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Maybe I'm missing something, but...
The Mad Dog Archetype is built around the concept of a barbarian who has an animal companion which he uses in combat.
Barbarians often RAGE in combat, and the Mad Dog does get the Rage ability.
But the Rage ability says: "While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration."
Handle Animal is a Charisma-based skill and I don't see anything anywhere which says a Mad Dog can use Handle Animal while raging. It just somehow doesn't seem right.
1. I know a lot of GMs don't make PCs use Handle Animal with their animal companions, but RAW purists exist and they do require the checks.
2. I know you can probably get around this by giving your animal companion an INT of 3, so you arguably don't need Handle Animal checks.
That aside, I was wondering if this was an error in the Archetype (something to errata?), or was it intended to work that way?
Unfortunately, I suspect the only way to answer this question is if the designer of the Archetype chimes in, or if the Paizo staff comments.
Me, personally, I'd let a Mad Dog make Handle Animal checks while raging, but only as to his/her animal companion, but that's just me.
Anyone out there see something I'm missing? Or can I attract the attention of someone who can comment authoritatively?
Thanks!
Set it to attack before raging.
Flank is passive, you don't need to keep setting it.
Defend is passive, you don't need to keep setting it. If something is attacking you, the critter will attack it.
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lc1y
You still need Handle Animal checks to control an animal companion with 3+ Intelligence, but it improves how the animal operates outside of following instructions.
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Thanks everyone. One of the great things about this board is how helpful everyone strives to be.
However, I'm not really asking how to get around the issue. For example, you could take the Coherent Rage Trait, and I'm sure there's other workarounds.
It just doesn't feel like you should have to find a workaround for something so basic to the archetype.
Of course, everyone's suggestions might help someone who's being run by a GM who insists on Handle Animal checks for Animal Companions, and who isn't willing to houserule the archetype to allow Handle Animal checks for your animal companion while raging, so have at it!
I'm really hoping the person who designed the archetype will see the thread and chime in as to whether something got overlooked or edited out, or whether they really intended a Mad Dog to be unable to control their animal companion while raging.
Thanks again!
That doesn't sound like a Rules Questions post >.> That sounds like an e-mail <.< But I suppose you left yourself open for ways that it still could have been legal. I just think most people will rule that it's okay (or not) and move on.
I'm ressurecting this thread (hululululu!) - as I think the issue needs errata. I've pressed FAQ on the first post, and would invite others to do the same.
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I'm ressurecting this thread (hululululu!) - as I think the issue needs errata. I've pressed FAQ on the first post, and would invite others to do the same.
I don't think it needs one. This issue is an inconvenience that you have different ways to cope with.
It's like the druid needing a feat to cast during wildshape.
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I'm ressurecting this thread (hululululu!) - as I think the issue needs errata. I've pressed FAQ on the first post, and would invite others to do the same.I don't think it needs one. This issue is an inconvenience that you have different ways to cope with.
It's like the druid needing a feat to cast during wildshape.
And indeed, said feat for Mad Dogs has now been printed in the Advanced Class Guide:
Skilled Rager
With practice, you’ve mastered your rage to allow yourself
more versatility.
Prerequisite: Rage class feature.
Benefit: Choose one Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skill. While you are raging, you can use this skill.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you do, it applies to a different skill.
I'm ressurecting this thread (hululululu!) - as I think the issue needs errata. I've pressed FAQ on the first post, and would invite others to do the same.I don't think it needs one. This issue is an inconvenience that you have different ways to cope with.
It's like the druid needing a feat to cast during wildshape.And indeed, said feat for Mad Dogs has now been printed in the Advanced Class Guide:
Skilled Rager
With practice, you’ve mastered your rage to allow yourself
more versatility.Prerequisite: Rage class feature.
Benefit: Choose one Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skill. While you are raging, you can use this skill.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you do, it applies to a different skill.
I'd rather take the trait that does the same, more or less. It was mentioned up-thread and is called coherent rage.
But Coherent Rage is not legal for PFS. The feat is (as far as I know) - and makes the Mad Dog much more viable for PFS.
They both change the rage class feature - so I don't think they can be stacked.
Nowhere in the handle animal skill does it say you need to perform a check to make them perform a trick, after you teach them it.
Yes, it does.
Handle an Animal
This task involves commanding an animal to perform a task or trick that it knows.
The DC for this is 10, by the way. If you want your animal to do something it is not trained to do you have to use:
Push an Animal
To push an animal means to get it to perform a task or trick that it doesn’t know but is physically capable of performing.
The DC for that is 25.
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Maybe I missed something when I read through the handle animal and animal companion rules, but I could swear that once you taught an animal a trick, you didn't need to use handle animal to get it to perform that trick. If you did need to perform check for your animal companion to perform a trick, what would be the point of having trained it?
I was always under the impression that I could point at someone, say attack, and my trained animal would leap into action.
Nowhere in the handle animal skill does it say you need to perform a check to make them perform a trick, after you teach them it.
The very first thing under the description of Handle Animal.
Handle an Animal: This task involves commanding an animal to perform a task or trick that it knows. If the animal is wounded or has taken any nonlethal damage or ability score damage, the DC increases by 2. If your check succeeds, the animal performs the task or trick on its next action.
DC 10 on the chart. Training a trick doesn't make it so you don't have to use handle animal, it just makes it much easier to get them to do it.
Here is a link to the PRD as well.
