King_Of_The_Crossroads's page

King_Of_The_Crossroads wrote:

gesalt wrote:

Your first level slots are better spent on things like illusory object given how brutal illusions are in this edition.

I've seen this suggested a few times, but am a bit clueless about illusions for this edition. Can you can explain?

My past experience with illusions is from previous editions of the game, and I tended to avoid using them, because there was always a conflict between how the DM and player interpreted the effect.

Has that changed in pathfinder 2e?

As Burntgerb mentioned, illusions don't get a save without spending an action. This can pretty easily be used to set up no save action denial, cover and whatever else.

Illusory object is also horrifyingly versatile given that the example given is a waterfall of all things. It also doesn't have the mental tag so it doesn't get blocked by mental immunity.

Eventually, things will auto save through it with passive true sight or something, but by the time that's a regular occurrence you have access to upper spells to handle things.

Oh wow, that is pretty different. So now the standard is that the targets believe the illusion is real and have to spend actions seeing through it.

Okay, I can see the possibilities. I'm not good with illusions, but I will definitely be working on that.

Your first level slots are better spent on things like illusory object given how brutal illusions are in this edition.

I've seen this suggested a few times, but am a bit clueless about illusions for this edition. Can you can explain?

My past experience with illusions is from previous editions of the game, and I tended to avoid using them, because there was always a conflict between how the DM and player interpreted the effect.

Has that changed in pathfinder 2e?

I should clarify that at 4-6th levels you're probably not going to need Faerie Fire or Liberating Command, but they're definitely handy for later on.

Additionally, Magic Missile is my Esoteric Polymath extra daily signature spell - so I could cast it from every slot at every level in a pinch.

Faerie Fire is definitely one I want to get in scroll form; not useful very often, but when you need it, you need it.

I'm considering magic missile, but also phantom pain. I've heard it can be pretty strong if enemies fail their save.

IMO Marshal has to stay too close to the gang.

For support, Dispel Magic is a fine Signature spell. It might not be used every day, but when you need it you might need to spam it.

Swap out Magic Weapon since hopefully the warriors have Striking weapons/Handwraps!

Consider Magic Missile; not for normal battles, definitely not for meat machines, but for bosses and incorporeal creatures. It would need to be Signature to remain viable (and worth your actions). What I'd recommend doing is scouting out which Signature spells you're going to want (factoring in the party's other casters too). You might end up wanting Soothe at 2nd level as a Signature spell w/ Magic Missile at 1st (not that you'll necessarily cast it at 1st, but there's likely a better 3rd level spell for Signature). Then again, a 1st level Soothe has use (due to the Will save boost) so you might even take Magic Missile at 2nd as a Signature (despite that +1 level doing nothing) if you'll never cast it at 1st anyway (at least soon you won't).
If not Magic Missile, you will need to find some emergency offensive spell that you do like and you can keep up to snuff.

Your party's interesting since you have Arcane, Primal, Divine, & Occult covered! The Sorcerer will be the one to balance your choices with, since they're stuck w/ their list too. While it's not a bad thing to have two casters spamming Magic Missile against a boss (which at max level can take down a boss in several rounds if the blockers/healers can keep you alive), having two PCs w/ Dispel Magic as a Signature spell is too redundant IMO. Likely they (and the Druid) will be better for the AoE effects and the Warpriest (and again the Druid) for healing (w/ Soothe being an emergency measure or for the Will bonus). That leaves you a lot of space to play! Personally I'd go w/ cool utility or tricks (like illusions) they can't cover and single-target debuffs (like Slow) that have a worthwhile effect even if your enemy saves. IMO your party's too big for personal buffs/defense, yet...

Magic Weapon is something I'll definitely trade out eventually, but so far, we only have one striking rune in the party, so I may need to keep it a little longer.

I agree with you on Dispel Magic as a signature; It has come in handy a couple of times.

What do you typically do in combat? Where are you positioning yourself? Do you feel like you are contributing to the combat effectively?

Are there any weaknesses of the team that you have noticed? When things go badly, what went wrong?

Answering those types of questions should help lead you to how to improve your effectiveness.

I'm usually in the back, buff via inspire courage. Offensively, I switch between using eletric arc, telekinetic projectile, or firing my bow, depending on how many actions I have available.

I'm playing a leshy Maestro Bard in the Extinction Curse. The DM has informed us that we should be hitting level 5 after next session, and I'm looking for some advice on what to do with my character.

