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Ok, long story short is that I just found out I really did a stupid thing. I'm relatively new to PFS and this is my second character. After saving, and saving, to spend 8,000gp on a second enchantment on my +1 adamantine bastard sword I find that it's about the worst thing ever. I sit down all ready to slap some hurt with my newly enchanted sword and get... nothing. Nothing but a lot of snickers and "you did what?" sort of looks and "you noob". "Yup, he really is a Big DUMB Fighter."
So, I guess my question is, is there a way to change it? Some sort cost to get it removed. Is there a grace period for mistakes? Or is there no mechanic/options to correct mistakes? Otherwise I'm just going to toss it way and chuck the character.
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I'm curious what enchantment is so horrid, you need to chuck the character over? Not being sarcastic, I'm honestly wondering what it could be as I can't think of a single one that's that bad.
And the answer to your question is pretty much, no. All purchases should be marked on your chronicle when you make them.
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Well, could you please elaborate the issue? What was the "useless" enchantment?
I am pretty sure that any character that could afford a +2 (total) enchantment on an adamantine weapon won't be doing nothing.
That being said, the worst case is that you have a +1 adamantine longsword that was more expensive than normal. You could then save up about 2300gp and get another longsword (or other weapon). There are definitely things that will need adamantine (constructs, stuck doors, etc)...
Also, you could sell the sword for half, and buy a new weapon?
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Central & West
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There is currently no way to change a weapon or armor enchantment once it's been applied to the item. There is no sort of grade period for mistakes. At this point, you can sell your +1-and-bad-enchantment swords for half-price, and then go back to just the regular +1. I would say use the new enchantment (if possible) and then once you get to go straight to a better +2 equivalent sword, do that.
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Though as there is no support for this, and I most likely will be yelled at by someone..
If I was the coordinator and I truly believed you misunderstood the ability you added and it did not do what you thought it did, I would allow you to change it to an equivalent.
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Though as there is no support for this, and I most likely will be yelled at by someone..
If I was the coordinator and I truly believed you misunderstood the ability you added and it did not do what you thought it did, I would allow you to change it to an equivalent.
Well, now that you went first... that's reasonable.
-Matt
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Other have mentioned it, but selling it is the only option. Which at this point, I don't think that would be too bad and probably a better option than scrapping the character IF you like playing him. You would be out about 5k gold, which is even less than a raise dead. Most people will recover from a raise dead, no problem.
I would actually agree with Dragnmoon as well, ASSUMING the problem was a misunderstanding of the rules, not a "this sounds awesome" and then finding out in practice later that it's not that great.
Wow, thanks for the fast replies. The thing is not so much a misunderstanding of the rules. It is just not knowing of all the rules. And then finding out after the fact... finding out how bad it is the very first scenario when you take your first swing with the newly enchanted sword.
______________
So you walk into the Society Lodge and find the guy who does the enchanting. You grin as you plop down a large bag of your hard earned gold down and reverently hand over your prize sword and ask to put this enchantment on it.
The wizard takes a moment, looks at you and then just bursts out laughing and say's "Son, why don't you rethink that choice a moment and come back later when you got things figured out.... in fact, maybe you should ask Valeros. In fact I insist you tell him your idea.... BWahahahahaaaaa"
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Wow, thanks for the fast replies. The thing is not so much a misunderstanding of the rules. It is just not knowing of all the rules. And then finding out after the fact... finding out how bad it is the very first scenario when you take your first swing with the newly enchanted sword.
Again, not really saying what the actual enchantment is you've got such a problem with. You've got SOME kind of bonus to an adamantine sword. It's not totally worthless.
The latter part, spit balling ideas off of an experienced player before buying something can be a very good idea. They might be able to point out possible pitfalls in a purchase plan.
Seriously... I have to know what this enchant was.
SAVED!!!!!!!
Nebten, I was not at 27 fame! I had played up my last five scenarios and had received a "Butt Load" of gold in comparison to my level/fame.
