Pile of Bodies. Prone and sharing a square.

[Saker]

Our group recently encountered this situation. One member was struck down to negative hit point and went helpless. I step on to his square and attacked. I then got one shotted to -1. The opponent moved over our bodies to an adjacent square and a goblin on top of us. The cleric then did a channel and we both became conscious.

Laying there I suppose I could attack from prone, but I prefer to get up. Here are my questions:

1 - If I just attack do I get the prone and squeezing penalties or just prone?
2 - If I stand, do we just share the spot or do we make a str vs str check to see who occupies the square? There is one open adjacent square.
3 - If I fail the str contest, do I remain prone? or can I 5ft to adjacent square?

We ended up doing #3 where I failed my strength contest with a goblin (humiliating) and moved to an adjacent square with my 5ft. The was a move to get up and a 5ft, so I was able to brain him with a standard freeing up the square for the other party member and taking the AoOs. If guess I do have another question:

4 - was the strength contest even necessary because I have movement left. I suppose if I wanted to force the goblin out of square.

[Kayerloth]

Complicated indeed, here's what I'd say

You must have a course of action(s) in mind which would result in you being the sole occupant of a square (either this one or an adjacent one). If you attack from prone and that attack is not one which forces the opponent from the square you will then be limited to either using Acrobatics to attempt to leave the square or crawling out of the square. You could not use a 5-foot step to leave. If you stand up as your first action (a move action) then you must use an attack which could force the foe from the square if successful (Grapple, Bull Rush or Overrun) or you must continue by moving from the square to a 'legal' space/square. Even if you only move 5 feet this is NOT a 5 foot step but a 'second' move action.

The only way I'd allow you to move from prone to another square while standing up (move action) and then attack (standard action - attack) is with a successful Acrobatics check. And if I had to come up with a DC it would likely be the foes CMD + 10 (+5 for leaving a threatened square and +5 more for standing up in the process) +/- additional drms for other foes threatening the space(s). And as far as I know I just made that up, there are no rules detailing the mods for doing that exact thing.

You could draw separate AoO's from standing up, from leaving a threatened square, failing the acrobatics check and or not having the appropriate feats when attempting one of the combat maneuvers. Failing the acrobatics check could leave you right where you started ... with a goblin grinning down at you getting ready to stabbity stab you with Trusty Rusty's sharp pointy end :D

Edit: Just realized ... yes a -4 to your CMB for attacking from prone and no, no additional penalty for being squeezed (I wouldn't consider you squeezed, particularly by the foe in your square, cozy maybe but not squeezed)

[Ciaran Barnes]

You have a goblin on top of you, and I assume you are medium? I would count you as Squeezing for the purpose of attacking., but I would also allow you to thrust the Goblin to an adjacent square as a standard action.

[Hendelbolaf]

I was under the impression that you could not share a square with any creature that is not helpless. So the moment a helpless creature becomes not helpless, whoever has the first opportunity to move out of that square MUST move out of that square.

So once you became conscious, whoever had the next action, either you or the goblin, would have to move. If it was you, then yes, you may incur attacks of opportunity.

I will have to check the rules, but that is how I thought it was supposed to be adjudicated.

[Komoda]

I would just count you as squeezing plus all other modifiers.

[Troubleshooter]

At the end of your turn, you are shunted to a legal space. The first creature to have a turn once the space becomes illegal is the creature to be shunted. The creature does not suffer additional penalties while occupying an illegal space unless the GM house-rules them in. The creature does not need to spend an action to be shunted unless the GM house-rules such a requirement in.

[anthonydido]

I just had a similar situation in the campaign I'm running. The paladin went down (negative HPs) and the bad guy jumped in his square to attack someone else. The cleric channeled and healed the Paladin to put him in the positives. On the spot, I had the Paladin do a bull rush attempt from prone in order to get up and occupy the square. After thinking about it, if this happens again I will likely treat it differently. I would say that you can stand up without provoking (at least from the guy in that square) because essentially you are too close. Kinda like being in the 5 foot range of a person with reach. I would then say that you could probably move to an open square also without provoking because you don't provoke unless you are leaving a threatened square. That would take 2 move actions so no attack that round. If the PC that got up really wanted that square then they would have to bull rush or maybe even a str vs str check (which sounded like a good idea) and if they failed I would put them in an unoccupied adjacent square.

[Kayerloth]

If you consider the character squeezed then is the goblin also squeezed? If not why not? Would you consider a character doing an Overrun to be squeezed if attacked at the moment they pass thru the square of their foe?

@Hendelbolaf - You pretty much have the right of it.

Quote:

Ending Your Movement: You can't end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.

Neither the PC nor the goblin has yet ended their movement in the same square while their foe was not, in fact, helpless. They ended up that way at the end of another PC's Action (standard action - channel energy). But this is why I was saying "You must have a course of action(s) in mind which would result in you being the sole occupant of a square"

:) Just sunk in ... is the other PC still in this square (waiting for their turn as well) or has their situation been resolved already? If not then I'd say Saker's character must take actions which end up with neither friend nor foe in his square.

And this from the CRB Special Movement Rules:

Quote:

Accidentally Ending Movement in an Illegal Space: Sometimes a character ends its movement while moving through a space where it's not allowed to stop. When that happens, put your miniature in the last legal position you occupied, or the closest legal position, if there's a legal position that's closer.

Might be simplest to unpile the scrum and move everyone to the nearest legal space in initiative order starting from the point at which everyone became "illegally" in the same space.

[Saker]

Ah, I think "ending" your move in an illegal square clears it up for me. So, I think standing and taking all the AoOs (-4 for prone) with perhaps a Total Defense to offset prone. I don't think squeezing is an issue since you can move past creatures normally without undo penalty. Once standing, I have not ended my movement and take a 5ft step. Leaving a difficult terrain square doesn't cost you extra. That would be the full action if done with Total Defense.

If I had no where to move, then things would get interesting. I would need to either acrobatics, bull rush or overrun my way out of there to get to legal spot before the end of my turn. But upon failure and a legal spot 10ft away, would I just pop there?

[Kayerloth]

Saker wrote:

Ah, I think "ending" your move in an illegal square clears it up for me. So, I think standing and taking all the AoOs (-4 for prone) with perhaps a Total Defense to offset prone. I don't think squeezing is an issue since you can move past creatures normally without undo penalty. Once standing, I have not ended my movement and take a 5ft step. Leaving a difficult terrain square doesn't cost you extra. That would be the full action if done with Total Defense.

If I had no where to move, then things would get interesting. I would need to either acrobatics, bull rush or overrun my way out of there to get to legal spot before the end of my turn. But upon failure and a legal spot 10ft away, would I just pop there?

Pretty much what the Accidentally Ending Movement in an Illegal Space seems to imply. Could end up 20+ feet away if it was a narrow hall full of combatants. It doesn't specifically say so but I'd also only consider it the nearest legal if it was a direct route you could take if there were no other creatures to consider ... that is move you 20ft down the hall vs 10ft the other side of a wall into a room which would require 50ft of movement to get there otherwise.