Prince Nuada is badass.
From my perspective, there are two visions of what "Finesse" fighting means. Some say that it's quick jabs with thin weapons that quantifies "finesse", but there is the other side that considers the creation of momentum through agility as opposed to raw strength. Perhaps it's both. I encourage to watch THIS
In that clip, the scar-face albino dude fights with Strength. A lot of strength. He directly blocks (he does not deflect, he flat out blocks) full power swings from those big bird-head guys. Just because he spins a little some times does not mean he's not using a power style, or that powerful people can't spin.
Weapon finesse doesn't look like anything, because Dexterity is hand-eye coordination and fine manipulation. Weapon Finesse isn't a simulation thing, it's a purely mechanical thing to reduce MAD. Everyone in the real world fights with Strength.
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In that clip, the scar-face albino dude fights with Strength. A lot of strength. He directly blocks (he does not deflect, he flat out blocks) full power swings from those big bird-head guys. Just because he spins a little some times does not mean he's not using a power style, or that powerful people can't spin.
OK bro so 4 things:
First of all, he's not just some "scar-face albino dude", he's the effing elven prince Nuada so show some respect.
Second of all,
Two-Weapon Defense (Combat)
You are skilled at defending yourself while dual-wielding.
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Two-Weapon Fighting.
Benefit: When wielding a double weapon or two weapons (not including natural weapons or unarmed strikes), you gain a +1 shield bonus to your AC.
*The Pathfinder mechanic for sword defense is Dex based, not Str based.
Third of all, if you read what I said earlier, I said "momentum through agility"
Fourth of all yes, powerful people can spin... if they're not wearing heavy armor and don't have a tower shield and can manage to place some ranks into acrobatics... yes sir, you are correct.
Third of all, if you read what I said earlier, I said "momentum through agility"
Dexterity ≠ Agility
Agility is proportional Strength. Dexterity is more about hand/eye coordination and aim. In the original D&D, Strength and Dexterity might as well have been called "Melee fighting" and "Ranged fighting."
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Dexterity ≠ Agility
Agility is proportional Strength. Dexterity is more about hand/eye coordination and aim. In the original D&D, Strength and Dexterity might as well have been called "Melee fighting" and "Ranged fighting."
I beg to differ, and so does this text:
Weapon Finesse (Combat)
You are trained in using your agility in melee combat, as opposed to brute strength.
Both? You said it is perfectly balanced, so I am wondering where that balance is. There would appear to me to be no benefit to Strength at all. If you had at least left off the 1.5x Dex thing, then you could argue that Strength is for 2-handers and Dex is for the rest, but if you include the higher multiplier, I just can't figure out why anyone would care about Strength.What would be the benefit of investing in Strength beyond 13 (to qualify for Power Attack) then? Why would everyone not pump dex and use an Elven Curve Blade?Are you arguing that this shouldn't exist or looking for clarification in order to aid in the building process?
I agree with this statement. Might I suggest make it a Google Document on their Google Drive to allow for updates after posting.
-Hexen
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Both? You said it is perfectly balanced, so I am wondering where that balance is. There would appear to me to be no benefit to Strength at all. If you had at least left off the 1.5x Dex thing, then you could argue that Strength is for 2-handers and Dex is for the rest, but if you include the higher multiplier, I just can't figure out why anyone would care about Strength.What would be the benefit of investing in Strength beyond 13 (to qualify for Power Attack) then? Why would everyone not pump dex and use an Elven Curve Blade?Are you arguing that this shouldn't exist or looking for clarification in order to aid in the building process?I agree with this statement. Might I suggest make it a Google Document on their Google Drive to allow for updates after posting.
-Hexen
Thanks Ineptus. Sucks I can't edit the original, but that's a great idea and I'll have to think of an accessible way to do it.
Based on that video, the twisting of his wrist is what provides his sword with the momentum he needs to properly slash through the bad guys.
I like this thread, though I'm not gonna use a damagedex feat on my magus. He doesn't really need it. o.o
just some food for thought here i do recreative armored combat and i know a 18 year old girl that weighs about 120 lbs and she can hit as hard as one of us 200 lbs+ guys because she is fast physics says Force = mass x velocity squared so dex is just as viable for determining how hard you hit as str
Why would you think that speed is Dexterity? The speed with which you can swing a weapon is based on how strong you are.
just some food for thought here i do recreative armored combat and i know a 18 year old girl that weighs about 120 lbs and she can hit as hard as one of us 200 lbs+ guys because she is fast physics says Force = mass x velocity squared so dex is just as viable for determining how hard you hit as strWhy would you think that speed is Dexterity? The speed with which you can swing a weapon is based on how strong you are.
