Well, my witch character in Skulls and Shackles bit it big time in our session last night; I won't spoil anything for those who have yet to play in the AP, but let's just say failing a perception check, getting surprised by several large vermin, and suffering a critical hit on top of two other hits during the surprise round is bad for one's health. Especially a 1st level human witch with no armor and 7 pitiful hit points. I was reduced to -9 hit points, and since I was the only member of the party with healing spells or even ranks in the heal skill, I bled out. :(
Oh well, new character! I've decided, due to a recent thread I started about inquisitors, to play one for the first time. It's a 25 point buy build, and I choose lizardfolk as my race because, well, being a humanoid dinosaur is COOL. This is what I've got thus far:
Denver
1st Level Inquisitor (Infiltrator archetype)
Str: 16
Dex: 14
Con: 16
Int: 12
Wis: 16
Cha: 8
My concept is for a spy who works for the Pirate Council, gathering information on the goings on of ships and their crews. Hence the infiltrator archetype, which will allow me to add my wisdom bonus to Bluff and diplomacy.
I'd like to make this character with a focus on melee, taking advantage of the 3 natural attacks. As of now, I have no clue what deity I'll pick, what my starting feat and traits are, or what spells to pick out, being a noob to inquisitors and divine casters in general. So I turn to you with the following questions:
1. How do I optimize my natural weapon fighting? Lizardfolk get three primary attacks, and while it will be awesome at first, I can see it starting to fall behind as we gain levels.
2. What spells should I start out with, and which are the better inquisitor spells in general?
3. I get one feat at 1st level, and two traits, one of which is a campaign trait. The feat is what's eluding me, because the one I want (power attack) I don't qualify for.
I could really use some advice, as I want to have the character last beyond two sessions, and make a good contribution to the party. Thanks all :)
Denver? Man, that takes me back.
How do I optimize my natural weapon fighting? Lizardfolk get three primary attacks, and while it will be awesome at first, I can see it starting to fall behind as we gain levels.
When your natural attacks begin to lag, buy some magical armor spikes and make those into your primary weapon. Then you will have a decent attack form along with three bonus attacks over everyone else.
What spells should I start out with, and which are the better inquisitor spells in general?
There aren't too many good ones at first level. Disguise self can help you infiltrate a variety of places and conceal your monstrous nature as needed. True strike can make you a beast at combat maneuvers. Later on, acute senses is a great spell, as is heroism. The former makes you better at finding clues whereas the latter makes you Batman.
I get one feat at 1st level, and two traits, one of which is a campaign trait. The feat is what's eluding me, because the one I want (power attack) I don't qualify for.
Armor spike proficiency.
I generally optimize my inquisitors for fast self-buffing. Riko Mycen, for example, uses a menacing weapon and the Outflank feat in conjunction with bane and heroism to give himself a +10 bonus to all of his attacks.
Try that with your teeth and claws perhaps? I hope I was of help to you.
Denver? Man, that takes me back.
How do I optimize my natural weapon fighting? Lizardfolk get three primary attacks, and while it will be awesome at first, I can see it starting to fall behind as we gain levels.
When your natural attacks begin to lag, buy some magical armor spikes and make those into your primary weapon. Then you will have a decent attack form along with three bonus attacks over everyone else.
What spells should I start out with, and which are the better inquisitor spells in general?
There aren't too many good ones at first level. Disguise self can help you infiltrate a variety of places and conceal your monstrous nature as needed. True strike can make you a beast at combat maneuvers. Later on, acute senses is a great spell, as is heroism. The former makes you better at finding clues whereas the latter makes you Batman.
I get one feat at 1st level, and two traits, one of which is a campaign trait. The feat is what's eluding me, because the one I want (power attack) I don't qualify for.
Armor spike proficiency.
I generally optimize my inquisitors for fast self-buffing. Riko Mycen, for example, uses a menacing weapon and the Outflank feat in conjunction with bane and heroism to give himself a +10 bonus to all of his attacks.
Try that with your teeth and claws perhaps? I hope I was of help to you.
Thanks for the ideas, Ravingdork! I've never once considered armor spikes as a primary weapon; the only time I've even had them on a character was in a weird campaign where the DM was grapple-happy. Seriously, *everything* had grab in one form or another.
So basically, I would use the armor spikes as my main attack, and then I could use each of my natural attacks as secondary attacks, suffering a -5 on them unless I pick up multiattack, which would reduce it to -2, correct?