Specifically, I'll be looking to retrain some of my class feats- as I haven't really used most of them-- and pick up an archetype. The thing is, I have no idea what archetype I should be looking at. I'm fairly new to pathfinder 2e, so I'm still getting the hang of the rules.

We are a rather big party. Besides my character, we have a Strix war priest, a Catfolk Ranger with a fire cat animal companion, a Kitsune Genie Sorcerer, a Fleshwarp Monk, and a Halfling Leaf Druid. My character plays support, while the war priest, monk, and animal companion act as tanks.

The basics of my character:

Mike Onyd, Leshy (Changeling) Maestro Bard; Str 10, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 18

Class Feats: Lingering Composition (Maestro), Multifarious Muse (Enigma), Bardic Lore, Inspire Competence.

Spells Known

Cantrips- Electric Arc (Virga May), Telekinetic Projectile, Detect Magic, Message, Dancing Lights, Guidance

1st- Sooth (Maestro), Illusory Object, Color Spray, Magic Weapon.

2nd- Invisibility, Summon Fey, Dispel Magic

I am looking to retrain Multifarious Muse and Inspire Competence, since I haven't really used either feats more than once or twice; the sorcerer is a knowledge monkey (fox?) so bardic knowledge combined with my low intelligence are pretty useless.

So,

I'd like to trade those feats in for an archetype of some sort, something to had some spice to my character. What would be a worthwhile archetype to jump into for a mostly support bard?

What are good spell selections for 3rd level spells? 3rd level spells are usually game changers in other editions, but I'm uncertain how important they are in pathfinder 2e.

What should I pick for my 2nd level signature spell? Soothe is my 1st level signature, and it has proven useful, but I don't know about 2nd level.

Thanks all!

King_Of_The_Crossroads wrote:

Totally Not Gorbacz wrote:

What are you supposed to use for fighting with STR 14 DEX 14, harsh words and soft pornography?

Lol

The point being, it sucks to have to optimize just to be average. It sucks that having a 14 dex-- which is what my character, the party bard, has-- is considered bad.

I'm not saying my bard is in melee a lot, but just as an example. If you don't have an 18 in a stat, that stat is garbage.

What does "bad" mean? It's fine, and I've played a light-armor wearing Ranger with 14 DEX. But you're less evasive than someone with 18 DEX. That should be pretty.. obvious..? And for what it's worth, at 5th level you can increase your DEX to 16 with the ability score boost and you will be on par for the rest of the campaign assuming you use a chain shirt.

Despite what you're saying, PF2E is not really about stat stacking. As other people keep saying and you keep ignoring, just standing there and imagining your character avoiding blows because he has high stats is not how the game works.

Yeah, not ignoring the importance of tactics. In a previous post, I outlined how the monk was doing things like moving, flurry, attempting trips, and still was consistently knocked on his but because enemies can easily surpass pc armor class.

Again, my issue isn't with *getting* hit, it is with the ratio at which high ac character seem to get hit-- and crit-- by every mob in the game.

And by "bad," I mean, not maximum. Yes, obviously 14 Dex isn't going to be as agile as 18 Dex. But, as people keep pointing out to me, ever number is important, since all the enemies are crit happy. A 14 Dex is "bad" in that it means you are two points behind on dodging attacks or reflex saves, which can get you killed.

Since the game seems to be designed around a player having *at best* a 50% chance of not getting hit or avoiding an effect, being two points behind is not just suboptimal, but suicidal. Or at least, that's how I assume it is, since I keep seeing praise for providing a measly +1 to attacks.

What are you supposed to use for fighting with STR 14 DEX 14, harsh words and soft pornography?

Lol

The point being, it sucks to have to optimize just to be average. It sucks that having a 14 dex-- which is what my character, the party bard, has-- is considered bad.

I'm not saying my bard is in melee a lot, but just as an example. If you don't have an 18 in a stat, that stat is garbage.

The optimum for starting stats is 18 in your attack stat, max DEX to you heaviest armor cap, then max saves stats with WIS being the prime target because of Perception/Initiative.

Can you provide us with examples of the encounters?

Veteran PF1 players are prone to using tactics that were excellent in PF1 and will end up in TPK in PF2 (example : putting all your actions into attacks).