Dextrous characters know how to swing a weapon to gain maximum velocity with minimal effort, but you can't combine that with the brute force needed to just smash a sword into the guy.
Remove both the .5 dex and 1.5dex options. This will make it sexier to two-weapon fighters and not sexy to two-handed fighters.
Don't allow the use of power attack with this feat either.
Also it should probably only work with weapons that you use weapon finesse for
*My 2 copper
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Remove both the .5 dex and 1.5dex options. This will make it sexier to two-weapon fighters and not sexy to two-handed fighters.
Don't allow the use of power attack with this feat either.
Also it should probably only work with weapons that you use weapon finesse for
*My 2 copper
Wait, what? You mean leave the off hand at .5 or have it always at 1? also, don't allow 2h finesse weapons at 1.5?
I disagree, I think it should work just like STR does, since I am wasting 2 feats on this character, it shouldn't be worthless.
Personally I think I would swap a couple of things around for it.
My version of this feat looked like this:
Weapon Precision
Prerequisites- DEX 15, Weapon Finesse, BAB +1
When making an attack with a light or finessable weapon, you may apply your DEX modifier instead of your STR modifier on melee damage rolls. A weapon in 2 hands will deal 1.5 times your DEX modifer, and a weapon in an off hand or secondary natural weapon will deal .5 times you DEX modifier. Additionally, if you have the Piranha Strike feat, you can now use it with any weapon with which you can use this feat.
Normal: You apply your STR modifier to melee damage rolls.
I don't know about it being perfectly balanced, but it seems like a lot of people on these boards want a lot more restrictions on it, regardless of the fact that taking the feats themselves are a restriction.
Wait, what? You mean leave the off hand at .5 or have it always at 1? also, don't allow 2h finesse weapons at 1.5?Remove both the .5 dex and 1.5dex options. This will make it sexier to two-weapon fighters and not sexy to two-handed fighters.
Don't allow the use of power attack with this feat either.
Also it should probably only work with weapons that you use weapon finesse for
*My 2 copper
Always at 1. Give TWF some love.
I disagree, I think it should work just like STR does, since I am wasting 2 feats on this character, it shouldn't be worthless.
Personally I think I would swap a couple of things around for it.
My version of this feat looked like this:
** spoiler omitted **
I don't know about it being perfectly balanced, but it seems like a lot of people on these boards want a lot more restrictions on it, regardless of the fact that taking the feats themselves are a restriction.
Dex is a better stat than Dex. If a couple of feats can turn Dex fighter into equal DPR strength Fighters then why would anyone ever pump strength. 2 feats are well worth the 10+ dex mod you can get to AC. A fighter with armor training could make use of celestial plate armor.
EDIT: Also dex adds to saves. Strength does not.
you need a certain amount of str but speed comes from agility and agility is dex
Well "in reality" not so much.
In reality when you want to hit harder you also pretty much automatically hit faster. Force is mass by velocity, energy is mass by velocity squared, and mass is generally constant. If you aren't hitting someone faster you aren't hitting them harder. And since muscles are what do the hitting... strength is speed.
Or thereabouts.
Dexterity really "shouldn't" be about being faster but about being more precise or maybe more efficient. You have less force but it goes where you need less or less is 'wasted' and such.
Now before the gods must smite more female catfolk how much of that should apply to abstract RPG mechanics is an open question.
Anyways...
For my verisimilitude I think that Dex damage shouldn't apply whenever a Rogue precision damage doesn't, it shouldn't add 1.5 when two handed, but say full off-hand is fine. Which I think keeps a good mechanical trade off too. And Power Attack working is fine, just adding a little power back in. Besides anyone using this would grab Piranha Strike if they knew of it.
I disagree, I think it should work just like STR does, since I am wasting 2 feats on this character, it shouldn't be worthless.
Personally I think I would swap a couple of things around for it.
My version of this feat looked like this:
** spoiler omitted **
I don't know about it being perfectly balanced, but it seems like a lot of people on these boards want a lot more restrictions on it, regardless of the fact that taking the feats themselves are a restriction.