With that in mind, it might be a good idea to pick up crafting feats to ease the cost of buffing both armor spikes and natural attacks.
By the way, nice character. He's got killer stats.
Also, good catch on the name. It went over most of my groups heads (They're younger than I). :)
So basically, I would use the armor spikes as my main attack, and then I could use each of my natural attacks as secondary attacks, suffering a -5 on them unless I pick up multiattack, which would reduce it to -2, correct?
Correct.
This makes me miss my Southern Gentleman Lizardfolk PC.
You *have* to give details on that character.
Another question for those who've played an inquisitor, which domains are best suited for them; I imagine the sun domain is of no use, for instance.
Currently, I'm fairly open on deity and alignment, so as far as I can tell the skies the limit.
I'm trying to find a good balance between killing all life and being sneaky and subtle.
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This makes me miss my Southern Gentleman Lizardfolk PC.You *have* to give details on that character.
You can see a bit about him here.
You can see a bit about him here.This makes me miss my Southern Gentleman Lizardfolk PC.You *have* to give details on that character.
Very cool. I see you used Dragon Style. How was that?
For the natural attack problem, there are a few solutions. Outside of one judgment, you do not really have a source of extra damage from each attack, like a fighter, rogue, paladin, or ranger might, the options are a bit limited. I am not sure I can advise the armor spikes since all your natural attacks become secondary attacks, and thus only get 1/2 your strength bonus to attack. It is better to pick up another natural attack instead. The helm of the mammothlord is always a favorite for this purpose since it is a primary 1d6 attack that does not take up any limbs....plus you can talk to elephants. And detect...elephants. And get bonuses to handle animal checks...to elephants. Anyway, pick that up around level 10 or so. when 3 natural attacks start to sputter out.
Other than that, all I can say is this: power attack your heart out. You technically have the same number of attacks at level 1 that a 20th level inquistor has at level 20, and they are all at full BAB. So it is not as much of a problem for you when compared to other 3/4 BAB characters. If you do pick up that 4th natural attack, then you are pretty much set for doing damage.
For the natural attack problem, there are a few solutions. Since you do not have source of extra damage from each attack, like a fighter, rogue, paladin, or ranger might, the options are a bit limited. I am not sure I can advise the armor spikes since all your natural attacks become secondary attacks, and thus only get 1/2 your strength bonus to attack. It is better to pick up another natural attack instead. The helm of the mammothlord is always a favorite for this purpose since it is a primary 1d6 attack that does not take up any limbs....plus you can talk to elephants. And detect...elephants. And get bonuses to handle animal checks...to elephants. Anyway, pick that up around level 10 or so. when 3 natural attacks start to sputter out.
Other than that, all I can say is this: power attack your heart out. You technically have the same number of attacks at level 1 that a 20th level inquistor has at level 20, and they are all at full BAB. So it is not as much of a problem for you when compared to other 3/4 BAB characters. If you do pick up that 4th natural attack, then you are pretty much set for doing damage.
Hmmm, that's a good point about the secondary attacks. I had forgotten that they are all at half-damage.
I'm actually happy with the number of attacks I get; like you said, an inquisitor only gets a max of three anyway. The issue I'm thinking of is damage. Each of the natural attacks only does a d4, which isn't all that useful as you level. I may have to multiclass to get some kind of boost, perhaps as a monk for a level or two to get some style feats, or a barbarian to get rage. I don't know. I'd like to have some ideas before it becomes a problem; since I'm only first level, that should be a while.
Or pick a deity with the rage subdomain? Going with the beast totem would eventually make you very formidable. kicks in a level or too late, but it is in the general ball park of where you lose effectiveness. Of course, taking improved natural weapon, two levels barbarian, and beast totem for the claws would get you two 1d8 blows. That might give you more immediate power up.
Still, you have to think about how likely you are going to hit. With natural attacks you would about always get your hits in. But with a manufactured weapon, the last hit is just about always wasted since it is so low. So even if you compare it to say, a level 20 inquisitor with a greatsword (just looking at damage dice), it would be an average of 14 versus your 13 if you got the helm and maybe improved natural weapon (claws). With the two extra hits, you can are just points behind from the power attacks, and your over all STR bonus would be x4 versus a two handed weapons x3 in the two hit scenario.
This does ignore the problems of DR though...but picking a useful alignment for the smiting judgment will soften that a bit. Your attacks count as alignment at level 6 and adamantine at level 10 with that judgment. But the style feats might not be a terrible idea.
