However the occasional update could be nice, even if it's to say no news - look here's some painted mini's.
Right on!
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From thier facebook page:However the occasional update could be nice, even if it's to say no news - look here's some painted mini's.Right on!
We did get the container last week, however the resulting possible orders that could be shipped are so minimal we are waiting for the next two containers (that will show up together) before setting up the line. They are scheduled for the end of next week. Then, once we start shipping the last container should arrive while we are shipping what we can from the previous receiving. We are hoping to have everything out except maybe all of the Undertaker levels by the first of July give or take a day or two. All product is on the water now so keep you figures crossed that a ship does not sink!
posted Monday at 3:17pm
There's another entry saying that the Canada issues are fixed
"First, our Canadian customers.
During the run of our Kickstarter campaign, we promised that we'd get you your stuff without you being nailed with a bunch of customs fees. To that end, we've had to apply for non-resident importer status to Canada. This way, we absorb the cost of the customs fees, and you get local delivery of your pledge packages. Unfortunately, we're caught in a bureaucratic morass of red tape. We were led to believe that we would be finished with this part of the process in December 2012, but we've been there for months now. Happily, we've received word from our customs broker that we're very close to having our application finalized, and as soon as we have the all clear, you'll start receiving your things. We're terribly sorry for the delay, but this was the only way to do it without saddling you with the import fees.
tl;dr: We're stuck in red tape, but the end is near, and we start duty-free shipments to Canada soon."
Thanks Dungeon Crawler & Cpt_Kirstov, it'd be nice if they just popped that in the KS rather than hiding it on Facebook or even their own forums.
I know they don't want to spam backers with "no info", but once a fortnight/month would be nice. Especially since they could show off their products and it'd be some advertising.
I agree that Reaper could have communicated more. I've never disagreed with that.Huh?
When I made exactly this point you lambasted me with a 4 paragraph post.
I was disagreeing you that it was a standard business-customer transaction.
But hey, if you aren't interested in my viewpoint that has helped me have fairly realistic expectations of my kickstarter backings, feel free to ignore everything I say.
I haven't been surprised, but maybe you like surprises.
Edit: Here are some articles...
This one finds that 84% of projects deliver late. Relatively small sample size of the top 50 recent projects though.
U of Penn did a study of 471 and found 75% delivered late. With a trend that the more backers and money a project garnered, the later it delivered.
A blog post on Kickstarter, titled "Kickstarter is not a store".
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Don't get upset that you got punched in the face, because the other day I got kicked in the nuts.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I think another aspect to keep in mind is, Kickstarters fail. I'm not losing sleep on the delay on the minis, after all, if Reaper had burned down in the Texas wildfires, the money I invested would be gone. If we found out that an accountant had embezzled Reaper to death, same thing.
Could Reaper have communicated better? Yes. I get frequent updates from Dreamscarred. Are there delays? Yup. delay happens. Live and learn. IF this was something I was expecting within a certain time frame, I'd be more upset, but that's my own damn fault.
I just ordered some Heroes and Monsters goblins from Paizo, because I didn't see any WBG boosters in time for Origins. AKA, I needed them so I ordered them from a place where they already exist (I skimped on shipping, since in theory I don't need them until next Saturday).
It's not like Reaper spent my investment on another project entirely *coughNorthern Guncough*
It's not like Reaper spent my investment on another project entirely *coughNorthern Guncough*
But 25 new robots!
Excited!
I am in no hurry to get my Reaper delivery (Canadian here...so ill be like the last one to ever get theirs) I still have 3 out of the 5 learn to paint kits to get through, but a handful of Bones I bought for practice.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor
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I was disagreeing you that it was a standard business-customer transaction.
So you were ignoring the point I did make, and disagreed with a point I didn't make. Ok.
This one finds that 84% of projects deliver late. Relatively small sample size of the top 50 recent projects though.
Here's a thought. Go back and read my post which you disagreed with me originally on.
I've never complained about lateness.
Now go back and read most of the posts which you've replied to with comments like this and actually read them. Most people aren't complaining about the simple fact that it's late. Actually reading what people say is what makes something a conversation.
"Kickstarter is not a preorder system."