And veteran PF1 GMs might not realize that tactics that made encounters challenging in PF1 (play the monsters as smart and ruthless as possible, merge encounters because it makes sense) will turn them into TPK in PF2.

We are currently playing Extinction Curse, and we encountered a couple of weird bug demons. Our monk-- who is dex based and uses crane stance-- was fighting one of them. He was using hit and run tactics-- move in, flurry, move away. But it didn't matter because every time the worm guys attacked, they still managed to hit him. And 4 of those attacks were crits; our DM rolls in full view of us, so we could see the rolls and the modifiers.

Poor monk went down twice, while our ranger only stayed up because his animal companion went down.

Stuff like this has happened a couple of times thus far.

Then maybe this isn't the game for you, because 50-60% odds of success is par for the course in P2e.

Ugh. Maybe you're right.

But it feels as if you still have to heavily optimize in this version-- but rather than being god-tier, optimization makes you decent. If you, say, play a fighter with only a 14 in Str and Dex, then you are pretty bad.

Say what you will about 5e-- believe me, I have issues with that system as well-- but at least I can play a character that doesn't require constant work just so that I can maybe have 50% odds of not getting hit.

I think I just don't like that this system seems to be based around avoiding getting crit, rather than avoiding getting hit.

My fighter fantasy of playing the dashing lightly armored fencer who dances between his foes seems pretty unobtainable when every enemy can casually eviscerate you.

Again, I'm not complaining about getting hit, I just don't like how much effort you have to put into being halfway good at avoiding hits.

I don't have an issue with getting hit; it comes with playing a game like this. My issue is with how often you get hit, and how hard. I guess I don't agree with a game design that is based around having *maybe* a 50% chance of getting hit if you optimize that way.

As it stands, if almost feels like if you don't have max points put in Dex or Con, you are dead meat most of the time.

King_Of_The_Crossroads wrote:

That's... disappointing.

Heh, I guess I won't be playing a melee focused character in this edition. Constantly getting pounded into paste with no ways of avoiding sound unfun and definitely not how I would want to play a swordsman.

There are plenty of ways to mitigate or even avoid the damage.

Not ending your turn within melee reach is a good start.

Please enlighten me!

I'm trying to get a feel for the game, but so far my experience is watching players get brutalized by everything, and magic just being crappy one round debuffs-- because I also notice most bad guys seem to make their saves the majority of the time.

Are pc's supposed to be pathetic in this system?

That's... disappointing.

Heh, I guess I won't be playing a melee focused character in this edition. Constantly getting pounded into paste with no ways of avoiding sound unfun and definitely not how I would want to play a swordsman.

I'm new to the system, and my group has only been playing for a few months, but I've noticed that our characters are getting hit-- and crit-- waaaay more often than in other editions.

It has gotten to the point where we have had players opt out of playing melee characters because no matter what they do, the enemies seem to be able to knock our teeth in with casual ease.

Am I imagining things? Or is this system designed in such a way that the odds of getting missed are lower than average?

Granted, we are only 3rd level, but even characters optimized for high AC are routinely getting crit by random mooks, let alone boss level enemies. Are we supposed to be that fragile?

So, you are full of healings ( druid, witch and warpriest ).

There are also 3 melee ( ranger, warpriest and companion ).

and 2 ranged ( witch, druid ).

I think you can go with anything you want given that party, but I now suggest you a dual/Triple stance monk.

Monastic Archer Stance as main stance ( being able to swap to longbow if needed, making you able to kite while shooting arrows and use the flurry with your bow ).

As secondary, since you'll be using dex, I'd go with tiger stance ( finesse, agile, 1d8 and wider step, to close gaps with enemies with AoO ) and eventually crane stance ( for defensive purposes and easy trigger with your AoO ).

That's certainly a good point. Now that we have a good balance of melee and ranged ability, I can play something besides a monk if I choose. Hmmm.

So it looks like the party dynamic has shifted a bit.

Other than myself, we now have a Catfolk melee ranger with animal companion, a halfling leaf druid, a shrix war priest, and a human night witch.

For Trip you can if you take the Acrobat dedication and Tumbling Opportunist at 10. I believe that's the only way since they errata'd to clarify that finesse doesn't allow it.

Ah, okay. I guess I'll have to work on getting strength boosts.

Thanks!

Quick question: is there a way to use your Dex stat instead of strength for actions like trip or shove?

I'm thinking of going Dex focused on this monk, and I'd like to still be able to do that kind of stuff.