So, I'm thinking I may end up dipping into monk for two levels starting at third. I know it's frowned upon in Pathfinder to dip, especially with a class like the inquisitor, but I figure that dip will allow me to deal an excellent amount of damage, damage that will hopefully scale as I level.
I figure that I'll spend my 1st level feat on Weapon Focus (claws). Then at third level, I dip into Monk (Master of Many Styles). I use the feat I get at 3rd level to pick up Feral Combat Training, and use the bonus feat for Monk to get Boar Style, which will allow me to do 2d6 extra damage if I hit with both claws. Then at 4th level, I pick up Boar Shred, which will add 1d6 bleed damage to the mix.
It will be painful delaying things like Bane, but I figure that the Boar Style feats have more staying power; Bane is incredible, but only lasts so long, and I've heard that some parts of the Skulls and Shackles AP involve running battles with little time for rest.
Any thoughts?
Ask your DM if you can repurpose catfolk claws for your purposes. Basically makes it an enchantable weapon with a built in +1 bonus to hit.
Improved Natural Attack: ups one type of natural attack one dice size so your d4s become d6s. Take it once for claws, once for bite.
Amulet of Mighty Fists +1: +1 attack/damage enhancement bonus to ALL natural attacks for 5k gold.
The amulet is on my list of items to get as soon as possible. I'm not so certain about Improved Natural Attack, though. I mean, increasing the damage dice to d6 averages out to just 1 extra point of damage. I'm not certain it's worth it, to be honest.
While the claws are obvious, since it would effect both of them and thus +2 to average damage, but is the bite worth it? That would be a +1.
Claws also might have advantages if you mix it with rage powers to amp up their size further. Just going off of beast totem, you would have 2 1d8 attacks. Bite...well it just doesn't get much attention most of the time.
Another off the wall suggestion: alchemist 2 with the feral mutagen discovery. This would give you 20 minutes of a decent boost to strength and natural armor, and it would bring your natural attacks to 1d6 claws and a 1d8 bite. Admittedly, you would have to brew a new mutagen afterwards. Maybe alchemist 3 since it would give you swift alchemy, giving you 30 minutes of mutagen for 30 minutes of prep time.
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I figure that I'll spend my 1st level feat on Weapon Focus (claws)....
Unfortunately, Weapon Focus requires a +1 BAB, which an Inquisitor does not have at 1st level. You'll need to delay your feat progression or else ask your GM to house rule it.
So, I'm thinking I may end up dipping into monk for two levels starting at third. I know it's frowned upon in Pathfinder to dip, especially with a class like the inquisitor, but I figure that dip will allow me to deal an excellent amount of damage, damage that will hopefully scale as I level.
...
It will be painful delaying things like Bane, but I figure that the Boar Style feats have more staying power; Bane is incredible, but only lasts so long, and I've heard that some parts of the Skulls and Shackles AP involve running battles with little time for rest.
Bane is a sweet ability but it's hardly the only thing in an Inquisitor's arsenal - your Judgments pull a lot of weight and last a whole battle, and solo tactics is always on. You'll just have to manage your limited-use abilities a little more carefully. The Bane Baldric and Extra/Extended Bane give you more rounds if you need them.
And if you want to go for Feral Combat Training and use Styles, a MoMS dip is huge: for two levels you get three key feats, a nice boost to saves, Evasion (goes nicely with the Inquisitor's Stalwart), if you ever go armourless you'll get +3 or more to AC, and you can use two Styles at once if you want to pick up something other than Boar. Snake Style is great on an Inquisitor - your sense motive can go just as high as your Intimidate if you want it to.
Amulet of Mighty Fists +1: +1 attack/damage enhancement bonus to ALL natural attacks for 5k gold.
4K. They changed it.
I figure that I'll spend my 1st level feat on Weapon Focus (claws)....Unfortunately, Weapon Focus requires a +1 BAB, which an Inquisitor does not have at 1st level. You'll need to delay your feat progression or else ask your GM to house rule it.
Ugh. That screws everything up. That means I won't qualify for Feral Combat Training until 5th level...ugh! And without Feral Combat Training, the monk dips are pointless; my natural attacks would be far superior to one lame unarmed strike, even with boar style. Especially since I need to hit twice to rend. >.<
Welp, back to the drawing board.
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Would it help to dip Unarmed Fighter? It doesn't have as many perks as the MoMS, but if you take the Fighter level at 1st you qualify for Weapon Focus at 1st level and still get Improved Unarmed Strike and a bonus style feat at that level.
