Profession (Trader) +8, Handle Animal +4
Month #1
Week #1: Takes 10 on Profession check. Makes 9 gold pieces. Spends 5 gp on artisan tools 4 gp worth of gold.
Week #2: Begins crafting gold rings. Taking 10 on a DC 15 craft check, he creates a ring worth 12gp as a trade good and trades it for 8 gp worth of gold and uses the other 4 gp to pay his expenses this month and pockets the remaining 1 gp.
Week #3: Crafts more rings. He creates 25.5 gp worth of rings this week as trade goods (17 gp profit).
Week #4: Crafts 25.5 gp worth of rings for 17 gp worth of profit. Now has 35 gp banked.
Earnings:
Month #2
Week #1: Repeats making 17 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 17 gp, purchases mwk tool (+2 Craft), pays rent for next 3 months, pockets 5 silver for recreational use.
Week #3: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 19 gp.
Earnings: 39.5 gp banked + 3 months rent paid in advance.
Month #3
Week #1: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 19 gp.
Earnings: 115.5 gp banked.
Month #4
Week #1: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 19 gp.
Earnings: 191.5 gp banked.
Month #5
Week #1: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 19 gp.
Earnings: 258.5 gp banked + 3 months rent prepaid.
Month #6
Week #1: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 19 gp.
Earnings: 334 gp banked.
Month #7
Week #1: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 19 gp.
Earnings: 410 gp banked.
Month #8
Week #1: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 19 gp.
Earnings: 475 gp banked + 3 months prepaid rent.
Month #9
Week #1: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 19 gp.
Earnings: 551 gp banked.
Month #10
Week #1: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 19 gp.
Earnings: 627 gp banked.
Month #11
Week #1: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 19 gp.
Earnings: 694 gp banked + 3 months prepaid rent.
Month #12
Week #1: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 19 gp.
Earnings: 770 gp banked.
END YEAR #1 Our commoner has a birthday and researches methods of improving his financial standing. He looks into magical means if increasing efficiency.
Month #13
Week #1: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 19 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 19 gp. Purchases a single use command word item of CL 5 animate dead for 790 gp that is good for 10 HD from a local neutral-aligned temple. Then buys 10 dead raccoons from a trapper at 5 gp each (not sure what the cost of a dead raccon is so I paid for living raccons, but we can assume they were already dead and he donated the meat and skins to the poor). He then activates the magic item and animates them as 1 HD raccoon skeletons that follow his commands.
Earnings: 6 gp banked.
Month #14
Week #1: Since he can oversee untrained laborers he puts the undead raccoons (who have an effective craft modifier of +0) to work in his shop to increase his efficiency. Each raccoon takes 10 on their Craft (Jewelry) check and brings a total of 50 gp. He takes a vacation.
Week #2: Repeats making 69 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 69 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 69 gp.
Earnings: 257 gp banked + 3 months prepaid rent.
Month #15
Week #1: Repeats making 69 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 69 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 69 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 69 gp.
Earnings: 533 gp banked.
Month #16
Week #1: Repeats making 69 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 69 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 69 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 69 gp.
Earnings: 809 gp banked.
Month #17
Week #1: Repeats making 69 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 69 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 69 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 69 gp. Purchases another single use animation device and more critters with dextrous hands.
Earnings: 236 gp banked + 3 months prepaid rent.
Month #18
Week #1: Repeats making 119 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 119 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 119 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 119 gp.
Earnings: 712 gp banked.
Month #19
Week #1: Repeats making 119 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 119 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 119 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 119 gp. Purchases more undead workers.
Earnings: 348 gp banked.
Month #20
Week #1: Repeats making 169 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 169 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 169 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 169 gp. Purchases more undead workers.
Earnings: 184 gp banked.
Month #21
Week #1: Repeats making 219 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 219 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 219 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 219 gp. Purchases more undead workers.
Earnings: 211 gp banked + 3 months prepaid rent.
Month #22
Week #1: Repeats making 269 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 269 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 269 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 269 gp. Purchases more undead workers.
Earnings: 445 gp banked.
Month #23
Week #1: Repeats making 319 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 319 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 319 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 319 gp. Purchases more undead workers (x2)
Earnings: 885 gp banked.
Month #24
Week #1: Repeats making 419 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 419 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 419 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 419 gp. Purchases more undead workers (x3)
Earnings: 32 gp banked + 3 months prepaid rent.
END YEAR #2 Our commoner has capitalized on the resources available to him and industrialized his business. He now currently has many tiny size workers with dextrous hands working on jewelry each day under his supervision. Only two years ago he was a young man with nothing more than 30 copper pieces to his name.
Month #25
Week #1: Repeats making 569 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 569 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 569 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 569 gp. Purchases more undead workers (x2)
Earnings: 626 gp banked.