King_Of_The_Crossroads wrote:

NECR0G1ANT wrote:

I don’t play monks, but here’s some brief advice:

1. Focus on STR, DEX, CON, WIS. Dump CHA and INT, since your party members have those covered. Either pick an ancestry with a flaw (dwarf, leshy, lizardfolk, conrasu) or choose a two-boost ancestry (human, orc, tengu, fetchling, fleshwarp, goloma, strix) and use Voluntary Flaw to dump CHA and INT. All but dwarf and human are Uncommon or Rare, so get GM permission. Since it’s a circus AP, they should be fine with exotic options...

1. Probably solid advice, but I hate, hate, HATE playing dumb slobs. One of the reasons I never played monks in previous editions is that they all seemed to require dumping Int and Cha.

Yeah, that's why I don't play monks. All classes need CON and WIS, monks need both STR and DEX, which leaves INT and CHA out.

Lol, that's fair.

King_Of_The_Crossroads wrote:

2. Yup, I'll be avoiding mountain stance, since I want to be mobile.

You say that like a monk isn't still going to end up with 55+ speed.

By mobile, I mean leaping around and running up walls. I don't plan on always touching the ground, and don't want my character to have that restriction in order to avoid having a garbage AC.

I don’t play monks, but here’s some brief advice:
1. Focus on STR, DEX, CON, WIS. Dump CHA and INT, since your party members have those covered. Either pick an ancestry with a flaw (dwarf, leshy, lizardfolk, conrasu) or choose a two-boost ancestry (human, orc, tengu, fetchling, fleshwarp, goloma, strix) and use Voluntary Flaw to dump CHA and INT. All but dwarf and human are Uncommon or Rare, so get GM permission. Since it’s a circus AP, they should be fine with exotic options.

2. If you choose a stance you like (avoiding Mountain Stance since you value mobility). Depending on which stance, increase either STR or DEX to 18. Leave the other at 14 along with CON and WIS.

3. Consider wearing a shield and using the Raise a Shield action. To mitigate damage, get the Shield Block general feat and a Sturdy Shield. To boost saves vs. spells, get the Spellguard Shield.

4. You might enjoy using Athletics to do combat manuevers like Trip, Grapple, Shove etc. I recommend the Flurry of Maneuvers feat.

5. To punish enemies that move past you, select the Stand Still feat, maybe combine with a bo staff? (although then you couldn’t use a shield, but you could parry, then get Whirlwind Stance at level 10?)

6. The Staff Acrobat is really good and thematic, but you might be too feat-starved. Are you using the Free Archetype variant rule by chance?

7. Remember to flank with the orc...

1. Probably solid advice, but I hate, hate, HATE playing dumb slobs. One of the reasons I never played monks in previous editions is that they all seemed to require dumping Int and Cha.

2. Yup, I'll be avoiding mountain stance, since I want to be mobile.

3. Shields are definitely solid. I'm glad monks are finally able to use them.

4. That's the idea, yes.

Thanks, this is a good start. :)

I was actually playing around with pathbuilder yesterday to create a Stumbling feint Ki-blast Monk build, Max Dex-Wis, cha, no str. Could be fun, gives you extra options in combat. With the Cha, you could go for some face skills, or you could use the WIS to slap on the Medic archetype (high wis, free hand) for some medicine actions during combat.

Ohhh, that sounds interesting. How would it work?

Okay, I think I've settled on playing a monk. It will give me plenty of options as far as combat goes, and I like the mobility that is built into the class.

Does anyone have any good tips or tricks for building monks in pathfinder 2e? The last time I played a monk was about 3 years ago in 5e.

Is the Orc ranger melee or ranged? Because if he's ranged your party currently has 4 ranged PCs and no front-liner.

I believe he is ranged. Which will be an issue, I'm sure. He does have an animal companion, though.

I've been having a ton of fun with Swashbuckler (Braggart). I run him as a bit of a trickster dedicated to Cayden.

How does the swashbuckler play in game? I haven't seen one in use yet.

King_Of_The_Crossroads wrote:

HumbleGamer wrote:

About the tank, you should expand your toughts towards the class and what you mean when you say "dull".

A spellcaster is tied to cantrips for most of his journey, making the class even more "dull" than any other combatant imo.

Anyway, have you considered the monk class?