"Kickstarter is not Amazon"
Regardless of what you call the relationship, Reaper took people's money with the promise of future delivery of product. That's a customer relationship of some sort or another. As a customer who has prepaid for a product, there is an expectation of reasonable communication about delivery timing.
Being late is understandable. Communicating it terribly and in a mis-leading manner is far less so.
I bolded that first part to help highlight what I saw in your statement, which I saw as an underlying assumption to what followed.
I wasn't addressing the complaint directly, I was addressing the underlying assumption behind your complaint. The level of discourse with Reaper could be improved; however, people using KS need to calibrate their expectations as appropriate to KS instead of using the same expectations associated with much more traditional transactions.
Imagine riding a horse. If you're going to do nothing but fight the horse the whole time, you're going to have a bumpy ride and it's not going to be very pleasant. But if you learn how the horse moves and what is normal behavior for a horse, your ride will probably be much more enjoyable.
Kickstarter is not a store. They even made an official blog post about it, you can find the link in my previous post.
So using the "Kickstarter is not a store." philosophy; then we cannot give Reaper a pass because of the quantity of miniatures produced. Instead we would have to focus on how much they listened to the comments section during the KS, how many posts they have put up after. Updates showing the mini's WiP's, them being cast (maybe even the masters and casting process), the first ones being painted, communicating the problems in delivery.
In no way is this saying Reaper did terribly, in fact they did perfectly averagely.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor
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Here, I've broken it up for you so you can point to where you think I have it wrong.
"Reaper took people's money with the promise of future delivery of product."
Are you suggesting Reaper didn't take money and promise something in return? Because that is demonstrably false.
"That's a customer relationship of some sort or another."
According to Wikipedia: A customer (sometimes known as a client, buyer, or purchaser) is the recipient of a good, service, product, or idea, obtained from a seller, vendor, or supplier for a monetary or other valuable consideration.
Which bit of my underlying assumptions are you struggling with?
Imagine riding a horse. If you're going to do nothing but fight the horse the whole time, you're going to have a bumpy ride and it's not going to be very pleasant. But if you learn how the horse moves and what is normal behavior for a horse, your ride will probably be much more enjoyable.
Your horse ride analogy sounds a whole lot like pres man's punch in the face to me. "Please sir, hit me again".
I expected better than a punch in the face from Reaper, I backed them because I like the company and loved the concept. Because of the trust I had in them, I spent much more than I would have for a normal kickstarter and that is kicking me in the but. When a person or company you know and trust lets you down, its much more frustrating.
I guess I know better now.
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Could Reaper have communicated better? Yes. I get frequent updates from Dreamscarred. Are there delays? Yup. delay happens. Live and learn. IF this was something I was expecting within a certain time frame, I'd be more upset, but that's my own damn fault.
Agreed. Dreamscarred is fantastic with their updates, and while I'd love to have the mountain of books I pledged for show up today, the regular updates about production status keeps me satisfied that things are progressing well.
I think the problem that I have (and it appears others have) with the communication from Reaper, and the frustration I experience when someone says "But they updated on Facebook" or "They posted this on their forums" is that: I didn't pledge money via Facebook or the Reaper forums.
I pledged money via Kickstarter, and Kickstarter has a perfectly serviceable update and communication method.
I'm learning more about the current status of Bones from this thread, rather than via the Kickstarter updates.
That's a problem. It's great that they have their forum, it's great that they have Facebook.
The very first place an update regarding the delivery of Kickstarter backer rewards should be posted is Kickstarter. All other locations for status updates are irrelevant.
It's not like Reaper spent my investment on another project entirely *coughNorthern Guncough*
Or spent your money on stuff unrelated to the project goals *coughTerahcough*
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Here, I've broken it up for you so you can point to where you think I have it wrong.
"Reaper took people's money with the promise of future delivery of product."Are you suggesting Reaper didn't take money and promise something in return? Because that is demonstrably false.