In that case you might want two dips - add a MoMS level at 2 or 3 to get Boar Shred. Or you could just keep it to one level in Unarmed Fighter, and use your general feats to get Boar Ferocity at 7, and Boar Shred at 9.
You could also just use a weapon or UAS until you get FCT at 5 as a MoMS 2 / Inquisitor 3. It's not that long to wait for a good combo to kick in.
Would it help to dip Unarmed Fighter? It doesn't have as many perks as the MoMS, but if you take the Fighter level at 1st you qualify for Weapon Focus at 1st level and still get Improved Unarmed Strike and a bonus style feat at that level.
In that case you might want two dips - add a MoMS level at 2 or 3 to get Boar Shred. Or you could just keep it to one level in Unarmed Fighter, and use your general feats to get Boar Ferocity at 7, and Boar Shred at 9.
You could also just use a weapon or UAS until you get FCT at 5 as a MoMS 2 / Inquisitor 3. It's not that long to wait for a good combo to kick in.
I did think of unarmed fighter. But unfortunately, I'm locked into inquisitor for my first level, since my character has already entered the game. My DM is nice enough to let us modify our characters during first level, but race and class are stuck.
I suppose in the long run, waiting 5 levels for awesome isn't *that* bad, but from what I've heard about Skulls and Shackles, I'll most likely get eaten by a greasy sea monster before that happens.
Part of my grumpiness stems from the fact that my feat progression is now messed up; I was planing on having Power Attack by 5th level, now I have to wait until 7th, and that still leaves me with a first level feat that I can't fill with anything satisfying.
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Talk to your GM. If you made a first-level character with Weapon Focus when you shouldn't qualify for the feat, he may be more lenient in allowing a rebuild. He may even let you keep the feat, you never know - I've seen a homebrew trait that says "treat your BAB as +1 for the purpose of feat prerequisites".
Judgment Surge isn't a bad idea for a replacement if necessary.
Talk to your GM. If you made a first-level character with Weapon Focus when you shouldn't qualify for the feat, he may be more lenient in allowing a rebuild. He may even let you keep the feat, you never know - I've seen a homebrew trait that says "treat your BAB as +1 for the purpose of feat prerequisites".
Judgment Surge isn't a bad idea for a replacement if necessary.
He's not big on houserules, but I'll run it by him. More than likely, he'll say "no." But you're right, Judgement Surge is a pretty good feat to pick up.
So the question now is what God/idea to follow, and what domain to pick up. Some are better than others, I'm sure, but I'd like to stick with my original concept (a spy). So far, I have my eye on the Travel domain, because it's so useful, but I'm unsure.
Also, how are the inquisitor archetypes? I haven't seen much talk of them on the boards, and the Inquisitor Guide doesn't touch on them, either. Are they any good? Or would it be better to just stick with basic inquisitor. As of now, I'm thinking of Infiltrator, but it gives up some of the cooler inquisitor abilities (stern gaze and monster lore).
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From what I've heard, most of the Inquisitions aren't great, except for the Heresy and Conversion Inquisitions if you want to use Wis for social skills. If you take the Infiltrator archetype that benefit is irrelevant, in which case Travel is a good idea. It is very useful, and it's also thematic for a pirate. Liberation would be another solid option.
Besmara, the Pirate Queen, would be the obvious deity choice, but she doesn't give Travel. Desna and Cayden both give Travel and would probably suit a pirate. They also both give Liberation.
Infiltrator seems decent but not fantastic to me. Losing Stern Gaze will be unfortunate if you plan on using Boar Shred's "Intimidate as move action" benefit, though the Misdirection effect might also be very useful depending on whether the AP requires intrigue. Monster Lore is nice, but isn't crucial if the rest of the party has decent Knowledge skills - you mentioned that you're replacing a witch, so I'm assuming you know whether your party is relying on you to ID the monsters. Infiltrator is neat for a spy concept - but you can still play an Inquisitor as a spy without it.
I personally like the Preacher archetype, because the ability to make opponents reroll threatened criticals is very nice. But Solo Tactics is also very handy, especially if you're planning on being in melee with allies.
I'm not too familiar with the others, but Iconoclast, Spellbreaker, and Heretic look OK but not fantastic (the first two are more or less useful depending on how often you fight magical foes). They're also not compatible with Infiltrator. Exorcist, Vampire Hunter, Witch Hunter, and Sin Eater all look flavourful but not very useful.