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Howdy yall.
I'm thinking about my next PFS character. Right now I'm running a pure damage-pump of an archer. He obliterates enemies, but doesn't have much flavor. So I want to start up another guy to alternate with, pure party support. For fun, I'd like to optimize for Knowledge (and whatever related abilities, e.g. gather information). I want to KNOW EVERYTHING!!! :)
As a secondary focus, I'm thinking buff / support (incl. battlefield control) / utility spells. (I'm waffling on how much I want to emphasize knowledge and how much I want to emphasize utility spells; feel free to push me towards one or the other.)
So ... Wizard or Bard (or something else I haven't thought of)? How would you build him?
Any thoughts appreciated. :)
Bardic knowledge gives the best bonuses to achieve this sort of thing.
Bards are best knowers. Wizards would be #2.
For Bard, it wouldn't hurt to get a high int bonus. Assuming you're using point buy, (PFS uses point buy, right? I've never done PFS) even starting at 13 int and boosting to 14 at level 4 would help without costing too much. More would help with knowledge skills, but might take away some from other stats a bard needs.
Otherwise, just put at least 4 skill ranks a level in your knowledge skills. It's hard to build a bard who doesn't do well at knowledge checks; even without any ranks at all, they are acceptable at it.
I don't know if this is PFS legal, but there's an alternate racial trait for humans that trades their 1st level bonus feat for skill focus, and gives another skill focus feat at 8th and 12th levels. Putting those in knowledge skills would make you a super knowledgey person. Not something I usually take unless starting at 7th level or higher though.
Spells:
Bards have less utility spells than wizards, but not so much less that they aren't fine utility casters. Also, if you put ranks in use magic device skill, you can purchase scrolls/wands of many spells to expand your versatility. Bards are just as good as wizards with buff spells. For battlefield controls, wizards are usually superior, but bards are pretty good at it because they can take some good illusion based control spells.
Bards are also much better with diplomacy for gather information checks than wizards.
Wizards are pretty good knowers as well though. Int is their primary stat so that means they can make knowledge strong builds without making as many tradeoffs as the bard does.
My vote is for mind chemist as well
Inquisitors get Monster Lore which adds Wis to knowledge rolls amongst other things.
You could make a spell focused Inquisitor that can identify everything but you'll not be as good of non-knowledge skills.
Still, it's worth considering.
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This was an archivist I played. (Had some 3pp, but I digress) It was a pretty fun character, and with Human feat going into Skill focus, Knowledge you can start with local, then maybe religion, and Arcana (based on common enemies faced)
I was intending to burn his feats on Whip Mastry, so once I got performance going I could do stuff like disarm and trip with a whip that threatens and deals lethal damage.
The issue is that he needs to ID a monster and pick a target for his alternative to Inspire Courage, but he boosts defenses nicely
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I'm interested in this as my PFS character in the planning stages will be a knowledge monkey. I'll be watching this thread for insights.
Personally I had planned to go human bard and put most, if not all, my ranks into knowledges. That makes for a bunch of languages too. Can anyone suggest some need to know languages for PFS?
If Loremaster is available, a high-intelligence wizard, going into Loremaster, possibly an Elf with the Breadth of Knowledge feat, and then just focus on buffing spells. That gets you a rather beefy knowledge check.
The Lore oracle's +20 bonus to Knowledge skills (Focused Trance) is hard to beat. Although the Mindchemist's ability and the Nature oracle's +10 to any skill check are pretty good, too.
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Suggestions and thoughts so far:
** Bard (perhaps Archivist)
** Wizard
** Cloistered Cleric
** Oracle of Lore
** Mindchemist Alchemist
** Inquisitor (starting from Monster Lore)
** Loremaster
** Breadth of Experience
Archivist Bard. I'm inclined against this option; Versatile Performance is a nice one to keep (cover the social skills for gather info with fewer skill points).
Loremaster. This fits pretty well with a lot of these options (but gosh those feat requirements!). Will keep in mind. [Added. Oh! I just found the following in the PFS Guide: "Loremaster: This prestige class's requirement of 'any three metamagic or item creation feats' changes to 'any three metamagic or Spell Focus feats'" (p. 23). That makes the Loremaster look more feasible.]