WOOOO HOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
And NO, I am not going to say what I did... maybe later. After I recover a bit.... It was bad enough suffering through the weekend (we had a big weekend) with only being able to use the second enchantment TWICE - just two hits over four scenarios.
So, having being saved by all you OUTSTANDING folks.... I am going to just start a new thread to request suggestions on what enchantment to purchase.
Thanks all!
SAVED!!!!!!!
Nebten, I was not at 27 fame! I had played up my last five scenarios and had received a "Butt Load" of gold in comparison to my level/fame.
WOOOO HOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
And NO, I am not going to say what I did... maybe later. After I recover a bit.... It was bad enough suffering through the weekend (we had a big weekend) with only being able to use the second enchantment TWICE - just two hits over four scenarios.
So, having being saved by all you OUTSTANDING folks.... I am going to just start a new thread to request suggestions on what enchantment to purchase.
Thanks all!
You still played a session with this weapon enchantment which makes it yours to keep.
This also makes me happy the campaign rules are changing so people can't "play up my last five scenarios" and game the system.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I'm afraid I have to agree with Chalk Microbe.
If you had wanted to revise the weapon immediately after obtaining, that would be one thing, and I would bend the rules and allow that, exactly like your suggested dialogue.
But to take it out and use it for an encounter and then decide you don't like it ... you can sell the entire weapon back at half price and repurrchase it with a new enhancement.
Likewise, I wouldn't allow a PC to pick up ghost touch on a weapon, knowing they were going into a place with a lot of spectral undead, and then try to get the enhancement switched after that adventure was over.
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Yes. But what would you do if a player had purchased an item they could not purchase due to fame restrictions. Would you make the carry around the item but not use it until they acquired enough fame or would you retro the purchase. I am more inclined to retro the purchase whether the player likes the enchant or not and tell them to purchase their enchant when they have the appropriate amount of fame.
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The problem is in this situation, he should have never been able to buy the enhancement to begin with, so he has an illegal purchase on his character. He has to rectify that, and general practice has been to sell things like that back (if it hasn't been used up) at the purchase price to make the character legal again.
Why is playing up "gaming the system"? I've died playing up before on my first character. And in general I hate playing up. But my group needed a player in the party bad to make a good table so I agreed to play. It was thrilling and more than once I was down in the single digits, but we made it.
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Why is playing up "gaming the system"? I've died playing up before on my first character. And in general I hate playing up. But my group needed a player in the party bad to make a good table so I agreed to play. It was thrilling and more than once I was down in the single digits, but we made it.
It's not. Most of the time playing up is thrust upon you with no real choice in the matter. The rules say you play up and so you do. I think Chalk is referring to a very small minority that actively seek tables in which they can play up. This is in no way typical. Usually you can either play at table A or not play at all, especially when it is a player like yourself who only has 1 PFS character.
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SAVED!!!!!!!
Nebten, I was not at 27 fame! I had played up my last five scenarios and had received a "Butt Load" of gold in comparison to my level/fame.
WOOOO HOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
But now you say you have 34 fame, before rectifying this purchase, so the purchase would now be legally allowed. I wouldn't think you'd still be able to sell it back, even if it HAD been illegal at the time, but a mistake. Now after playing with it for awhile (at least long enough to get 7 fame), you can not retroactively sell it back at full value...
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I'm afraid I have to agree with Chalk Microbe.
If you had wanted to revise the weapon immediately after obtaining, that would be one thing, and I would bend the rules and allow that, exactly like your suggested dialogue.
But to take it out and use it for an encounter and then decide you don't like it ... you can sell the entire weapon back at half price and repurrchase it with a new enhancement.
Likewise, I wouldn't allow a PC to pick up ghost touch on a weapon, knowing they were going into a place with a lot of spectral undead, and then try to get the enhancement switched after that adventure was over.
