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In response to a question regarding whether it is ok to “enjoy video games that have magic in them,” Robertson warned that such games are part of the “occult” and urged the questioner to “flee from evil.” He said that is especially the case when it comes to Dungeons & Dragons, which has “literally destroyed people’s lives.”
Robertson is apparently confusing D&D with WoW -- the latter is a video game, and there are examples of people doing stuff like not sleeping or going to work or feeding their kids, because they got too into it.
The same Pat Robertson who claims to leg press 2000 pounds?
Yeah....Google it.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAHHAAHAHAAA!
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Robertson is apparently confusing D&D with WoW -- the latter is a video game, and there are examples of people doing stuff like not sleeping or going to work or feeding their kids, because they got too into it.
This could be true, but I don't think he means WoW though. I think he was just lumping any and all games that deal with what he believes to have "the appearance of evil" together... He has never liked D&D however, for the very reasons he stated in the clip.
Reasons that, even though I am a Christian, do not believe myself.
Chief Technical Officer
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Glad to see he has such an open mind.
Hey, he's 83 years old... why should he start now?
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I thought the 700 Club had gone off the air because all the people on it had died of old age and bitterness.
I guess hatred really does make you strong.
The 700 Club is alive and kicking ... not on the independent broadcast stations anymore, but lurking ... ever lurking ...
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Pat Robertson is about as relevant as a fur-lined teacup.
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I thought the 700 Club had gone off the air because all the people on it had died of old age and bitterness.
I guess hatred really does make you strong.
I know from first hand experience that some people can sustain themselves on nothing but sheer spite.
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There's actually a wikipedia page devoted to his controversies.
Honestly, I had to laugh seeing other headlines. My dad and my current Multimedia teacher grew up with OD&D, and they're just fine.
I thought the 700 Club had gone off the air because all the people on it had died of old age and bitterness.
When Pat (his real name is Marion, incidentally) sold the Family Channel to Fox, who later sold it to Disney, the contract required that they 1) always air the 700 Club and 2) always have Family in the network name. The deal did not forbid putting a disclaimer up before it airs Pat's crap, which I understand is now normal practice.
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Robertson is apparently confusing D&D with WoW -- the latter is a video game, and there are examples of people doing stuff like not sleeping or going to work or feeding their kids, because they got too into it.
I think he's talking about the Intellivision game. ;-)
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Two things about Pat Robertson.
1) It is scary how much his son looks/sounds like him.
2) Back in the late 80's, early 90's CBN's foreign news bureau was one of the best I saw (I knew about slavery and war in the Sudan in the 80's solely from their reporting.) They had some great interviews with people like George Foreman "Yes I do feel there should be a retirement age for boxing. I plan to retire at 65." Basically in the old format I'd watch the first half hour of news, (using the mute button when Ol' Pat would try to 'translate' the news) and then watch something else unless Robertson was on vacation. The other host, an older man who's name I can't remember, was actually charismatic.
Aside:
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I don't know, I think there's some validity to his claims, I mean, I myself have been on the brink of divorce and financial ruin many times due to my over-infatuation with role playing games. ;)
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"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
+1
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I'm going to sum my general feelings about him up in a quote that may or may not be from Gandhi.
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
It really is sad how few christians remember that the whole point is to try to be Christ-like. And whether or not He would pick up some dice and roll up a wizard, I dont know, but I am skeptical about him having a problem with some friends sitting down to play a game together and tell storeis.
Don't be surprised if some of these old witch hunts fire back up. These guys are getting pushed on the defensive and their knee-jerk has always been demonization (sp). RPG's have always been a safe target as our community is relatively small.
It also seems like anti-gaming rhetoric (especially on the video game side) never really loses momentum.
Heck, when i was a teen a few decades ago my church forbid me from being a guide for church camps specifically because i. Defended AD&D at their church.