Month #26
Week #1: Repeats making 669 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 669 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 669 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 669 gp. Purchases more undead workers (x3)
Earnings: 782 gp banked.
Month #27
Week #1: Repeats making 819 gp.
Week #2: Repeats making 819 gp.
Week #3: Repeats making 819 gp.
Week #4: Repeats making 819 gp. Purchases more undead workers (x4)
Earnings: 689 gp banked + 3 months prepaid rent.
Month #28
Week #1: Repeats making 1,019 gp. Purchase more undead workers.
Week #2: Repeats making 1,069 gp. Purchase more undead workers.
Week #3: Repeats making 1,119 gp. Purchase more undead workers.
Week #4: Repeats making 1,169 gp. Purchases more undead workers (x3).
Earnings: 225 gp banked.
....................................
Okay, that's enough I think. >.>
All you need is undead slave labor? Sounds like the rise of a villain...
All you need is undead slave labor? Sounds like the rise of a villain...
Well, perhaps. I'm not sure exactly how villainous a standing army of necklace making raccoons are though. They don't even carry rabies. Hahaha. :P
All you need is undead slave labor? Sounds like the rise of a villain...Well, perhaps. I'm not sure exactly how villainous a standing army of necklace making raccoons are though. They don't even carry rabies. Hahaha. :P
Well if his village/city only has commoners, its not so much a threat that there is a single raccoon but that there are over 400 of them.
Edit: Also, the village is going to be flooded with jewelry made by raccoons. Not sure how the quality control works there, but I don't see raccoons making great jewelry. Particularly the dead kind.
Well if his village/city only has commoners, its not so much a threat that there is a single raccoon but that there are over 400 of them.All you need is undead slave labor? Sounds like the rise of a villain...Well, perhaps. I'm not sure exactly how villainous a standing army of necklace making raccoons are though. They don't even carry rabies. Hahaha. :P
True but if he murdered all his villager friends who would buy his jewelry? Q.Q
Though on a related note I once included an "epic" encounter in a 1st level game that was a little old lady and her angry cats...
Did the wizard survive? Its always fun when the level 1 wizard gets killed by a house cat.
Did the wizard survive? Its always fun when the level 1 wizard gets killed by a house cat.
Well there were no deaths in the party but the players were sweatin' it for a bit. It was a level 1 adventure and the encounter took place inside a fairly cramped room with lots of furniture and a dining table and stuff, so in a lot of places the players had to squeeze to fit (-4 to attacks and AC) and the cats could move pretty freely (being tiny enough to not need to squeeze) and often had cover (which prevents AoOs, which was the case with the cats moving beneath the coffee table).
The old lady wasn't really a sweet and innocent old cat lady. She was a witchy adept who had used Handle Animal to train all her kitties to kill and hunt down her enemies. She posed as the kind lady on the corner of town who took in wanderers and such. And only wanderers because nobody asks many questions when they seem to have left town.
Lots of war-trained kitties buffed by the adepts bless spell all dogpiling a party of 1st level characters. It was epic, and awesome, and the looks on their faces when she said "Fluffikums....KILL!" was priceless. :P
You are the same guy? Wow you and your player really impressed me.
If you ever want another challenge there was this old (and I mean like 04 or something right after the epic level handbook came out) thread on the well, old epic level WOTC board.
An epic level expert that used UMD basically to play with the big boys. High levels are notoriously uncovered in games, and on threads, both for obvious reasons, but if you have ever read the actual play of ones that make it that far it gets to be really interesting.
If the DM can control the wonk factor and the Tippyverse effects. I liked one on Enworld called Tales of Wyre, but it got old when the wizard Mostic the Metagnostic started running amok and doing everything. That was one campaign where it would have been pointless to play anything but a full caster.
Yes, same person. 4e didn't suit my playstyle/preferences so I came over to Pathfinder instead.
Most of the campaigns I've been in/run have wound up around 10th/12th level or below so I don't have much experience of high level. I'll pass on epic, but thanks.
I like commoners for some reason, perhaps because I have a contrary streak.
Wow. First of all thanks for all the replies. I never got so many on a thread so far ^^
To some of the questions asked and things I noticed:
- Totally forgot to include the human bonus feat X.X
- I did not go for craft because buying/selling requires GM fiat. Profession has defined rules about their earnings. That does not mean I dislike craft or anything, I merely wanted a GM independent option (although technically everything depends on the GM anyway ^^)
- Likewise my reason not to include a level up, because how much EXP you get would also require a GM's decision.
- This exercise does not need to reflect the real world. It is more or less playing with rules and numbers.
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I have read some very interesting ideas so far. Sadly I can't reply to all of them, but I read them all and it is appreciated :)
Lastly I'd like to say I like the idea of raccoon-skeletons. Tiny skilled workers aiding one man to make lots of stuff. Give them little pointy hats and name yourself Santa Claus. ^^