So lets assume it was a legit mistake (I made this mistake when I was playing my first character up to get that first enchantment above +1. I thought I could do it at 23 Fame (8,000gp) because the cost of the actual purchase was only 6,000gp. But found out after I’d played a session with the weapon, that I was wrong. I needed 27 Fame. Now of course 27 Fame was only 1 more scenario.
Ryan Bolduan (then V-C of Minnesota, before I was V-L) let me play with the weapon without any costs, just I didn’t use the Dueling ability of the weapon I’d just purchased.
So, to rectify the situation, of a legitimate mistake, you are going to make me sell my weapon for 4,155gp, and repurchase it at 8,310gp once I get 27 Fame? Doesn’t losing almost a full raise dead seem a bit excessive to you for someone who made a legitimate mistake?
Sounds like this guy made a legitimate mistake too. Even though his recognition of such was only because he wanted to find out how to get rid of a weapon property he feels is worse than useless.
Chris, what if this was a legit mistake you found during a character audit? How would you have them rectify it?
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If the enchantment contributed almost nothing to the session I would just sell it back at 100%. However, if the enchantment saved the group from a TPK that would be a different matter.
If it was just a single session mistake, I'd be a lot more open minded on this situation, as noted above. It'd be an illegal purchase and just sell back at full price.
However, he's said he didn't have 27 fame when he purchased the upgrade, but in another thread he's stated his character is currently at 34 fame. He's gained at least 8 fame since the purchase if both of those statements are correct. That's a minimum of 2 full modules, or 4 full scenarios, at maximum prestige with this "mistake". And some of those would have been played when the purchase would have been a legal option. I'm no longer so open minded in such a situation, as it looks a lot less like a simple mistake than before to me.
Please do keep in mind that I REALLY do want to not only abide by the rules, but also learn and maybe even IMPROVE the rules. Just today I learn how important it is to look at your fame point BEFORE making a purchase. This is a completely new concept for me and I will bet you dimes to dollars I've made this mistake on my first PFS character. With many of my scenarios giving only 1 fame, it can take awhile to get them points built up.
A bit later I'm going to give my VC a call and get his ruling with some basic input from this thread.... or more likely have him take a look at it. If I have to "swallow" the mistake so be it. But it really sucks when you put a bit of your heart into making what you think is a good choice only to find out that not only did your completely FUBAR the purchase due to inadequate fame, you then picked a crappy effect - suffered through "bit" of humiliation at only being able to hit one thing twice all weekend and then having no real recourse to rectify the sitch......
And as to the time frame, I went to a con this weekend so I had just purchased the upgrade before the start of the first scenario this weekend. I had 22 fame and 20 exp at the time.
So who approves the purchase of items on the scenario sheets?
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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So lets assume it was a legit mistake (I made this mistake when I was playing my first character up to get that first enchantment above +1. I thought I could do it at 23 Fame (8,000gp) because the cost of the actual purchase was only 6,000gp. But found out after I’d played a session with the weapon, that I was wrong. I needed 27 Fame. Now of course 27 Fame was only 1 more scenario.
If this were Argen's case, I'd require him to bring his character into compliance, ret-conning the illegal purchase. That would turn out to be to his advantage.
Sounds like this guy made a legitimate mistake too. Even though his recognition of such was only because he wanted to find out how to get rid of a weapon property he feels is worse than useless.
Except that he's played with the character through at least 4 scenarios, leveling up at least once. At this point, it's a perfectly legal purchase he made too early. Le jeu sont fait.
I try very hard not to make these kinds of rulings about a player's situation based on whether I personally like the player or not. (Maybe that's the high school teacher training.) Argen has got some use out of this property of his weapon, a couple of times. Now, he wants to swap out and get a different property, for free if possible.
There's a mechanism for swapping out the weapon (selling for half, purchasing new) and a boon that would allow him to do so for free (Tier I Gen Con GM boon: rebuild a character).
I don't know of another legal option at this point.