Dex is a better stat than Dex. If a couple of feats can turn Dex fighter into equal DPR strength Fighters then why would anyone ever pump strength. 2 feats are well worth the 10+ dex mod you can get to AC. A fighter with armor training could make use of celestial plate armor.
EDIT: Also dex adds to saves. Strength does not.
Your posts are wildly inconsistent, why make TWF so much better, but not let fighters do it universally? A lot of people are complaining about how under powered they are...
Your posts are wildly inconsistent, why make TWF so much better, but not let fighters do it universally? A lot of people are complaining about how under powered they are...I disagree, I think it should work just like STR does, since I am wasting 2 feats on this character, it shouldn't be worthless.
Personally I think I would swap a couple of things around for it.
My version of this feat looked like this:
** spoiler omitted **
I don't know about it being perfectly balanced, but it seems like a lot of people on these boards want a lot more restrictions on it, regardless of the fact that taking the feats themselves are a restriction.
Dex is a better stat than Dex. If a couple of feats can turn Dex fighter into equal DPR strength Fighters then why would anyone ever pump strength. 2 feats are well worth the 10+ dex mod you can get to AC. A fighter with armor training could make use of celestial plate armor.
EDIT: Also dex adds to saves. Strength does not.
There's no reason to make strength a useless stat and TWF kind'of suxs. allow them to invest is full-dex damage is somthing that helps the rogue more than anyone and TWF fighters. Now two-handed fighters shouldn't be dumping dex for strength to get equal damage, more ac, and a better reflex save.
Consider damage done with this feat Precision damage. It fits thematicly, useing quick strikes to target areas for maximum damage, and then creatures immune to precision damage are unaffected.
Could be a balancing factor.
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Consider damage done with this feat Precision damage. It fits thematicly, useing quick strikes to target areas for maximum damage, and then creatures immune to precision damage are unaffected.
Could be a balancing factor.
my second version of the feat takes this into consideration partially, since to me, "quick strikes to vital places" is only 1/2 of the equasion. Def a balancing factor.
As for fighters... Fighters dump dex all the time. By the time they can even use it effectively to enhance their AC, they can afford a belt to pump their dex up to 12 to match a full-plate, or 16 later on for mithral full-plate.
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So, I have another way to look at it.
I built a basic level 10 TWF fighter with a pair of +1 agile Kukris. Against AC 24, he gets about 50 damage per round.
I gave him a feat that gives dex to damage and swapped the +1 agile weapons for +2 weapons. That gave him a 15% increase in damage dealt.
For reference, weapon focus nets you are 5% increase in damage on average.
A straight dex to damage feat is 3 times better then weapon focus in a TWF build, and about 50% better than weapon focus in a two hand build.
So what you're saying is... we fixed fighters?
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So what you're saying is... we fixed fighters?
No, but you can expect about the same increase from this feat on any class.
A straight up no restriction dex to damage feat would add 7.5-15% to damage.
Weapon focus is a 5% increase in damage dealt.
Weapon specialization +4 BAB, fighter only, and roughly a 6.3% increase in damage.
Improved critical is +8 BAB and is a 4.7-13% increase in damage.
I am just trying to show you the power of dex to damage relative to other feats. These examples should give you an idea of how many restrictions you need to put on it to make it balanced.
Based on that I would go with this.
Finesse Strike: Prereq Weapon finesse, Weapon Focus. Add half dex to melee damage.
Improved Finesse Strike: Prereq, Finesse Strike, +8 BAB. Add dex to melee weapon damage.
Each of those feats give about a 3.7-7.5% increase in damage.
Another option might be to cap the bonus to damage based on your BAB(IE you add the lower of your BAB or dex mod to damage). This would emphasize the skill acpect of the feat more.
So what you're saying is... we fixed fighters?
Ok give me two weeks.
TWO WEEKS!?
Lol. Been there, done that.
So what you're saying is... we fixed fighters?
Well considering 90% of the problem Fighters have is OUT of combat, not in...
No, not really.
So what you're saying is... we fixed fighters?Well considering 90% of the problem Fighters have is OUT of combat, not in...
No, not really.
I found increasing their skills to 4 + Int and adding heal and perception to their class skills was definitely a step in the right direction for that.
I found increasing their skills to 4 + Int and adding heal and perception to their class skills was definitely a step in the right direction for that.So what you're saying is... we fixed fighters?Well considering 90% of the problem Fighters have is OUT of combat, not in...
No, not really.
I like this change, a lot.
