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Spawning new thread from this one.
The problem is, Drogon, there have been multiple calls for GM rewards at star tiers, and it has generally been said that it's not happening in the near future. Would that it were happening. I think it's even better to do that than repeat chronicles, since most primary GMs don't play that often. I'd love it if we were to get some extra downloadable goodies, maybe PDF face cards of the NPCs in scenarios (As it stands, I have to print my own to augment the two decks I use), or even a few limited time offers of discounted scenarios. (This week, 3 star GMs and above get 25% off on Season 3!) Unfortunately, that doesn't happen.I believe one of the main reasons for that is that they havent come up with anything they feel is suitable to give out as a GM perk per star, etc. It has been talked about at least a few times, but no one has been able to give Mike any suggestions that he liked enough to put into play.
If someone wanted to try that, I'd suggest starting a different thread about it, opposed to posting it in this one, but like I said, I think this has been tried a couple times already.
So let's operate on the assumption that giving out rewards at, or based on, star count is a good idea, and generate ideas that campaign leadership might like.
Already on the table:
- PDF face cards of the NPCs in scenarios (Netopalis)
- a few limited time offers of discounted scenarios (Netopalis)
- race boons (JohnF)
Other ideas? I like race boons the most, but I don't think it's likely to get approved. Discounts would be nice--I don't mind paying $4 per scenario, but sometimes when I'm running without playing because nobody else wants to, it's a little bit of salt in the wound. I'm lukewarm to PDF face cards; I think those should be included with scenarios anyway because that would be awesome.
On the topic of race boons, what if five races were set aside to not be used as convention boons at all? They could only be achieved through GMing. First star gets you a Gillman boon, second star gets you ... what, Android? Then scale it up. Make five star something people really want, like Kobold or Hobgoblin. (Or Orc! Mmm, Scarred Witch Doctor.)
Or it doesn't have to be race boons--it could also be class boons. Trust five-star GMs to play Master Summoners without causing the game to break down. Give two-star GMs a chance to play a Thassilonian specialist. That sort of thing.
Come to think of it, it doesn't have to be one-shot boons, either. Maybe hitting a star tier just opens that option for you. If people want a piece of the action, they can start GMing their pants off until they hit the tier they want.
Thoughts?
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I approve of something like stated above so long as they don't break game balance.
But I also approve of some other things..
Such as organizing a Kinkos/Staples Account for those who do a lot of copies/printing, so they can get a discount. For my business, I get a 20% discount on printing and copy services from Kinkos. So I from time to time, use that discount to print my scenarios or for maps and other related PFS items.. Any little help on the prep cost does WONDERS.
I'm also a sucker for general items. Master Brock in the past, had items like coffee mugs and tumblers for his area.. Yeah so they aren't game supplies, but they at least show that we have earned our keep.
I also approve of items like what I did for my area: Dice bags of PFS Awesome... Or PFS only Dice. I love dice. I just spent a fortune on Artisan Dice/Q Workshop. So I'm not against that.
Rewards don't always have to be boons. Although I am not against boons..
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First of all , i´m all in favour of giving some kind of rewards to GM´s, and using the stars as a "sistem" , seems the most fair and easy to implement method.
Second , i´d prefer them to something different from boons , but usable in gaming. As a VC , i´ve given ( from my own budget/pocket) dices, condition cards and initiative cards ( yeah , from another company , but very useful ;-)) , but anything more to help in this , would be awesome ( and cheaper).
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I think this is a great idea. GMs as a whole are hard to come by sometimes and rewarding those who take the time and effort to do it might attract more to become GMs.
The Dice Bag of PFS awesome is a nifty idea, and a set of PFS dice would be very cool as well. We all love dice and dice bags and could always use more.
While the idea of Races is nifty I like that being reserved for Cons.
And while allowing GMs to play banned races I think that may cause an uproar in the player base.
One idea is to possibly give GMs a dollar amount at the paizo store. Like $10 for their first star and $20 for their 2nd star so forth and so on.
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At 4 stars, you send Paizo a head shot and your face becomes the next villain in a PFS scenario.
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I don't know how I feel about the idea of asking for Paizo gift certificates--that seems a little tacky. Plus, $20 for 30 games? That's just insulting. But a shot glass with a logo on it, that I would GM 30 games for. Even if it's only worth $5.
Maybe I'm weird. But I'd rather see something directly related to what we're doing, be it in-game boons or campaign-related goofiness, than just "here's a few bucks."
On the other hand I do like the discount idea on scenarios. I don't know if that's any different. Hmm.
Also, Lady Ophelia, that dice bag is badass.
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Why not T-shirts? I've often wished there were t-shirts for us!
There are, I think, but you have to GM at cons to get them.
