We are getting ready to have a power gamer campaign where we start at lvl 15 and are making characters that are as tough as possible.
I usually play Oracles and Clerics normally as the idea of being to cosmic power always appealed to me.
But in this game I am thinking of breaking away from my norm. I need to know how Monks, and/or Magus can hang with Wizards,Sorcerers and an Oracle at 20+ lvl?
If they would be the weak link, what would you suggest?
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I'm having trouble thinking of two classes further apart in power by level 15 than monks and wizards.
The magus could be useful. I would leave the monk at home unless the GM will go out of his way to help the monk out.
You could do something different yet still stay in familiar territory. Take one lvl of wolf scared oracle and side step secret, then make a 2H paladin of vengeance and enjoy the bite attack.
If you want to go monk, then zen archer is about as broken as it comes. Also a dawn flower dervish bard, or magus with a 2 lvl dip into monk MoMS for crane and snake styles is good.
Finally, an unarmed fighter/ MoMS with dragon style who twf with a nodachi and unarmed strike for TWF style that deals 1.5 str each attack can be pretty nifty.
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I can see a monk doing greatly at cap since every punch is 2d10. Combine that with an Agile AoMF and Boots of Speed or other way to get haste u have some nice melee damage. Monk of the 4 winds would be best for its Aspect of the Tiger ability to charge at 10x speed and perform a full attack with it. So with that in mind u could perform 9 2d10+dex attacks if u spend the ki on an extra attack.
Base weapon damage does not mean much at all. The static damage is where combat classes go if they want to do well. The agile AoMF will help with the static damage though.
9 attacks does not mean much on its own. They still have to bypass DR and they have to hit, and maybe avoid attacks of opportunities on the way in.
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Base weapon damage does not mean much at all. The static damage is where combat classes go if they want to do well. The agile AoMF will help with the static damage though.
9 attacks does not mean much on its own. They still have to bypass DR and they have to hit, and maybe avoid attacks of opportunities on the way in.
I agree with what u say which might i add is true for any melee but the base damage does mean a bit.
Other melee classes will not have trouble bypassing DR, or hitting against standard monsters. In a powergaming campaign the GM will be using tougher monsters most likely so the monk will be in more trouble than normal, but that won't affect the chance to bypass DR for the martial types, only their chance to hit to a small extent.
PS:We ran the monk against standard monsters at level 13 on these boards a few months ago. It did not go well for him against many of them, even if he was buffed. Things only get more difficult as the levels get higher.
With that(my last post) said I dont want to turn this into an anti-monk thread so I will leave it at that. The OP can do a search on monk threads and make his decisions based on arguments from both sides.
At level 10 I built a Tiefling Master of Many Styles Monk 2/Kensai-Bladebound Magus 8. I took Craft Wondrous Item when I could, as well as Weapon Finesse and Dervish Dance. I ended up with a 10th level character with an unbuffed AC of 34, which I think was pretty decent for the level. Now, I may be off as far as what I feel is powerful but it seemed pretty broken. I'm sure that continuing with Magus would just expand on that power.
Ooh, as tough as possible, I like the sound of that.
Monk/Paladin/Champion of Irori fits the bill for a character that has unlimited smites per day (against evil and chaotic), can't be hit (against evil and chaotic) and saves against everying (ditto). Also hits like a dump truck.
The build I had was here:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p7ss?Iroris-Champion-A-build-for-inclusion-in- the#1
But if you're starting at lvl 15, you can skip the level of cleric for the hospitaler paladin archetype, more bang for your buck.
Don't forget to start off as an aasimar for the tasty, tasty immortal spark/middle age combo (or heck buy the nacreous grey ioun stone and start off as venerable).
prototype00
Depends on how tough you wanna be.
A Dwarf Witchunter Archeype Inquisitor+Steel Soul+Glory of Old
Means you auto pass most saves.
Stalwart means any fort/will spell you make the save on HAS NO EFFECT.
That's pretty powerful.
Then the Usual Melee Awesomeness that Inquisitors have.
Magai have pretty decent saves as well, not as tough but have great attack power and more problem solving magic.
team game, not a competition. i think a 8 monk/master of many styles/quinong/ki mystic with the remaining level of fighter either two weapon, lorewarden , weapon master/ unarmed or close combatant, would be a lot of fun and damned effective and what she/he does.