People who become so engrossed in rpgs that it has a negative impact on their lives would have let a different hobby do the same thing is rpgs weren't available. It's a personal issue. Rpgs, like i said are just easy targets, even though there's no end of other hobbies that can be as involving; cars, shopping, etc.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I'm going to post this from a straight-forward, Christian (Roman Catholic) perspective. If you, yourself, have moved beyond religion and faith, then this post will make limited sense to you.
--+--
It's usually a good idea to listen to someone you disagree with. It forces you to examine your own position and see how it addresses his or her opposing claims.
Pat claims that anything with magic or fantasy in it is from the devil. I don't see how that's the case. Jesus himself tells parables of the fantastic (for instance Luke 16 includes the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man).
I do think that there are two things to watch for:
* role-playing game behavior bleeds over into other aspects of our life. You can poo-pooh that all you like, but that's why clinical psychologists have patients role-play situations. I'm not suggesting that role-playing an axe-wielding barbarian will make it more likely that you'll go after somebody with an axe, but I think that if you role-play a barbarian whose first response is to attack and kill anybody he disagrees with, abd that resposne is consistently rewarded, then you're more likely to confront people in real life whom you disagree with, as opposed to trying to seek compromise. And the obverse is true, too, of course.
So I would caution people who like to play games which reward consistenly anti-social or impious behavior.
* any activity has a kernel of goodness in it. In table-top roleplaying games, we find the gifts of social conviviality and fellowship. They're pleasant, engaging, and challenging.
But any activity can grow beyond its rightful place. One term for this is that it can become "disordered". People can get really involved in any activity until it takes up more of his or her life than it should, and starts muscling other things out. And because role-playing games are so engaging, it's easier to become addicted to them than to, say, schoolwork.
So, that's something to watch out for, too.
I don't know, I think there's some validity to his claims, I mean, I myself have been on the brink of divorce and financial ruin many times due to my over-infatuation with role playing games. ;)
Okay, just so everyone is aware, I was joking here. I have a very healthy and stable marriage, and haven't been on the brink of financial ruin since I was in college. :)
I'm sure there are people out there that might get too engrossed in a hobby (any hobby) and it might cause these things, but as Belazoar points out, that's a self-discipline issue, not an RPG issue.
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Why doesn't he go after people that should be condemned in the bible like payday lenders? That is mentioned several times yet I don't seem to think he does much about that.
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Mr. Robertson is what the Christian community refers to as an uberchristian. For context, we put Wesboro in the same category.
Prerequisites include the following:
Saying anyone who disagrees with you is the antichrist.
Hating the sinners, not the sin. This is a very key point. I don't hate murderers, for example, just their murder. I pity them.
Not doing any research on the subject and just going with urban legend. Cause, you know, those are tru factz.
Either A: Reading between the lines too much in the Bible. Or B: Taking a rigid, literal, hostile approach to it.
Seemingly forgetting that we follow the New Testament, not the Old. The Old is where you find that God said to stone homosexuals and such. The New is where you find we must be kind and show God's love to them. Herpaderp stoning is easier so we gonna do that.
A few other things...
He said in his Halloween video (paraphrasing) "We don't believe in haunted stuff or ghosts." Then what's the problem? There is no conflict of faith.
The Bible forbids magic as the real world sees it. Yes, Christian doctrine does believe in magic, believe it or not. But it states magic is basically making deals with demons for them to do things. So, like, making a rival sick. But not giving you fairy wings or something silly like that. So, Romantic (as in, fanciful) magic does not conflict either.
/christian
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I'm going to sum my general feelings about him up in a quote that may or may not be from Gandhi.
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
I read this as "judging all Christians by Pat Robertson." Please tell me you don't mean that.
This particular thread seems to violate a whole bunch of verboten topics on this forum, but specifically, religion and politics.
At a minimum, it should be in the off-topic discussion.
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It really is sad how few christians remember that the whole point is to try to be Christ-like. And whether or not He would pick up some dice and roll up a wizard, I dont know, but I am skeptical about him having a problem with some friends sitting down to play a game together and tell storeis.Jesus would definitely roll a halfling rogue.
Na...Tinker Gnome, he was a carpenter after all.
Jesus saves!