Level one oracle of lore with the trance revelation (+20 to Int-based checks) -- stacks with Bardic knowledge and Bardic Lore (we're already talking about never getting less than 40 on a knowledge check) -- and with versatile performance (which allows you to swap perform skills for certain other skills) you have more than enough skill points to cover everything.
Want it to be extra silly? Be a Dwarf or Gnome and take "Breadth of Knowledge" as a trait, giving you additional pluses to all INT based checks and allows you to use such skills untrained -- you can basically claim you have ALL profession skills... not as nice as all craft skills, but depending on your GM, this can be hugely rewarding.
I have a Gnome Oracle/Bard just like this and it's ABSURD what I can do. The trance ability BREAKS knowledge checks, and since craft checks are INT based, I can use trance to break those too. Linguistics? Broken. Knowledges, likewise a huge advantage out of combat, but in combat trance is a liability and takes time -- so you have to depend on your bard powers and Breadth of knowledge to know about monsters on the fly. Still... not so bad.
With the right versatile performances you you can get things like Fly, Handle Animal, and other skills at your level of perform... which is basically like getting huge piles of skill points for free.
I play my oracle with the blindness curse -- he basically buffs and needs to be protected in combat, but RULES out of combat on anything that needs doing.
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Want it to be extra silly? Be a Dwarf or Gnome and take "Breadth of Knowledge" as a trait, giving you additional pluses to all INT based checks and allows you to use such skills untrained -- you can basically claim you have ALL profession skills... not as nice as all craft skills, but depending on your GM, this can be hugely rewarding.
Do you mean the Breadth of Experience feat? If so, it's a feat not a trait and applies to Knowledge not all INT-based skills. But still great! :-)
Breadth of Experience
Although still young for your kind, you have a lifetime of knowledge and training.
Prerequisites: Dwarf, elf, or gnome; 100+ years old.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Knowledge and Profession skill checks, and can make checks with those skills untrained.
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Yup... Base bard with breadth of Experience and splash a lil Lore Warden Fighter (extra skill points/feats and combat expertise/maneuver bonuses) grab a whip and make all the: Knowledge checks, Social checks, Buffs like a boss, and 15ft reach for aid another with the helpful halfling trait Via Adopted (so your aid another is +4).
You wont really ever do damage per se, but everyone else in the game with you just got a 50% boost, and anything out of combat is yours.
That sounds like fun! I'm a little wary of CMB builds (can't trip a dragon, right?), but that may be prejudice born of lack of experience on my part.
Love the Whip+ Helpful Halfling suggestion. [Added. But you'd need Improved Whip Mastery to make this work. And then you only threaten natural reach + 5, not the full 15. Might be too much of a feat investment (Weapon Focus, Whip Mastery, Improved) and delay for me, but worth considering. Though still, I'm under the impression that CMB gets less and less useful with time. So all you'd be doing is setting up flanks and giving a single ally +4 AC or +4 to a single attack each round. Not terrible, I guess, but not so great I won't be looking for other options.]
Breadth of Experience
Although still young for your kind, you have a lifetime of knowledge and training.
Prerequisites: Dwarf, elf, or gnome; 100+ years old.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Knowledge and Profession skill checks, and can make checks with those skills untrained.
This feat delightful; it's how I made "Poll Prudelven, a/k/a The Top Chelf, a/k/a The Fattest Elf in Golarion", a level one Urban Druid with +13 to Profession: Chef.
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Follow-up. Looks like I got Aid Another wrong. It doesn't require that you threaten, only that you be able to make a melee attack against the opponent. Which only matters with the whip, I guess.
If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to ACagainst that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn.
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This feedback is all very helpful. You've given me some great ideas and I'm getting a much better lock on the sort of guy I want to build. Thanks, folks!
Currently, I'm experimenting with a melee support Bard build.
[Principles] Priority #1: Knowledge and Social skills. Priority #2: Buff & Utility spells and actions. NOT a priority: Dealing damage. [Class levels] Oracle of Lore 1 / Bard X. Maybe 1-2 levels of Lore Warden Fighter or Sacred Shield Paladin. [Combat Tactics] Super-high AC. Get close and support by flanking, aid another, spells & abilities.
