
swingjunkie |
Would there be any alterations needed to make Rise of the Runelords function well as a 5 character AP? I have 1 friend who may want to play, but may need to drop out. If it works with 5 or 4, great, she can leave (read as be killed or possibly replaced) whenever. If I need to make any alterations, what might they be?

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I've been thinking about that myself.
Really, as you divide xp by five instead of four it's a self-correcting problem as everyone is slightly less powerful. Everyone survives a bit more at low levels but it remains challenging at high.
Worst case, if the group is too potent, you can always add a few extra mooks to key fights.

Tangent101 |

I'm switching to the "you level at set points in time" system. It works better for larger groups. I also tend to max out hit points for lower-level monsters and sometimes for more legitimate ones, seeing that a 20-strength raging Barbarian using a +1 bastard sword two-handed can dish out sickening levels of hurt. ;)

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Well, my group are bunch of nutcrackers and they are party of five. It depends really. It's still enough if few fail Will Save or two and it quickly goes downhill for them and they have solid, not optimized completely, but solidly built PC's.
The more that I GM, the more I get to use NPC's wickedly. It also helps tons a lot when you read and prepare tactics of several important NPC's if you know what your players will do. So far, I have never once maxed hp during AP.

Blue_Drake |

I'm currently running it with 5 PCs. We just finished Chapter 1 and there weren't any issues. Mind you my players are mostly novices to Pathfinder and in one case role-playing games in general, but it hasn't been too easy.
I'd say it largely depends on how challenging your players like their game to be. If your players seem bored with the ease of the encounters you could always max the enemies' hit points as suggested or add a couple minor minions to some of the encounters. I doubt the 5th PC will make a huge difference though.

Mudfoot |

Not only do you have to divide the xp between the PCs, but you have to divide the treasure too. So the difference between 4 and 5 PCs is pretty minimal. If you need to, just plug in another mook or two here and there.
But note that there are some places (Thistletop is a classic) that can easily slaughter PCs, so be careful with what you add. The PCs being a tiny bit over strength isn't likely to be much of an issue.

Dathus Tomar |

I'm switching to the "you level at set points in time" system. It works better for larger groups. I also tend to max out hit points for lower-level monsters and sometimes for more legitimate ones, seeing that a 20-strength raging Barbarian using a +1 bastard sword two-handed can dish out sickening levels of hurt. ;)
Replace "Raging Barbarian" with "Power Attacking Fighter with a +1 Greatsword" and you've got my current front-liner. He tears through things(just about to start Foxglove Manor) and I'm waiting for the time when he's brought down by some poor rolls on his part. Historically his player rolls badly.

Story Archer |

Would there be any alterations needed to make Rise of the Runelords function well as a 5 character AP? I have 1 friend who may want to play, but may need to drop out. If it works with 5 or 4, great, she can leave (read as be killed or possibly replaced) whenever. If I need to make any alterations, what might they be?
I'd reccomend throwing in a few extra mooks per encounter - its relatively easy to do on the fly and if it seems you went a little heavy in one battle, go a little lighter in the next. Do that and max out boss hit points and you can still follow the level progression reccommended in the books with no other alterations needed.

Tangent101 |

Actually, Dathus, said Barbarian also has power attack. Currently she's doing something like +17 damage with each blow while Raging and using Power Attack. But my player is so enthralled with it that I don't mind. (Besides, she does roleplay. Took the Trait that makes her a Thassilon scholar... so we have a half-orc scholarly barbarian. It is... most amusing to watch.)
To be honest, her strength did nothing when fighting Mal (the Greater Barghast). Blink negated her ability to contact... meaning she only got one blow in. So there are ways around it. And I can always fudge hit points when needed. ;)

MC Templar |

swingjunkie wrote:Would there be any alterations needed to make Rise of the Runelords function well as a 5 character AP? I have 1 friend who may want to play, but may need to drop out. If it works with 5 or 4, great, she can leave (read as be killed or possibly replaced) whenever. If I need to make any alterations, what might they be?I'd recommend throwing in a few extra mooks per encounter - its relatively easy to do on the fly and if it seems you went a little heavy in one battle, go a little lighter in the next. Do that and max out boss hit points and you can still follow the level progression recommended in the books with no other alterations needed.
I am running with a 5 person group (down from 6 when we started). Presently in Burnt Offerings
I greatly increased the number of goblins in the early fights, at the festival, essentially doubled the mooks, added one extra bard.
I made the Glassworks a much more vibrant encounter series, added multiple extra mook fights, and allowed encounters to occur in echelon (where subsets of enemies are activated in subsequent rounds as they react to the battle in progress)
I didn't need to add anything to Thistletop or the Catacombs. 5PCs have been well challenged by each boos fight that arose (except Tsuto and his blown 'slumber hex save')
What I've seen in the maps, is that a party with more than 4 PCs will struggle with combat maneuvering in tight quarters as much as they will with some enemies. (That tentamort was significantly more dangerous than I expected).
Boss fights and their problems:
Erylium - flight and mobility advantage, combination of DR and fast healing makes her frustrating
Gogmurt - tight squeeze, damaging entangle, narrow passages give druid an insurmountable mobility advantage
Ripnugget - Spirited charge at this level is alot of firepower to repel
Tentamort - my party started feeding it one scout at a time... they might have well dressed them in schoolgirl outfits first
Yeth Hounds - we had a 'Benny Hill' moment where players were making 'yakety sax' sound effects as half the party was panicked and sent running randomly through the dungeon. If the group hadn't killed the Tentamort first... it would have been a rough day for their archers.
I wouldn't start enhancing the bosses unless you see a pattern of easy fights. My group certainly hasn't.

Matthew Bellizzi |

I have 6 players well more like 5.5 as some one seems always to be missing a game here or there. My players are 20 point buy and are quite good at optimizing and working together. Instead of just putting more mooks I've had to take a different approach. All enemies get max HP and the advanced template and generally a 1 or 2 BAB bonus. The problem with just throwing more mooks in is fireball becomes the answer to everything. Also if you have it Hero labs and the Open D20 Rise of the Runelords portfolios helps with this immensely. At this point I cannot imagine DMing without a laptop running Hero Labs any more.

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I find that disregarding the written tactics of the AP and substituting tactics tailored to counter your party helps a lot. I have a 6 person party and I know that at the end of the second module they sent the rogue up to scout the top of the clock-tower where the big boss of the module was hiding out invisibly. Instead of using the written tactics I had the enemy bull rush the rogue off the side of the tower, and after he made a reflex save to grab onto the side of the tower I had the Boss use Deep Slumber on the rogue sending him plummeting to his death. The default tactics never really take advantage of the terrain and your own party's weaknesses and mistakes like that.
Another thing that helps is having the prep spells already cast for caster enemies, and having dynamic enemy reactions to hearing fights in other parts of the dungeons. Also, stationing some Ogres in the open courtyard of Fort Rannick, rather than just near the gates and in the buildings.

Bugromkiller |
I am playing in a 5 PC game and we just finished book 3. One of the main factor that reduce the power of a bigger than average group is that in the first 2 books the dungeons are all pretty cramped so you can't really get everyone in position. Also I found that this adventure really like the confused condition so more players is not always better in those spots.
Our group is pretty strong so the DM started to add mook to boss encounter where the boss was alone and the fights got meaningful. There is like only one fight in book 1 that is a solo character that isn't challenging by himself but I wouldn't change anything really in that adventure.