For me, dull is sitting in one spot, trading hits with enemies. In addition, most martials have the flaw of having few skills outside of being a punching bag, meaning they aren't all that useful outside of combat.

I favor spell casters because they have many ways of playing the game, even if they are limited on how often they can do so. Conjuring walls, flight, summon demons, etc.

If that's the case, what about a Warpriest or a Wild Druid?

You could swap from "combatant" to "spellcaster" depending on the needs of your party or your currently way of playing.

Also, depends your dedication ( if any ) you'd be able to go deep in a specific direction, making you a more efficient spellcaster or melee or even support ( for example, the medic dedication ).

If you don't want to trade offensive stuff, I'd suggest you a Wild druid:

- Maximum spellcasting DC
- Excellent ( and versatile ) combat efficiency depends your form
- One of the best Spellcasting Tradition ( blasting + healing stuff, along with some useful summons too )
- Eventually, a companion without the need to take a dedicaiton ( with an excellent progression, and not a stiff one like the ranger, or even the champion ).

A wild druid might be interesting, but I've heard that the wild shape rules are kind of confusing and much of it is hotly debated. My group and I are relatively new to pathfinder 2e.

A crusty juggler

The greater good.

About the tank, you should expand your toughts towards the class and what you mean when you say "dull".

A spellcaster is tied to cantrips for most of his journey, making the class even more "dull" than any other combatant imo.

Anyway, have you considered the monk class?

For me, dull is sitting in one spot, trading hits with enemies. In addition, most martials have the flaw of having few skills outside of being a punching bag, meaning they aren't all that useful outside of combat.

I favor spell casters because they have many ways of playing the game, even if they are limited on how often they can do so. Conjuring walls, flight, summon demons, etc.

So, our group will be beginning the Extinction Curse ap next week, and I have no idea what to play.

So far, the party consists of an Orc Ranger, a Witch (type unknown), a Cosmos Oracle, and a leaf order Druid.

As for me, I can't decide on what to play. I'd like to play something... outside the norm, something befitting the circus life. I know the party could use some sort of tank, but I find martial characters dull and try to avoid them, though if anyone has an idea of one that is more flavorful then "I run up and hit it," I'd be glad to hear about it.

Thanks!

I see this old thread was before the Investigator. They can max out Int and with Devise a Stratagem they can use it for ranged attacks, melee, attacks, and athletics maneuvers (with Athletic Stratagist). They can also pick up Wizard MC or Witch MC to use Int for cantrips.

An Investigator/Wizard MC holding a starknife and a whip can use Int for:
• melee attack with starknife
• nonlethal melee attack with whip
• ranged attack with starknife
• trip with whip
• disarm with trip
• cantrip targeting AC or a save

If they also keep Dex high they can use that for secondary attacks such as:
• melee attack with starknife
• nonlethal melee attack with whip
• ranged attack with starknife

That's a lot of flexibility.

Are investigators considered martial characters? They feel more like a skill monkey class, what with their feats and high intelligence requirements.

I've mentioned this in various Great Alchemist Debate threads, but I absolutely agree that an optimized alchemist ends up being the "backup everything" character that's actually disproportionately good for PFS and not disproportionately bad for APs.

Would it be possible to expand on this? A player in my group is an alchemist, and is having a little trouble with it.

EDIT TO SAY: HAVE FUN WITH IT. It's really not over-powered. I took it for flavor as I was building a Sylph Sprite who will pick up and use Gusting Winds Initiate as their primary martial arts attack, and I took Sprite's Spark as a conceptual filler for levels 1-7.

I find the concept of tiny creatures beating the snot out of much larger creatures to be amusing, so sprite characters definitely interest me.

If I may ask, have you had the opportunity to play the sprite monk? And if so, how did it fair?

Plus, though I'd likely not take the two feats, sometimes you can throw an evil overlord's dagger back in his head, even if it was your dagger to begin with.
Cheers.

"It's all in the reflexes."

Gotta love Big Trouble in Little China. :)

NEW CHARACTER!

POSSIBLE TRIGGER WARNING: Character background makes vague mention of the trafficking of intelligent beings.

Lily Lyrandar, Finder of the Lost (LG female half-elf detective investigator 4)

“The trafficking of sentient beings is not only an injustice to the victim, but an injustice unto the families and friends of that victim as well. It is these sorts of injustices that I intend to correct.”