GM-tier-exclusive t-shirts aren't a bad idea. You could have a different design for each tier--I'm picturing the Paizo goblin, looking as though he's just fallen over, with five stars circling his head, and it is FREAKIN' ADORABLE--but it seems logistically like Paizo would have to spend a lot of money on that, since they'd need to order a huge range of sizes, many of which would just sit around. Or they could do print-on-demand, but that would just raise the price.
Plus, then, should they be free? Now we're asking them to spend a lot of money. Should they be for sale? ... actually that could work, but I suspect they wouldn't turn a huge profit.
Come to think of it, the trouble with almost any tchotchke is going to be that Paizo has to spend money. I don't know if that's an argument that's going to win. The advantage to the race boon is they have to create and format them, yes, but then they've got one document with digital distribution that is good to go. Watermark it, add it to the Downloads of anyone eligible and boom.
Hmmm.
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Correct me if I am wrong but as far as I know, the only GM reward for stars is access to run the Season's Exclusive Scenario upto a year before it is released if you have 4 or 5 stars.
It would be cool if there were more Exclusives available based upon your start level. I could see maybe 4 scenarios a year. One for 1 Star GMs (likely a Tier 1-5), one for 2 Star GMs, one for 3 Star GMs and one for 4 and 5 Star GMs. The more stars that you have, the more Exclusive Senarios you have access to run each Season. I know that this would require development resources to make happen so there is a cost involved but I would hope that would be off set by the GMs purchasing the scenarios.
I think that any reward would have to have minimal cost to Paizo. I like the idea of GM chronicles with boons but it would need to be something fair and not overpowering. As most GMs do not get to play as much as most of the player base, maybe they should be things like a free faction change or a character respec after 1st level rather than something like a race boon.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Man...I make a bet with Patrick and he goes and starts doing all the work for me to make him lose. I need to invite you over for poker, sir. (-:
Correct me if I am wrong but as far as I know, the only GM reward for stars is access to run the Season's Exclusive Scenario upto a year before it is released if you have 4 or 5 stars.
Yep. 100 games and you get to GM the "cool kid" scenario.
Which is fun, admittedly, and a nice little something to look forward to. But I think if people had something to look forward to for their 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th stars, then there would be a lot more incentive to GM more often.
Magic gives out promotional cards to their GMs (a packet every year based on what level judge you are, and another packet at Christmas). WotC also used to send stuff to their DMs for LFR/Encounters (D&D Tile sets, initiative trackers, special modules - the Tomb of Horrors reprint was AWESOME).
There are myriad options, and I don't even think Paizo needs to get as pricey as what I listed above. As others have mentioned, even if you give me the option to PURCHASE something like a cool 1-shot module or scenario written by, say, Jason Buhlman, I'd be pretty happy. Then they could even make some of their money back.
As for those who say they are happy with what they have, that's fine; so am I. But wouldn't you smile just a little bit if Paizo sent you something fun in the mail one day? Wouldn't you feel just a bit more appreciated, and thus more pleased about the effort you expended on behalf of PFS? WotC didn't need to give me all that stuff, either. But man was I excited when I got it in the mail. And when I told other players about it, they all wanted to know how they could get in on the "gravy train." Which was an easy answer: start judging/DMing.
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This is a good theory in general, but for it to actually work it needs to be cheap enough and easy enough for Paizo to justify funding/doing. Some thoughts:
1 Star: This is really easy to get and can be done in a relatively short time frame. Having a reward for this level is really just silliness. Bragging rights for your first star should be enough.
2 Stars: Ok, this takes a little effort and perhaps organizing some game days. It requires some commitment over time, but also can be achieved in less than a year fairly easily. The reward for this needs to be small. A Boon is a good idea, but it would be really hard to regulate because it would need to be transferred digitally. I like the idea of having something open up for purchase to GMs of this level and higher.
3 Stars: Now you are getting into some real commitment to the Society. I think one Paizo d20 would be a great idea for GMs who reach this level.
4 Stars: Ok, now we are getting serious. They already get access to that special scenario. I'm not sure what else to do at this level. But a little something else would be nice.
5 Stars: The big leagues. The idea of having your face be immortalized in villain form is awesome. I would love to see that, and it would be one more reason for striving for the top.
More Pink than Purple Thea, but might work...
http://s99.photobucket.com/user/missjms23/media/CatBunny.jpg.html
Truly, a TPK in the making.
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Okay, that's just disturbing. But back on track ...
So if we don't want Paizo to spend a lot of money, and we don't want to screw up game balance, I re-recommend the idea of having each star tier open up some option that is otherwise locked out--a race, a class, both--going up from "not that weird" to "wow I can't believe what the 5 stars get, I need to start GMing and rerunning and how do I get to run specials?!"
