"Schrodinger's Wizard"


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Liberty's Edge

Because in the narrative of the physics world Vampires don't cast shadows. This narrative applies across the board, and Vampire have additional supernatural weaknesses (sun, stakes, crossing water, etc...)

There is an entire narrative overlapping the general physics of the world applied to Vampires. It wasn't simply "This is a vampire, he doesn't have a shadow." it was novel after novel becoming integrated into something that interweaves the fabric enough to suspend disbelief.

Why don't we see Vampires? Sun burns them, so they don't come out during the day. That is also why they don't rule the world. Oh...so we have added limitations and caveats to the narrative to allow more believably.

Why? Because just saying "They don't have shadows just because" is crappy storytelling.

Just as "Because it's magic" is crappy storytelling.


ciretose wrote:

Because in the narrative of the physics world Vampires don't cast shadows. This narrative applies across the board, and Vampire have additional supernatural weaknesses (sun, stakes, crossing water, etc...)

You just used because its magic!!!! Saying they have a supernatural power so it works is the same thing as saying 'because magic'

Your BS about physics only showed me that you didn't fully figure out your explanation. If something cannot cast a shadow then how can we see it? You are saying that to vampires light both passes through them and bounces off of them generating light energy. YEP THAT'S GREAT STORY TELLING!

As soon as the GM drops words like physics, DNA and quatums when explaining the magic system, people lose their 'suspension of disbelief' and replace it with 'disbelief' aka bad story telling.

Liberty's Edge

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Dr Grecko wrote:
ciretose wrote:
DM fiat is the only way it is viable...
I would argue that DM fiat is the only way it's not viable.

So a large object suddenly appearing on top of you head, an object large enough and sturdy enough to be considered a "Solid Barrier" would not in any way do you harm, despite it immediately needing to reform from a "clothlike" form into, again, a structure that meet the threshold to be considered a "Solid Barrier" which prevents the effects of the spell that caused it to change shape in the first place.

That not posing significant risk doesn't require GM Fiat. Allowing the character to walk in some strange alignment, at all times, that would cause this not to do grievous harm to, you know, your head. That doesn't require GM Fiat.

Right.

And if the BBEG at the end of the quest did this to you, you wouldn't call GM Fiat on that either, right?


ciretose wrote:
And if the BBEG at the end of the quest did this to you, you wouldn't call GM Fiat on that either, right?

Nope. If one 6th level spell is enough to destroy the BBEG, I would be very disappointed.

Liberty's Edge

Marthkus wrote:
ciretose wrote:

Because in the narrative of the physics world Vampires don't cast shadows. This narrative applies across the board, and Vampire have additional supernatural weaknesses (sun, stakes, crossing water, etc...)

You just used because its magic!!!! Saying they have a supernatural power so it works is the same thing as saying 'because magic'

Your BS about physics only showed me that you didn't fully figure out your explanation. If something cannot cast a shadow then how can we see it? You are saying that to vampires light both passes through them and bounces off of them generating light energy. YEP THAT'S GREAT STORY TELLING!

As soon as the GM drops words like physics, DNA and quatums when explaining the magic system, people lose their 'suspension of disbelief' and replace it with 'disbelief' aka bad story telling.

I am impressed with how hard you work at ignoring parts you don't agree with.

As part of a larger narrative that explains how the supernatural powers are not in fact magical, but rather a part of the physics of how the world operates, sure.

In this world, A) Vampires exist, B) They follow certain rules that are exceptions to the rules everyone else follows C) But aside from those exceptions they are in all ways subject to the rules of the world and D) (this is the important one) here is a complex and detailed narrative that explains how all of this could possible happen given the setting we are discussing and the reasoning behind all of the exceptions.

Would you disagree that the default of the unexplained in game is realistic physics, and the exception is magic?

You are arguing that anything that you are either unable or simply to lazy to bother trying to explain can be answered with "It's magic!"

Which means you have failed.

If that ain't the dreaded "GM Fiat" I don't know what it


ciretose wrote:
Marthkus wrote:
ciretose wrote:

Because in the narrative of the physics world Vampires don't cast shadows. This narrative applies across the board, and Vampire have additional supernatural weaknesses (sun, stakes, crossing water, etc...)

You just used because its magic!!!! Saying they have a supernatural power so it works is the same thing as saying 'because magic'

Your BS about physics only showed me that you didn't fully figure out your explanation. If something cannot cast a shadow then how can we see it? You are saying that to vampires light both passes through them and bounces off of them generating light energy. YEP THAT'S GREAT STORY TELLING!

As soon as the GM drops words like physics, DNA and quatums when explaining the magic system, people lose their 'suspension of disbelief' and replace it with 'disbelief' aka bad story telling.

I am impressed with how hard you work at ignoring parts you don't agree with.

As part of a larger narrative that explains how the supernatural powers are not in fact magical, but rather a part of the physics of how the world operates, sure.

In this world, A) Vampires exist, B) They follow certain rules that are exceptions to the rules everyone else follows C) But aside from those exceptions they are in all ways subject to the rules of the world and D) (this is the important one) here is a complex and detailed narrative that explains how all of this could possible happen given the setting we are discussing and the reasoning behind all of the exceptions.

Would you disagree that the default of the unexplained in game is realistic physics, and the exception is magic?

You are arguing that anything that you are either unable or simply to lazy to bother trying to explain can be answered with "It's magic!"

Which means you have failed.

If that ain't the dreaded "GM Fiat" I don't know what it

I'm amazed how you fail to see that everything you just said was 'because it's magic'

You don't have D) Your pretending its there and telling me to pretend that it exist.

Saying that 'and the exception is magic' IS saying 'because its magic it works and doesn't follow realistic physics'

I'm baffled that you seem to think these 'explanations' are different from 'it works because it's magic'

Assistant Software Developer

I think this thread has gone well past being a productive discussion.

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