Lily Lyrandar is an extraordinarily successful private eye and detective living in Absalom. She is widely considered to be one of the best in the business and is well known for her keen sense of deduction and uncanny ability to find missing people.

Though she will take on other kinds of cases, Lily’s specialty lies in finding lost people. A survivor of trafficking, Lily spends most of her time tracking down and rescuing victims of trafficking. This personal crusade has earned her many bitter enemies, a testament to her success. She frequently uses a broad network of contacts (many of whom are people she has—or is working towards—rescuing) to gain access to secure areas, secure peoples’ trust, and get the information she needs—often without anyone ever being alerted to her inquiries and activities.

Tactics: As a strong "roleplaying" character, use your contacts and social skills (and skill feats) to discreetly find hidden information with which to aid the party progress the story quickly and efficiently. Be sure to talk to your GM in advance on how best to accomplish this.

Inspiration: Nancey Drew, Sherlock Holmes, Tom Welles (8MM)

I really like this character! I'm getting some strong Jessica Jones vibes from her as well.

How do the sprite's spark (or Kitsune's foxfire) interact with monk abilities?
Can a sprite flurry with the spark? And how does it work with something like stances?

One thing to bear in mind is that an alchemist pretty much has to be a generalist. you've got bombs, and they're great. If the character really likes bombs, then you (assuming you are DM) should take a look at Dual Weapon Warrior archetype, and decide if its feats should work for bombs or not. If they do, that's a good solid way for a bomber to actually get some attack actions (though it might be best to wait until level 7).

...but the generalist thing. If you try to play them as a pure bomber, they're going to be kind of sad and underpowered overall, because a decent chunk of the alchemist power budget was spent on their profound versatility. There's all the buffs you can offer, and free healing potions can be nice, but in particular I encourage you to look at the list of alchemical tools. Have your alchemist be looking for recipes for *those*. A lot of them are very situational, and they're kind fo expensive and/or heavy to carry around in quantities, but once your alchemist knows the recipes, they can just have them on hand any time they like for the cost of an infused reagent. In the right circumstances, they can be real party-savers.

As for the complexity... yeah. That's kind of the nature of the beast. The alchemist is a complicated class even on the face of it, and playing one *well* involves more complexity still.

I'm not the DM, just another player in the group.

That is a good point about being a generalist. I think part of the issue is a lack of understanding that fact, as well as the lack of resources. I assume as he gains levels and learns new recipes, the character will be a lot more useful.

He just needs to learn the lesson that bombs aren't the answer to every problem. :p

I've been playing a Bomber Alchemist in PFS for a while now... he's about to hit Level 7. And yeah, Level 1 is tough. Generally, you'll have 5 Batches of Reagents if you've maxed out Intelligence (which I recommend for Bombers); six Batches if you take Alchemical Familiar (which I don't recommend. Not for a Bomber.)

The main thing at first Level is to take it slow with the Bombs. Stick with your Signatures for the greater resource efficiency. My two Signatures are Acid Flasks and Bottled Lightning. My usual loadout at first was 6 Acid Flasks, 3 Bottled Lightning (3 Batches), 2 Quicksilver Mutagens (1 Batch) and I left the last Batch alone for use with Quick Alchemy.

For the most part, that got me through the day, because I took Far Lobber as the Level 1 Feat, not Quick Bomber. I waited until 5th Level to take Quick Bomber (Halfling Ancestry Feat chain.)

If your player has Quick Bomber, I'll repeat what others have mentioned: Have them look at what they can do besides just throwing Bombs. Recall Knowledge is especially important. Throwing the right *kind* of Bomb is a big part of the fun (at least for me.)

I'd recommend against going with an Archetype, personally. The resources situation will get better with every level you reach, until you hit 7th and you never run out. Pick up a sling (they include one in the Alchemist Class Kit) or a crossbow. If you're willing to put up with the downsides, Quicksilver Mutagen is a good help with any ranged weapon, not just Bombs. (Personally,it's a mainstay. Deris walking around with a weapon is Deris walking around with a flask of Quicksilver ready to gulp it.)

Wow, so reading your post, I just realized that everyone in our group completely missed the fact that you get an extra bomb if you use advanced alchemy for your signature!

That's just one more irritating thing about this class: it has so many moving parts that it is easy to miss something important.

If I may ask, why did you pick those particular bombs as your signature?

I'm posting this for a player in my group, as they aren't a member of the boards.