If not, how about the possibility of vanity boons? "Congratulations on achieving your second star. Here are two boon sheets. You are allowed to apply each one to any character you have. Each one allows you to purchase one vanity from the Pathfinder Society Field Guide, up to 5 PP. If your chosen vanity costs less than 5PP, you do NOT add the difference to your total." Then you give out more boons at higher levels, each of which lets you get bigger vanities.
And yeah, that can get them fancy Wayfinders, but I don't think that's likely to be a huge deal. But if it is, you can easily write in "No wayfinders!"
And yeah, that can get them Day Job stuff, but since GMs don't roll Day Jobs when they GM, I think that will even out in the long run.
Comments?
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I wouldn't mind seeing a permanent coupon code for each star level that is unlocked. Say, something like this:
1 star = 10% off scenarios
2 stars = 15% off scenarios
3 stars = 15% off scenarios and unlocks access to "limited" items, like branded tumblers, shotglasses, hats, etc all for purchase in the Store
4 stars = as 3 stars, continue to get the yearly special; also, eligible to review PFS Quests as submitted by hopeful authors (perhaps work it like RPG Superstar! runs every year)
5 stars = the beating heart of a distant star.
well, maybe the last one is my affinity for aberrant creatures coming out. Who knows. ;)
would soooooo have to be purplier ... and more gnomish ... and moreMore Pink than Purple Thea, but might work...
http://s99.photobucket.com/user/missjms23/media/CatBunny.jpg.html
Is Purplier even a word?
At five stars, you get to invent a word.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32
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You can get the con boons through routes other than GMming. Honestly, boons for committed GMs are kinda pointless in a way, as committed GMs don't play as often as their players. What do committed GMs do? They GM. Credit and boons are acceptable means of recognition, but really aren't the best.
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Sheesh, we'll help get you that 4th star...so that you have the privelige of running us through even more content! :)
I suppose there's the problem, its 'easy' on paper to get one star, or maybe two, but what percentage of the PFS player base has one or two stars, and if they do have two, how many just keep right on GM'ing onwards? I'd wager that if you spent enough time to go get two, you are probably a committed GM.
Even the one star wont happen by 'accident'.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32
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Sheesh, we'll help get you that 4th star...so that you have the privelige of running us through even more content! :)
I suppose there's the problem, its 'easy' on paper to get one star, or maybe two, but what percentage of the PFS player base has one or two stars, and if they do have two, how many just keep right on GM'ing onwards? I'd wager that if you spent enough time to go get two, you are probably a committed GM.
Even the one star wont happen by 'accident'.
I would largely agree with this. As best as I can tell, my local lodge has one three star GM, one two star GM (me), and about 5 one-star GMs. Stars aren't as common as they appear to be on the boards.
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I'd just go waaay out there and point out that the boards would tend to only represent a minority of players. Thinking of my closest and regular half dozen players, theres TWO of us even read the boards really, the other four MIGHT be inclined to browse, when we link them something.
In a sort of Criss Angel Mindfreak whodathunkit way, the two of us who come here just so happen to be the people that usually have the GM job.
/mind-blown :) The rest, who typically play, have no real reason to frequent the boards (other than to transact) and don't go swimming in threads.
I'd say thats why stars are more common here on the boards than in the wider gaming community.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I would largely agree with this. As best as I can tell, my local lodge has one three star GM, one two star GM (me), and about 5 one-star GMs. Stars aren't as common as they appear to be on the boards.Sheesh, we'll help get you that 4th star...so that you have the privelige of running us through even more content! :)
I suppose there's the problem, its 'easy' on paper to get one star, or maybe two, but what percentage of the PFS player base has one or two stars, and if they do have two, how many just keep right on GM'ing onwards? I'd wager that if you spent enough time to go get two, you are probably a committed GM.
Even the one star wont happen by 'accident'.
No, they really aren't.
Locally, we have around 300 players who have participated (at least once) in PFS. Probably half those participate regularly enough for me to recognize.
We have one 5-star GM (JP Chapleau) and two 4-star GMs (me and Dave the Barbarian). I can name three 3-star GMs (Kerney, Everett Morrow - a VL - and Todd Lower). There are likely a few others, but I do not know for sure because I never see them on the boards. There are scads of 2-star and 1-star GMs, and double that who don't have any stars, at all, but do GM occasionally.
To sum up, we're a pretty good area with a very deep GM pool. I see two of us on the boards regularly (though a third has begun nosing his way in, lately), and three more occasionally. The others? Pretty much never.
And I think that sums up PFS players pretty well, by the way. The VAST majority don't touch the boards, much less know where they are.
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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There's competition for stars (very) locally here - my wife will be getting her 2nd star at KublaCon, a week or two before I get mine.