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Consider damage done with this feat Precision damage. It fits thematicly, useing quick strikes to target areas for maximum damage, and then creatures immune to precision damage are unaffected.
Could be a balancing factor.my second version of the feat takes this into consideration partially, since to me, "quick strikes to vital places" is only 1/2 of the equasion. Def a balancing factor.
As for fighters... Fighters dump dex all the time. By the time they can even use it effectively to enhance their AC, they can afford a belt to pump their dex up to 12 to match a full-plate, or 16 later on for mithral full-plate.
Fighters dump dex because they need strength for damage, and most of them must use strength for attack as well. Allowing the most efficient combat style (2H) to benefit from dex in both attack and damage means that 2H Fighters have no use for strength aside from encumbrance. 2H does not need the help that giving 1.5 dex to damage would have. I agree with the idea of max 1.0 modifier. Change double slice to let the offhand give full dex to damage instead of str to damage, since with this homebrew, no one would try to do str twf anyway.
This gives STR martials a reason to still exist: more damage at a lower feat and gold investment, while allowing the more durable twf, snb and one-weapon builds to not fall behind too far in damage. It also helps rogues in combat quite a bit (and they could even stick with a single weapon for the reduced feat load).
This gives STR martials a reason to still exist: more damage at a lower feat and gold investment, while allowing the more durable twf, snb and one-weapon builds to not fall behind too far in damage. It also helps rogues in combat quite a bit (and they could even stick with a single weapon for the reduced feat load).
An added buffer would be to add a "finesse" quality (which I did ages ago) to weapons that are usable with these feats. I removed weapon finesse as a feat and made it a weapon attribute. In essence, the "finesse-related" feats are only usable with weapons that possess the finesse attribute. Only 1 or 2 weapons out of all of those (edit) 2 handed weapons available in my setting have the finesse quality, both of which are spear-like, if I recall correctly.
Edited to correct for missing "2 handed weapons" from a sentence.
I can't, off the top of my head, think of any feat in the core book that's worse than weapon focus.
I can't, off the top of my head, think of any feat in the core book that's worse than weapon focus.
Really? I can:
Acrobatic, Agile Maneuvers, Alertness, Alignment Channel, Animal Affinity, Athletic, Channel Smite, Deceitful, Defensive Combat Training, Disruptive, Spellbreaker, Elemental Channel, Fleet, Improved Counterspell, Magical Aptitude, Persuasive, Run, Self-Sufficient, Simple Weapon Proficiency, Skill Focus (in any skill other than Perception, maybe Stealth, or one that qualifies you for Eldritch Heritage), Stealthy, Strike Back, Toughness is borderline, and the Entire Vital Strike Chain.
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Agility and coordination have nothing to do with speed. Coord is flexibility, balance, precision, steadiness and fast reflexes. It is not fast movement. Quick Draw does not have a coord req. Juggling requires ranks. And moving a weapon incredibly fast requires BAB.
You are confusing BAB and Skill ranks with a natural attribute. Coord does NOTHING for your speed.
The speed you can move at is a function of power. Power is about applied strength. Look at Bolt...the guy is big, tall, and he is freaking STRONG, with a high Str/weight ratio. He is NOT nimble. Your BAB and skill ranks are what allow you to use Str efficiently, not coord.
My rote answer to a feat giving Dex to Damage is:
Speed and Power: Req: Str 13
You may use your Str bonus to Reflex saves and Initiative in place of your Dex bonus.
Powerful Defense: Req: Speed and Power
You may use your Str bonus in place of your Dex bonus to AC.
Comment on my feats....etc.
If you think these feats are balanced, then sure, Dex to damage is balanced.
==Aelryinth
Dextrous characters know how to swing a weapon to gain maximum velocity with minimal effort, but you can't combine that with the brute force needed to just smash a sword into the guy.just some food for thought here i do recreative armored combat and i know a 18 year old girl that weighs about 120 lbs and she can hit as hard as one of us 200 lbs+ guys because she is fast physics says Force = mass x velocity squared so dex is just as viable for determining how hard you hit as strWhy would you think that speed is Dexterity? The speed with which you can swing a weapon is based on how strong you are.
No.
Dexterous characters have superior control over light weapons that don't require much strength to move, and can move them with great precision and steadiness.
Coord has very little to do with speed. In PF, moving weapons faster is a question of BAB.
==Aelryinth
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Aelryinth, can you cite for us in the pathfinder ruleset the following statements?