This guy won't be dealing any damage, it looks like. I'd probably have gone with a ranged support Bard (maybe headed Arcane Archer) for that and for the keep the BBEG the hell away from me!, if it weren't for my other character being a pure-damage Archer. But this melee build is shaping up nicely.
I've run into a question though that keeps me from getting him all the way planned out. Currently I'm looking at equipping this guy with a shield in one hand and nothing in the other. The better to cast spells, use wands, etc. Would it be better to use Improved Shield Bash or Improved Unarmed Strike to make the few attack rolls I'll need to make?
I'm defaulting to Unarmed Strike, if only so I can use a buckler and pull out a bow when I absolutely have to. Anybody want to weigh in on one side or the other?
Oracle of Lore combined with Bard has a lot of advantages. Take Sidestep Secret revelation and you can use your CHA for Armor Class and Reflex Saves. Take Lore Keeper revelation and use your CHA for all Knowledge checks. Focused Trance revelation allows you to add +20 to INT based skills a number of times equal to CHA bonus. You can do all that with 1 level of Oracle and Extra Revelations feats.
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With a whip in one hand and nothing in the other you can constantly Aid Another and never attack. Ever. If you're threatened, get away or just cast defensively.
Is there a Vow of Pacifism somewhere? That would be fun.
Oh, wait,
... super high AC...
Well then, I would go Imp. Unarmed Strike as it's required for many style feats that you may or may not take later on. Then again, the picture of a wimpy nerd freaking out when a foe comes near and bashing it over the head with his shield while screaming hysterically is just golden.
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Oracle of Lore combined with Bard has a lot of advantages. Take Sidestep Secret revelation and you can use your CHA for Armor Class and Reflex Saves. Take Lore Keeper revelation and use your CHA for all Knowledge checks. Focused Trance revelation allows you to add +20 to INT based skills a number of times equal to CHA bonus. You can do all that with 1 level of Oracle and Extra Revelations feats.
Yep! Already planning for those three thanks to Choon pointing out the Extra Revelation feat. Incredibly useful! Now I can dump Dexterity and pump Charisma through the roof. Only thing Dex will be good for is initiative and Dex-based skills.
I *am* a little worried I've swung too far away from melee capability, though. What's the least damage capacity I can get away with in the 7-12 range ... ? I don't know, but I'm afraid I might find out the hard way if I'm not careful.
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With a whip in one hand and nothing in the other you can constantly Aid Another and never attack. Ever. If you're threatened, get away or just cast defensively.
Is there a Vow of Pacifism somewhere? That would be fun.Oh, wait,
... super high AC...Well then, I would go Imp. Unarmed Strike as it's required for many style feats that you may or may not take later on. Then again, the picture of a wimpy nerd freaking out when a foe comes near and bashing it over the head with his shield while screaming hysterically is just golden.
Hehe. Isn't it?
I'm leaning away from the whip for two reasons: (1) it provokes attacks of opportunity; (2) it doesn't threaten (so can't flank). Sure, you can get Weapon Focus (Whip), Whip Mastery, and Improved Whip Mastery to deal with that, but (i) that's three feats! and (ii) it'd be level 5-7 before all that would lock into place given the Base Attack Bonus prereqs.
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Priority #1: Knowledge and Social skills.
Priority #2: Buff & Utility spells and actions.
Bards can do both and not need to focus on it. The down side is you will think 6 + Human + Int mod + favored class = enough skill points. It is not. There are so many knowledge skills. You will need to pick what knowledge skills you want to focus on. The down side of the Lore Oracle is skill points. If 6per level is not enough how do you think your going to do it with 4? My current bard in PFSP 6 + 1 Human + 1 Int mod +1 Favored Class = 9 per level. And that is not enough skill points even with versatile performance. You don't have enough to max out knowledge skills. Along with all the other skills you want/need as a bard.
Total skill ranks at level 8 for my bard. Note I only have a 2 points in any of the knowledge skills. I did no build him for knowledge skills. This is to show how few skill ranks you really get as a bard. They do not go as far as most people think.