He takes half damage.
<wink>
Not if he's playing that aforementioned halfling rogue. Evasion!
maybe his char dies at the hands of a munchkin player or an evil GM and all about he is barking is because the feellings!!
Yawn.
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I'm concerned about another activity which can destroy lives.
It takes up much of the free time of the people over-involved with it. Sometimes to the exclusion of 'normal' activities.
It encourages people to spend more money than they could afford, by giving 'donations'.
It encourages prejudices and tells people that this prejudice is okay.
It encourages hate for your fellow man.
In small doses it may seem harmless, but taken to extremes it is extremely destructive.
It's adherents call it 'religion'.
Pat Robertson suffers from this.
Flee from Evil!
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What's Christlike? or Godlike? What we have at best is a semi-historical figure layered with story, legend, and myth from a wide variety of authors with different axes to grind.
Christians do not look at the stories of Jesus as such. We Christians believe Christ to be a real person, who lived a sinless life, died on the cross, and was then resurrected 3 days later...
We look to Christ to absolve us from all of our sins. We look to his perfection, and strive to live according to His two great commandments: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might." and "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
At least that is what the Bible tells us to do (and we all fall short of this mark). But some Christians seem to utterly forget this, which at best gives us all a bad name as Christians, and at worst makes others turn away from Christ entirely...
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What's Christlike? or Godlike? What we have at best is a semi-historical figure layered with story, legend, and myth from a wide variety of authors with different axes to grind.Christians do not look at the stories of Jesus as such. We Christians believe Christ to be a real person, who lived a sinless life, died on the cross, and was then resurrected 3 days later...
We look to Christ to absolve us from all of our sins. We look to his perfection, and strive to live according to His two great commandments: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might." and "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
At least that is what the Bible tells us to do (and we all fall short of this mark). But some Christians seem to utterly forget this, which at best gives us all a bad name as Christians, and at worst makes others turn away from Christ entirely...
I've never failed to remark how utterly different in attitude the Christ of the New Testament is compared to the stern, unforgiving, and downright petty Lord of the Old Testament. Origen in fact said that the God of the Old Testament, the God of Law was the antithetical enemy of the New Testament God of Love, the Messiah himself.
This did not go over well at the Council of Nice.
What you said however doesn't really address what I've said. The various Gospels and Letters of the New Testament, paint varying pictures of Jesus and God. Christ left nothing of his own work behind, no writings that are directly attributed to him. All we have, are the testaments of second-raters.
Don't forget the writings which were suppressed....er, I mean...not included in the bible.
True or not, the legendary figure (as opposed to any real historical figure) is quite heroic. The Sermon on the Mount is one of the finest philosophies ever written.
....I never understood his fascination with 'cheesemakers' though....
I'll take some good old fashioned Jack Chick over Robertson any day. Some one in my neighborhood used to give out his little graphic novels every Halloween.
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I'll take some good old fashioned Jack Chick over Robertson any day. Some one in my neighborhood used to give out his little graphic novels every Halloween.
I remember those from church camp that's where I learned DND was about summoning the devil. And rock and roll albums were blessed with animal and virgin sacrifice by the Church of Satan. Yeah fast forward 10 years and I started playing best friend at the time was the preachers kid. He wouldn't play without making sure it was cool with his dad so i let his dad borrow my books. Two weeks later his dad's only things to say where "I don't see a big deal with this." And "Are halflings anything like hobbits?"
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Let's avoid heaping vitriol on other people's deities, thanks.
"D&D destroys lives" makes it dangerous in the public's eyes. Dangerous = something the younger generations want to check out = more sales. I don't know how much of that would carry over to pathfinder. This is, of course, assuming he had any credibility, which I don't think he really does.
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The 2k pound leg press really made me lol.
It reminds me of this old guy I'd see at the gym..literally filled the leg press with 45s and then push it like 3 inches.
Nothing more annoying than the guys who say "ya I squat like 365" and then proceed to rack it up and do quarter squats. Go deep or get out, kids. /end gym rant.
I don't understand any of this.