1. Dexterous characters have superior control over light weapons that don't require much strength to move
2. can move them with great precision and steadiness.
3. Coord has very little to do with speed.
4. In PF, moving weapons faster is a question of BAB.
Agile Weapon: Agile weapons are unusually well balanced and responsive. A wielder with the Weapon Finesse feat can choose to apply her Dexterity modifier to damage rolls with the weapon in place of her Strength modifier.
Weapon Finesse: You are trained in using your agility in melee combat, as opposed to brute strength.
The Pathfinder ruleset IMO does not agree with your conclusion based on your logic.
Edit: I'm not saying your logic is bad, I'm saying that the in game interpretation explains why dex can contribute to damage.
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Just ignore him, he's trying to move the discussion back by a few dozen posts.
Aelryinth, can you cite for us in the pathfinder ruleset the following statements?
1. Dexterous characters have superior control over light weapons that don't require much strength to move
2. can move them with great precision and steadiness.
3. Coord has very little to do with speed.
4. In PF, moving weapons faster is a question of BAB.
Agile Weapon: Agile weapons are unusually well balanced and responsive. A wielder with the Weapon Finesse feat can choose to apply her Dexterity modifier to damage rolls with the weapon in place of her Strength modifier.
Weapon Finesse: You are trained in using your agility in melee combat, as opposed to brute strength.
The Pathfinder ruleset IMO does not agree with your conclusion based on your logic.
Edit: I'm not saying your logic is bad, I'm saying that the in game interpretation explains why dex can contribute to damage.
1) Weapon finesse is generally only usable with light weapons. There are a few specific weapons that are also lighter then Str weapons that can be used finesse style. Thus, Finesse style combat is based on lower weight, lower damage weapons.
2) Dex is the primary attribute for all ranged attacks. Ask any archer, you don't go for speed...you go for precision and accuracy, hitting what you aim for. The object is to deliver the arrow to the target, and after you do that, you work on speed, i.e. BAB, or you take feats (i.e. Rapid Shot). Thus, Dex is the characteristic of superior precision, coordination, and control, not the stat of great speed.
3) There is nothing in the Dex description about speed. It has no effect on run. It doesn't get you more attacks. It doesn't even affect two weapon fighting anymore (it's a requirement, but it doesn't actually modify combat with two weapons). Nowhere is Dex essential to any function of moving faster.
4) At BAB +6, you get an extra attack...you wield your weapon faster. At BAB +11, you get another one.
When you get Dex 30 do you get more attacks? No.
YOu might be able to say it grants you speed with dex-based performing skills, as a higher dex means a higher check means you can juggle more things, and so your hands are moving faster...but ranks does that all by itself, and skill checks aren't a dex-based agreement on speed. You can argue Intelligence grants speed, too, because high INt would make decisions faster, and a great Int bonus would mean you can craft faster then other people.
But it has no real effect in the game.
Ergo, the PF ruleset entirely agrees with me, I'm not at all sure how you got any other outcome.
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The agile enchantment is magic. There's an enhancement that gives you wisdom to damage, too (guided). What is the justification for that?
High Dex is not high speed. Speed is always a function of power and the ability to use that power.
Does high Str always mean fast? Absolutely not. High Str does not mean high power.
Highly trained Str is, however, capable of great power and great speed if so directed. Specifically, a high Str to Weight ratio combined with training contributes to great speed, even when wielding heavy items. On the flip side, light weapons can be moved very quickly even by those with low Str, as long as they are skilled enough.
Guys with great hand speed are usually attributed to having a high degree of skill moreso then great Dexterity. Dex simply doesn't mean speed. You'll generally find those guys are in incredibly good shape, high str to weight ratio, and they practice that hand speed a lot.
===Aelryinth
Time to hide this thread, methinks.
Time to hide this thread, methinks.
Well, no, this is a legitimate discussion on how to properly balance using DEX as damage in campaigns and if it isn't completely broken period.
IMO the way to balance Dex as damage is to not make Str and Dex the same thing. I'm assuming You guys now want a way to make Dex able to affect carrying capacity? And I'm sure you'd justify it as being controlled enough to perfectly angle and position the equipment to abuse gravity.
Heckling aside...
For this to work you would need 3 things:
No shield, If you have to have a +3.5 Dex mod to have this, there is no reason they should be able to use a shield for extra defense for someone who already has +4 Dex AC. Justify this as being unable to angle and balance the sword while positioning the weight of the shield.