The question is more what was promised. If you are still waiting for things to ship, then they did not not promise a shipping date for you. They promised that pledges that included only a vampire level pledge should be shipping at X time in the pledge levels at kickstarter. technically, they never in the entire 53,000 comments said that vampire+addons would have the same estimated shipping as vampire alone. And I'm pretty sure when the first new add-on was announced, they told us that adding add-ons could delay shipping (either in the update or the comments of the update)
I think that if you read the terms of service for kickstarter, technically, your pledge is not for the product, it is for the goal, and the company has chosen to give X product free to those you contribute $Y. It might even say that the rewards are considered free marketing materials and not purchases(that way they don't have to charge taxes, and can charge your credit card more than 90 days before shipping the marketing material, as you are not buying the product, and the shipping time requirement of credit card agreements for retailers do not apply). But I'm not sure on that point.
Like kickstarter said, its not a store, the two best things I can think of to liken it to is;
1) the PBS telecast (but then you only get existing product) and
2) a contribution to a political race (getting a pencil if you contribute $X and a lawn sign if you contribute $Y and a bumper sticker of you contribute $Z; AGAIN the product is made before you pledge)
3)Shark Tank - prolly the best comparison, if a investment they go into fails, they loose lotsa $ and all of the free samples they could get as part owners, if one that we pledge for fails we loose a little cash (comparatively) and free marketing material we would have gotten as a thank you.
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I pledged money via Kickstarter, and Kickstarter has a perfectly serviceable update and communication method.I'm learning more about the current status of Bones from this thread, rather than via the Kickstarter updates.
That's a problem. It's great that they have their forum, it's great that they have Facebook.
I get that - the two comments I posted above were responses to direct questions, and not announcements. They specifically said in the same thread they didn't make a kickstarter announcement when the last boat came in because it would have amounted to 'we're still waiting like we told you two weeks ago' there was no valid news to disseminate to us on shipping, once shipping starts up again, we should know.
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Agreed. Dreamscarred is fantastic with their updates, and while I'd love to have the mountain of books I pledged for show up today, the regular updates about production status keeps me satisfied that things are progressing well.I think the problem that I have (and it appears others have) with the communication from Reaper, and the frustration I experience when someone says "But they updated on Facebook" or "They posted this on their forums" is that: I didn't pledge money via Facebook or the Reaper forums.
I pledged money via Kickstarter, and Kickstarter has a perfectly serviceable update and communication method.
I'm learning more about the current status of Bones from this thread, rather than via the Kickstarter updates.
That's a problem. It's great that they have their forum, it's great that they have Facebook.
The very first place an update regarding the delivery of Kickstarter backer rewards should be posted is Kickstarter. All other locations for status updates are irrelevant.
So has Reaper started shipping again? I don't read that anywhere on fb, their forums, here or KS. Anything other than to say 'shipping has re-started!", at this point, is irrelevant as well. Its all anyone really needs to know. 'Oooo container 843 arrived! It had a box of goblins in it!' isn't something I care about. I just want to know when shipping resumes as the last update said everything was working towards making that happen.
And when it does I just bet it'll be posted on every place Reaper has a presence.
Last I heard, Reaper was waiting for the last containers to arrive, they are basically in a holding pattern right now. The number of pre-orders (yes they are pre-orders just deal with it) they could fulfill from the last shipment arrived was so small that they decide to just wait until the rest arrive to set up their sorting system again.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor
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I think that if you read the terms of service for kickstarter, technically, your pledge is not for the product, it is for the goal...
Maybe you should do a little research before repeating things you don't understand. Or at least read the Kickstarter terms of service or the FAQ.
The question is more what was promised.
No. The question is what was communicated and what options they've given people who are dealing with a months long delay.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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It's not like Reaper spent my investment on another project entirely *coughNorthern Guncough*Or spent your money on stuff unrelated to the project goals *coughTerahcough*
Sad thing is, I'd find change in the couch cushions for the Robotech minis Kickstarter... if it wasn't Palladium behind it. I didn't kickstart Northern Gun, but reading about it, I won't trust Palladium with a single dime unless I see the product in the store in front of me.
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So has Reaper started shipping again? I don't read that anywhere on fb, their forums, here or KS. Anything other than to say 'shipping has re-started!", at this point, is irrelevant as well. Its all anyone really needs to know. 'Oooo container 843 arrived! It had a box of goblins in it!' isn't something I care about. I just want to know when shipping resumes as the last update said everything was working towards making that happen.