(Remind me to tell you about the "monk / sorcerer / eldritch knight".)
So who approves the purchase of items on the scenario sheets?
The GM to whom you showed the Chronicle sheet and asked for a signature.
Keen
Price +1 bonus
Aura moderate transmutation; CL 10th; Weight —DESCRIPTION
This ability doubles the threat range of a weapon. Only piercing or slashing melee weapons can be keen. If you roll this special ability randomly for an inappropriate weapon, reroll. This benefit doesn't stack with any other effects that expand the threat range of a weapon (such as the keen edge spell or the Improved Critical feat).
There is a reason they put the bolded portion into the Keen enchantment section.
While having a Bastard Sword that crits on a 14-20 is cool, there is a reason its not possible(or is it?).
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There is a reason they put the bolded portion into the Keen enchantment section.While having a Bastard Sword that crits on a 14-20 is cool, there is a reason its not possible(or is it?).
In the original 3E rules, keen and improved critical stacked; I played a rogue in the D&D Open at GenCon one year who had a keen rapier and improved critical; he critted on 12-20. They figured out that cheese in 3.5, and changed the rule. :-)
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Mike, during the heydays of 3rd Edition, the development team was still figuring out a lot of things about critical hits.
By themselves, stiacking keen and Improved Critical are all right. But 3rd Edition also had a couple of ways to increase your weapon's critical multiplier. Threatening double damage on 12-20 isn't that big a deal. Threatening x4 damage on a 12-20 is.
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Complete aside re crit stacking: it wasn't quite as cheesy as it might seem. :P Sean Reynolds did the math in a terrific rant on his Web site some years back (ninja'd!), and having crit stacking was really the only way to have crit weapons and higher damage weapons do comparable damage over time. In PF, it's not quite such a nerf because of crit feats and other crit effects, but it really did have a significant effect in 3.5.
And I, too, am very curious about what the enchantment was. =P
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I feel that GM's/Coordinators have a right to fix errors made by their players that are either illegal or are made because the player did not understand the rules when making the choice. I think that just because Argen played multiple scenarios before understanding the mistake doesn't change the fact that he made a mistake and none of the GM's he played with afterword caught it either. Part of the character audit we sometimes do before playing is to catch these mistakes and try to remedy them so that the player can still have a fun experience (And not feel like a complete idiot every time they pull out their sword). Knowing everything I know, except the actual shaming mistake, I am still for retconning.
Argen: Talk to your VO and see what they think. Also, at this point you might as well share. We are giving all this great advice and getting nothing in return....was it Keen? :)
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Was it Keen? :)
I am betting not, since he was able to use it infrequently. If he had Improved Critical, then keen does nothing at all.
I have my money on disruptive on a blunt weapon not used against undead, or maybe bane against something like goblinoids that you don't see much by the time you're eigth level.
--+--
One other thought: there are mistakes that end in your character's death. A simple mistake ("You mean I couldn't draw my non-weapon item as part of that charge?*") can cost you 5 Prestige for a body recovery, 16 Prestige for a get this guy breathing again spell, plus two 4-Prestige restoration spells.
A mistake that costs you 4200 gold? You're gettin' off cheap.
*Start a new thread if you insist on arguing this; or just assume some other common mistake.
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Yep....that ones pretty useless. Although I have pointed out in the past that a scenario in which Lawful Good outsiders step in and put the society in it's place would be pretty awesome. It's bound to happen considering the massive amount of magical artifacts the society is collecting and it's obvious lack of moral fiber.
HEY! Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome!!!
No, it was not keen.
And at this point this thread is becoming somewhat notorious... I think a few Five Stars VC's and a gang of VL's are now deviously planning some sort of atonement ritual....
Eeepps!!!
LOL
In any case I do want to say that this was my first con and it was outstanding!! Met some way cool folks, saw some fascinating builds, took part in some great tactics, and learned that just because a fighter can jump, does not mean a fighter SHOULD jump.