They have made an alchemist character, and have discovered the issue of bombs. Specifically, the lack of meaningful actions an alchemist can take once they use up all of their bombs.

He went pretty crazy with the bombs, and now we're in the middle of a dungeon, and now he is stuck. He's only 1st level, so at this point there aren't a lot of options.

He is thinking about picking up an archetype when we level to add some diversity. he would like to avoid picking witch or wizard for roleplaying purposes; his character looks down upon magic and magic users and harps endlessly about the superiority of science.

Does anyone have any other ideas on what sort of archetype he could take, or available options for him when we reach level 2?

Thanks

King_Of_The_Crossroads wrote:

How would you build him if you had to start at level one?

Like this.

Here is the build link for "Floating Mountain." To view this build you need to open it on an android device with version 125+ Pathbuilder 2e installed.

Awesome!

Thanks for that. :)

NEW CHARACTER!

Qing “Floating Mountan” Dashan, Philosopher Martial Artist (LG male versatile human teacher monk 13)

“One can do anything, if taught the proper technique.”

Standing at a modest five and a half feet, what Qing lacks in imposing height, he makes up for in rotund girth. Despite his opulent physique, Qing is incredibly strong and agile. Through years of physical conditioning, he has managed to hide a great deal of dense muscle underneath his thin layer of fat.

Deceptively nimble and light on his feet, Qing long ago earned the epithet “Floating Mountain” for his logic-defying ability to make great leaps through the sky as though he were nearly lighter than air. Perhaps even more astounding is Qing’s total control over his musculature. He is not only able to flex any part of his body at will, but he can also distort his general shape well enough to fit into narrow spaces that would prove difficult even for thin people to squeeze through for short periods.

Tactics: As a monk you don't deal as much damage as your more martial-minded allies, but you do have several versatile support role options at your disposal. Therefore it is recommended that you use your great speed and great number of mobility options to be "Johny on the Spot" and position yourself where you are most needed each round.

If no one needs you to assist in a flank, to perform a combat maneuver--such as grapple or trip--to slow an enemy down, to deliver a much needed healing potion to a distant fallen ally (or to carry said ally out of harm's way), consider using simple hit and run tactics to Stride in, Flurry for two Strikes, then Stride out again ending your turn somewhere relatively safe (using your mobility options to navigate terrain in fun and unusual ways).

If necessary, your high AC (particularly with Crane Stance active) and decent Constitution can allow you to absorb a few blows, which can...

I love this character! So much so that I'm going to play something like it in an upcoming Extinction Curse game. To make things interesting, he's going to be an acrobat and tight rope walker.

Question: how would you build him if you had to start at level 1?

Illusory Object has served my party very well as a great debuff against multiple opponents to exact a kind of "action tax" against the AV creatures so far if that is of any help, not every GM runs illusions the same way though so it may be worth having a discussion with the GM on how they adjudicate their function.

I tend to avoid illusions, mainly because my DM and I often disagree with how effective they should be.

But I'll take it under advisement.

King_Of_The_Crossroads wrote:

Any advice for a solid build? I'm still new to 2e sorcerers, and am kind of clueless as to what feats and spells I should be picking.

And is it just me, or do the effects of most feats and spells feel rather minor? Especially when you look at monster stats and see creatures with saves in the 30's.

"Build" is a very different idea in PF2 than it is in other TTRPGs. In PF1, for instance, powerful build let you push up damage, accuracy, or save ceilings. In PF2, they're hard capped by your level. PF2 builds are very much about "my character has these options available," rather than "my character does this the best."

So in looking at a sorcerer build, many of your actual options are going to come more from your spell selection than your feats. That isn't to say that feat selection won't define your character, just that spells likely will be of greater importance.

All that said, here's a quick mock-up from myself. I'm currently running AV and have read the three books, but I will avoid spoiler-y answers.

1st level
This is all spell selection and Psychopomp gives you Heal and Disrupt Undead to begin with, which is great as they're high on my list of recommended spells.

Cantrips should be effects you want to use all the time. Things like Light and Detect Magic, but Forbidding Ward and Guidance are absolute musts, in my opinion. The effects may seem minor, but I will address that later.

Your first level spells should tend towards support with your group. If you're feeling blasty, grab Harm, but I have a feeling you'll get more mileage out of spells like Fear and Command to keep enemies down.