Of course I claim that's only because she runs "We Be Goblins!" a lot, and gets two tables of credit each time; I've actually run more PFS tables than she has, but have less table credit :-)
She'll almost certainly get to her third star before I do, too; while I ran my first table a little over a year ago, she ran her first one a few months later (and only really started running in August). But we seem to be sitting behind the screen a lot more nowadays (not least because our regular FLGS has grown from one or two tables every two weeks to three tables practically every week, and will probably field four tables in the not too distant future).
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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There's competition for stars (very) locally here - my wife will be getting her 2nd star at KublaCon, a week or two before I get mine.
Of course I claim that's only because she runs "We Be Goblins!" a lot, and gets two tables of credit each time; I've actually run more PFS tables than she has, but have less table credit :-)
She'll almost certainly get to her third star before I do, too; while I ran my first table a little over a year ago, she ran her first one a few months later (and only really started running in August). But we seem to be sitting behind the screen a lot more nowadays (not least because our regular FLGS has grown from one or two tables every two weeks to three tables practically every week, and will probably field four tables in the not too distant future).
I will definitely do my best to get to three before him as I can't resist running 'We Be Goblins' at every opportunity, cause its so much fun and as HE says, it brings out my inner crazy.
The last goblin group totally got into it and only just made it out before everything blew up!!!!! Kublacon here I come, there are at least four Goblins waiting for me there!!! After that its free RPG day and 'We Be Goblins Too'. Way too much fun.
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You can get the con boons through routes other than GMming. Honestly, boons for committed GMs are kinda pointless in a way, as committed GMs don't play as often as their players. What do committed GMs do? They GM. Credit and boons are acceptable means of recognition, but really aren't the best.
Yes, but if we incentive GM stars, maybe there will be more people taking turns, and more opportunities for GMs to play.
Personally I prefer to play. I GM because it is my opinion that anyone who wants to play should also GM, because otherwise nobody would get to play. More people wanting to GM becomes more time I can spend playing, so everyone is happy.
(Not that I dislike GMing, mind you. One doesn't get to 30+ scenarios by hating it. But playing is my preferred activity.)
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I wouldn't mind seeing a permanent coupon code for each star level that is unlocked. Say, something like this:
1 star = 10% off scenarios
2 stars = 15% off scenarios
3 stars = 15% off scenarios and unlocks access to "limited" items, like branded tumblers, shotglasses, hats, etc all for purchase in the Store
4 stars = as 3 stars, continue to get the yearly special; also, eligible to review PFS Quests as submitted by hopeful authors (perhaps work it like RPG Superstar! runs every year)
5 stars = the beating heart of a distant star.
While a discount on scenarios is a good idea. I think that most GMs who look to get over two stars will attend a few cons and get most of the available scenarios for free for GMing those cons.
While I also like the shotglass, hats and such idea, as it has been stated it looks good on paper but Paizo would have to jack up the costs of these "GM special" items so they don't lose money on it.
Offering special boons is a good and albeit probably the cheapest route to go. I think I have to agree with Netopalis and that more of the dedicated GMs don't see that much play, not that they don't enjoy playing, but they enjoy GMing just as much and dedicate their time in doing so because the player/GM ratio is so skewed.
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Stars aren't as common as they appear to be on the boards.
Indeed. In Britain (an island of 60 million people), I'm aware of:
1 5-star GM - Thod
3 4-star GMs - Dave & Rob (our 2 VOs) plus Crispy
3 3-star GMs
4 2-star GMs
(I'm not going to try and guess the number of 1-star GMs...)
There are almost certainly a few more I'm not aware of, especially at the 2-3 star level, as I've not crossed paths with them in person or on the boards. There are also plenty of VOs and multi-star GMs that come to UK conventions from Ireland and mainland Europe.
I'd love to see some reward for those on 2-3 stars; 4 stars is a far off target which I'm unlikely to reach until into 2015 at the earliest. I certainly have no intention of stopping GMing, but it'd be nice to get some sort of recognition along the way.
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Vests with badges, pins, etc. Different shaped badges for things like particular adventures or accomplishments ("I ran 8 slots at PaizoCon!"). Badges to cover game knowledge to encourage learning about different aspects of the game such as topics that are tough to get a handle around. Maybe this sounds too much like scouting for geeks, I dunno. :)
Vendor source for make-on-demand including custom user artwork capability: CafePress
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32
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Here's an idea...how about all GMs 3 stars and above get a free PDF of the season's Companion at the start of each season? The Campaign Settings are useful for experienced GMs who wish to add a bit of flavor to a scenario, but inexperienced GMs won't get as much use out of them.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32
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Grolick: I don't care as much for that idea as it makes it harder for players in remote areas to gaiin access to those scenarios. 4-star GMs are rare, and not everybody has access to one. I've only ever played under one 4-star GM. Yes, VCs and VOs can run the scenarios. but it's rather taxing on them to have to keep running the same scenario repeatedly, especially if a particular EX isn't a scenario that fits their style.