And when it does I just bet it'll be posted on every place Reaper has a presence.
It might be irrelevant to you, but it's not irrelevant to me.
If a container arrived, and they felt that it was worth updating their website or Facebook, then they should have updated Kickstarter.
I'll reiterate: ANY and all updates should be posted on Kickstarter, FIRST, before posting anywhere else. Not their forums, not Facebook.
So has Reaper started shipping again? I don't read that anywhere on fb, their forums, here or KS. Anything other than to say 'shipping has re-started!", at this point, is irrelevant as well. Its all anyone really needs to know. 'Oooo container 843 arrived! It had a box of goblins in it!' isn't something I care about. I just want to know when shipping resumes as the last update said everything was working towards making that happen.
And when it does I just bet it'll be posted on every place Reaper has a presence.
It might be irrelevant to you, but it's not irrelevant to me.
If a container arrived, and they felt that it was worth updating their website or Facebook, then they should have updated Kickstarter.
I'll reiterate: ANY and all updates should be posted on Kickstarter, FIRST, before posting anywhere else. Not their forums, not Facebook.
I have to agree with this. Their communications have been really screwy throughout this whole process. Am I frustrated by the "delays"? Sure. But I'm patient and I'm not going to crucify them for that, but they need to be updating via KS, not posting in random places. They've been hammered about their communication (or lack thereof) over and over again, and they keep making the same boo-boo.
Nice to hear their able to move forward again. I am sure this has been heavy on their shoulders. I am sure they didn't want to have this delay.
Wow I got all three, 'the late triple-play'.
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It is confirmed that if you have Wyrmgear, you will have to, but the big 3 (kaladrax, nethyrmaul and Cthulu), have arrived.
So depending on your order.....
Yes, I, personally, am waiting on the last container, but with 4 Vampires and a total of 79 add-ons, I am not at all surprised.
Suddenly I'm slightly less upset that I didn't order Wyrmgear.
Nice to hear their able to move forward again. I am sure this has been heavy on their shoulders. I am sure they didn't want to have this delay.
Agreed. The update is appreciated.
Same! HUZZAH!
:-( No email.
Wonder why? I just had one vampire and a couple add-ons.
Oh well.
I just go the same email! Muahahah!
...I am never going to finish painting all these minis.
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Just for reference I have ordered :
Vampire
Kaladrax Reborn
C'thulhu
Dungeon Dressing
Forces of Nature (which are actually cheaper retail than on the KS)
Clockwork Dragon
Undead Giant
Fire it up!
Familiars
Haunts
I got some extras of ones I thought I may want to mod or make molds of like the Dungeon Dressing and Familiars.
I can't wait to see when the next email comes....School girl excitement is building....
I also got the "checking your address" email. If I'm lucky, it'll at least ship on my birthday. :)
Got my email today!!
Got my address confirmation email last night.
For reference, my order was:
Vampire x3
Figure Case x6
Mister Bones x5
Spider Centaurs x2
Jabberwock x1
C'thulhu x1
Starter Paint Set x2
Undead Paint Set x1
Starter Set 2 x2
IMEF Paint Set x1
Unfortunately, I have a feeling they are doing a mass e-mail to confirm everyones address.
But it's good, I can remind them to actually include my Sophies and stuff they forgot.
Unfortunately, I have a feeling they are doing a mass e-mail to confirm everyones address.
But it's good, I can remind them to actually include my Sophies and stuff they forgot.
They are doing it only if they are getting ready to ship out to you, assuming "you" are in the next block of people to be shipped to. My friend who got his in April, got his address confirmation email in April. It may be a large number of people getting the confirmation email, but that large number are still the next in line to be shipped to.
It is still going to a week or two before things really start moving. The last container isn't suppose to reach Reaper until Tuesday. They will then have to unload it and get into the sorting line. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't any real shipping happening this week.
My "please confirm your address" email came. One more step closer to miniature nervana. :-)
Eric...which email? The confirm address (which I think we all got) or your confirmation of shipment?!