I don't know what your base ancestry is, but I recommend one that gives you access to a primal or arcane cantrip so that you can get something like Electric Arc for turns in which everything is going well and you don't need to act as support for your team. Don't take this to mean, "Turn into a turret spamming electric arc and nothing else," as I can...

Thanks! That's a lot of useful information. :)

King_Of_The_Crossroads wrote:

Any advice for a solid build? I'm still new to 2e sorcerers, and am kind of clueless as to what feats and spells I should be picking.

And is it just me, or do the effects of most feats and spells feel rather minor? Especially when you look at monster stats and see creatures with saves in the 30's.

A few pieces of advice from my experience with an Angelic Sorcerer:

- Try to get access to Electric Arc. At low level, it'll be your bread and butter spell.
- Dangerous Sorcery is a no-brainer. This is one of the few feats that directly improve your spell efficiency.
- Heal as a Signature spell is also a no-brainer. But I think you figured this one out.
- Searing Light is a great damage dealer against Fiends and Undeads. If you can get access to True Strike (humans can through Ancestry feats) it's even better.

I was considering being a Tengu precisely for the ability to cast electric arc. That and I like the ancestry feats.

Any advice for a solid build? I'm still new to 2e sorcerers, and am kind of clueless as to what feats and spells I should be picking.

And is it just me, or do the effects of most feats and spells feel rather minor? Especially when you look at monster stats and see creatures with saves in the 30's.

So it looks like we *might* be getting a 5th player, though I have no idea what they will be playing.

As a GM with a group of two monks, an alchemist, and a wizard, I have to report that monks have been fantastic tanks, just not in the traditional mindset of one. If your monk runs into melee, Trips someone, and then runs out while the rest of the party blasts away with ranged attacks and spells, that's some good tanking in my mind. Even when stuck in melee, they have the best AC and access to shields along with the highest Speed in the game.

THAT said, a monk could still go "Strength-Non-Mountain Stance" and end up being more of a skirmisher that isn't going to enjoy their AC. It's hard to say without really seeing the builds.

It's looking like the monk is going to be strength focused. He isn't sure if he'll go mountain or tiger, though.

I have no idea what the ranger will be doing.

While there are quite a few undead there are also lots of non undead encounters. Make sure you do not specialize against undead TOO much

Thanks for the heads up.

I wasn't planning on going to heavily against undead; the great part of the psychopomp bloodline is that a lot of the base features are already geared against undead, allowing me to branch out with spell choices.

Is that the ENTIRE party?

If so I suggest ditching the spellcaster idea, you NEED a (Capital T) "Tank" and badly, like... without getting into spoilers you're probably not going to make it to level 2 (Or later on if you DO survive you're going to hit a major roadbump from level 3 to 4) if you don't have more than one PC with above-average AC and HP unless you collectively decide to just run away from any of the opponents that are bigger than medium size during the first two-to-four game sessions. In the best case scenario, you're going to all get lucky and make it through by the skin of your teeth, more likely you'll have at least one player writing up a new character, or more likely the Ranger and Monk are going to be sacrificed so the rest of the party can flee.

As I've said, myself and my group are new to Pathfinder 2e, but are monks and rangers *that* squishy? It seems absurd to me that the system is so dependent on a particular class type that death is almost assured without it.

Hello all!

I will be participating in a game this Wednesday, and we are playing the Abomination Vaults AP. My DM hinted that undead are a big thing in this AP, so I decided to make a Psychopomp bloodline sorcerer, and am leaning into the Duskwalker ancestry for added flavor.

I am fairly new to Pathfinder 2e, and am unsure how I should built this character. What spells should I take, how should my stats be set up, etc. Should I stick with the sorcerer idea, or go with something else?

The rest of the party is an Orc ranger, a Kobold wizard, and a Leshy monk.

Thank you!

King_Of_The_Crossroads wrote:

lantzkev wrote:

Quote:

I never claimed it was, "lan" tzkev. :-/

I'm very confused by your choice of where to place quotation marks...

*shrug* I was confused your adding quotations to my name in the first place. It wasn't really needed in order to make whatever point you were attempting. I followed your example.

it was to make light of your "improvement" being in quotes. It's just odd to take a user name and put quotes in part of it, and that part doesn't even form a word. like if you had done "lantz" kev... it'd of at least made some sense.

Just trying to figure out why on earth you did that, glad to know it was something unimportant.

Lol, oops. I actually meant "lantz", but I guess I slipped up. My bad :p