Never let them get 1.5 Dex modifier, You Want STR to be there for people who have both hands occupied. If they're using a two-handed weapon, give them only 1x Dex mod. If they're using two weapons, give them only 0.5 Dex mod for each weapon. IF they somehow have more than 2 arms, things end up going into the "DM's Judgement" category.
The Dex Modifier of damage is precision damage. Doesn't work against oozes, skeletons, and the like. Justification? Using Dex means your using your skill and control to target vitals, even in the midst of combat. No organs? No Dex Damage.
With These 3 rules, I'd allow the feat to apply to normally non-finesse-able weaponry. Because You have Characters like Kensai Magus, Monks, Ninja (pretty much ANY eastern class) that get nuked because they're dex-themed classes that are forced into strength to be useful (because you can't finesse katanas and their derivatives for some-reason, even though it makes beyond perfect sense.)
Time to hide this thread, methinks.Well, no, this is a legitimate discussion on how to properly balance using DEX as damage in campaigns and if it isn't completely broken period.
IMO the way to balance Dex as damage is to not make Str and Dex the same thing. I'm assuming You guys now want a way to make Dex able to affect carrying capacity? And I'm sure you'd justify it as being controlled enough to perfectly angle and position the equipment to abuse gravity.
Heckling aside...
For this to work you would need 3 things:
No shield, If you have to have a +3.5 Dex mod to have this, there is no reason they should be able to use a shield for extra defense for someone who already has +4 Dex AC. Justify this as being unable to angle and balance the sword while positioning the weight of the shield.Never let them get 1.5 Dex modifier, You Want STR to be there for people who have both hands occupied. If they're using a two-handed weapon, give them only 1x Dex mod. If they're using two weapons, give them only 0.5 Dex mod for each weapon. IF they somehow have more than 2 arms, things end up going into the "DM's Judgement" category.
The Dex Modifier of damage is precision damage. Doesn't work against oozes, skeletons, and the like. Justification? Using Dex means your using your skill and control to target vitals, even in the midst of combat. No organs? No Dex Damage.
With These 3 rules, I'd allow the feat to apply to normally non-finesse-able weaponry. Because You have Characters like Kensai Magus, Monks, Ninja (pretty much ANY eastern class) that get nuked because they're dex-themed classes that are forced into strength to be useful (because you can't finesse katanas and their derivatives for some-reason, even though it makes beyond perfect sense.)
That all generally sounds good and agreeable, except you are behind the times on precision damage. The only things not affected by it in PF are the Ooze type, and the elemental and incorporeal subtypes.
IMO the way to balance Dex as damage is to not make Str and Dex the same thing. I'm assuming You guys now want a way to make Dex able to affect carrying capacity? And I'm sure you'd justify it as being controlled enough to perfectly angle and position the equipment to abuse gravity.
Oh please don't be an idiot.
Heckling aside...
For this to work you would need 3 things:
No shield, If you have to have a +3.5 Dex mod to have this, there is no reason they should be able to use a shield for extra defense for someone who already has +4 Dex AC. Justify this as being unable to angle and balance the sword while positioning the weight of the shield.
B$*@%@*$ limitation is b*+$%#@$. Tower shields? Yeah, I can see that as being incompatible. But all shields? No, that would be b$*%&&+#.
Never let them get 1.5 Dex modifier, You Want STR to be there for people who have both hands occupied.
OK, sounds good.
If they're using a two-handed weapon, give them only 1x Dex mod.
Yep, OK, sure.
If they're using two weapons, give them only 0.5 Dex mod for each weapon.
This is retarded.
IF they somehow have more than 2 arms, things end up going into the "DM's Judgement" category.
Niche problem is niche.
The Dex Modifier of damage is precision damage. Doesn't work against oozes, skeletons, and the like. Justification? Using Dex means your using your skill and control to target vitals, even in the midst of combat. No organs? No Dex Damage.
OK.
With These 3 rules, I'd allow the feat to apply to normally non-finesse-able weaponry. Because You have Characters like Kensai Magus, Monks, Ninja (pretty much ANY eastern class) that get nuked because they're dex-themed classes that are forced into strength to be useful (because you can't finesse katanas and their derivatives for some-reason, even though it makes beyond perfect sense.)
Weapon Finesse is an example of "power creep marches on" feat.
Weapon Finesse is an example of "power creep marches on" feat.
You do realize that Weapon Finesse is from the CRB, yes?
That means it, by definition, cannot be power creep.