Stacking damage for Dragon Style and Dragon Ferocity

[Major Doom]

Dragon Style allows the first unarmed strike to add x1.5 Strength bonus on damage rolls, while Dragon Ferocity allows any unarmed strike. Does Dragon Ferocity stack with Dragon Style for just the first unarmed strike, making it a x2 Strength bonus?

[Captain Yeti]

IMO -
They do not stack, Dragon Ferocity broadens the range of the attacks to include multiple attacks in a round that get the 1.5, along with giving you some other happiness in the from of causing your target to be shaken on a crit or stunning fist.

[The floor is lava]

I think this has been covered in previous posts concerning Dragon Style and Dragon Ferocity, and in those posts, it was noted that the posters believed the damage increases from both sources stacked for the first attack.

[submit2me]

Yes. Your first unarmed strike for the round gets Str x2 (as you said), and every other unarmed strike afterwards only gets Str x1.5.

[Major Doom]

I think I answered my own question. Dragon Style states that only the first unarmed strike receives a x1.5 Strength bonus to damage rolls, while Dragon Ferocity mentions a bonus of half (x0.5) of Strength to damage rolls.

This infers that they do stack, because successful attacks after the first unarmed strike are basically x1.5, but the first one gets a x2 (x1.5 from Dragon Style + x0.5 from Dragon Ferocity).

[Wind Chime]

Trust me letting them stack is much better than declaring all attacks work on a 1.5 strength modifier as this would mean 1.5 power attack.

[Rynjin]

That's what I always figured.

Dragon Style + Dragon Ferocity allows you to add 2x Str to one attack, and then 1.5x to all others in the round.

It also seems to me that ones Dragon Ferocity comes into play, Power Attack gets the 1.5x bonus as well.

[Kazaan]

Ok, I did a close reading and found the following:

Dragon Style increases your normal Str bonus from 1x to 1.5x for the first unarmed attack of the round.

Dragon Ferocity, on the other hand, adds an untyped bonus to all your unarmed strikes, equal to half your Str bonus.

What this means is this: If you had, for the sake of example, an Agile or Guided AoMF (or some other effect that swaps Str bonus on damage rolls for some other stat), then Dragon Style would not give you extra bonus because it increases your normal Strength damage bonus (which you don't have anymore, you traded it for Dex, Wis, etc). Dragon Ferocity, on the other hand, would still add an untyped bonus of half your strength bonus regardless of what stat you're now using in place of regular strength bonus to damage. Now, going back to just using strength as a Dragon style user should be doing, you'd net 2x Str on your first unarmed strike for the round, be that a normal attack or an AoO; 1.5x Str as a base because of dragon style plus an additional 0.5x Str from ferocity. All subsequent unarmed strikes will net 1.5x Str, including AoOs.

[MechE_]

I believe Kazaan is understanding it correctly, but to clarify, here is how I understand it to work (and I'm 99% confident this is correct.)

It is never actually 2x strength bonus on the attack. It is 1.5x from dragon style + an added untyped bonus of 0.5x strength from dragon ferocity.

In many instances, this is the same thing, bot not always. Examples:

18 strength score (strength modifier of +4) - 1.5 * 4 + 0.5 * 4 = 6 + 2 = 8

20 strength score (strength modifier of +5) - 1.5 * 5 + 0.5 * 5 = 7 + 2 = 9

See, dragon ferocity never causes you to do 1.5 times strength modifier (or 2.0 times strength modifier for the first attack) in damage. It adds damage to the final attack, similar to weapon specialization. The amount of damage it adds to the final attack just happens to be equal to 0.5 times your strength modifier.

[TittoPaolo210]

Major Doom wrote:

Dragon Style allows the first unarmed strike to add x1.5 Strength bonus on damage rolls, while Dragon Ferocity allows any unarmed strike. Does Dragon Ferocity stack with Dragon Style for just the first unarmed strike, making it a x2 Strength bonus?

I remember a post from developers, don't remember where, that said that they stack. But also pointed out that it's not x2 Str to the first attack, but 1-1/2 Str + 1/2 Str. It's important because if you have a +5 modifier, half of this modifier gets rounded down to +2, so you get +9 (1-1/2 x 5 = 7 ; 1/2 x 5 = 2 ) total damage, not +10.

Edit: Ninja'd by MechE xD

[Kazaan]

Also, like I said, if you had, say, an Agile AoMF with a +4 Dex mod and a +4 Str mod, you'd only get +4 from the Dex through Agile (since it's no longer a Str bonus to damage) rather than +6 from Dex; but you still get +2 from Str because of Ferocity because that's a separate thing.

[Thor Odenson]

i know this post is old but i have a question and would rather not make a new post just for most likely a quick easy answer.

If i take Dragon style with a STR of 18 does my damage become D+6 or D+4+6?
Is it dice + str and half or Dice + STR + Str & half?

Then dragon ferocity would it be Dice + x1.5 str + .5 str or Dice + str + x1.5 str + .5 str?

[Half Brick In a Sock]

Thor Odenson wrote:

i know this post is old but i have a question and would rather not make a new post just for most likely a quick easy answer.

If i take Dragon style with a STR of 18 does my damage become D+6 or D+4+6?
Is it dice + str and half or Dice + STR + Str & half?

Dice + 1.5xStr, so D+6 for 18 str.

Thor Odenson wrote:

Then dragon ferocity would it be Dice + x1.5 str + .5 str or Dice + str + x1.5 str + .5 str?

Dice + 1.5xStr + 0.5xStr, so D+6+3 for 18 str.

[Thor Odenson]

Half Brick In a Sock wrote:

Thor Odenson wrote:

i know this post is old but i have a question and would rather not make a new post just for most likely a quick easy answer.

If i take Dragon style with a STR of 18 does my damage become D+6 or D+4+6?
Is it dice + str and half or Dice + STR + Str & half?

Dice + 1.5xStr, so D+6 for 18 str.

Thor Odenson wrote:

Then dragon ferocity would it be Dice + x1.5 str + .5 str or Dice + str + x1.5 str + .5 str?

Dice + 1.5xStr + 0.5xStr, so D+6+3 for 18 str.

Thank you. Also how does power attack apply? Would it be +2 or +3?

Power attack "or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls."

Monk unarmed strike "A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons."

Only just the first attack gain the full +3 if any attack does correct? Cause the ferocity only gives an extra .5 str not adding like Dragon style does?