Acrobatics (Ranks 7)
Disable Device (Ranks 8) Vagabond Child (urban): Disable Device: class skill + Aram Zey's Focus (Level 2 bard spell) give trapfinding as a rogue of 1/2 your level. So yes can disable magic traps.
Knowledge Arcane, Planes, History, Nobility, Local, Religion
(Ranks 2 Each)
Linguistics (Ranks 8)
Perception (Ranks 8)
Stealth (Ranks 2)
UMD (Ranks 8)
Performance Oratory, Act (Ranks 8)
Archaeologist / Lore Warden is a nice combo for both knowledges and combat maneuvers. Grab yourself a whip and become an extremely knowledgable tackler. I see it as a Pathfinder version of Indiana Jones.
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@Calagnar. All true! I haven't started planning skill points yet, so I don't know how that'll limit me. But I'm pretty attached to Knowledge and Social as priorities, for concept. I won't be sneaking or disabling devices, at least, so I'll save some there.
Here's the current plan, to give everyone an idea what I'm working with.
Human, with the Focused Study ART
(1st) Oracle 1 (2nd) Bard 1 (3rd) Bard 2 (4th) Lore Warden Fighter 1 (5th) Lore Warden Fighter 2 (6th onward) Bard
Feats:
01 Extra Revelation (Sidestep Secret)
01 Skill Focus (some Performance) [Human]
03 Spellsong
04 Improved Shield Bash [Lore Warden]
05 Combat Expertise [Lore Warden]
05 Weapon Focus (Shield) [Lore Warden]
05 Dazzling Display (Shield)
07 Extra Revelation (Lore Keeper)
08 Skill Focus (some Performance) [Human]
09 Arcane Strike? Toughness? Lingering Performance?
11 Discordant Voice
Priority #1: Knowledge and Social skills.
Priority #2: Buff & Utility spells and actions.Bards can do both and not need to focus on it. The down side is you will think 6 + Human + Int mod + favored class = enough skill points. It is not. There are so many knowledge skills. You will need to pick what knowledge skills you want to focus on. The down side of the Lore Oracle is skill points. If 6per level is not enough how do you think your going to do it with 4? My current bard in PFSP 6 + 1 Human + 1 Int mod +1 Favored Class = 9 per level. And that is not enough skill points even with versatile performance. You don't have enough to max out knowledge skills. Along with all the other skills you want/need as a bard.
Total skill ranks at level 8 for my bard. Note I only have a 2 points in any of the knowledge skills. I did no build him for knowledge skills. This is to show how few skill ranks you really get as a bard. They do not go as far as most people think.
Acrobatics (Ranks 7)
Disable Device (Ranks 8) Vagabond Child (urban): Disable Device: class skill + Aram Zey's Focus (Level 2 bard spell) give trapfinding as a rogue of 1/2 your level. So yes can disable magic traps.
Knowledge Arcane, Planes, History, Nobility, Local, Religion
(Ranks 2 Each)Linguistics (Ranks 8)
Perception (Ranks 8)
Stealth (Ranks 2)
UMD (Ranks 8)
Performance Oratory, Act (Ranks 8)
1.) Why Stealth?
2.) Why History and Nobility?3.) Sort of why Linguistics? Or at least, why so MUCH Linguistics?
4.) Seems like you have a few too fewfew skill points. Should have 72 at 8th level and I only count 69.
Other than that, they go quite far enough. The Bard gets more bang for his buck than every other skill class, including the Rogue (Versatile Performance makes sure of that). No, he can't max out every skill ever, but I don't know of any other class that can either, and even if (IMO) yours are strangely allocated, you've got 6 (effectively 10) skills with max possible ranks in them, one with almost max, and 7 you've dabbled in. That's a hell of a lot of skills.
@calagar - You don't need to max out every knowledge at every level. At 4th level (1 Oracle/3 Bard) with Breadth of Experience, an 18 CHA and 1 rank in each knowledge skill, they're all +11. I'm also +11 in Sense Motive and Diplomacy (Versatile Performance: Oratory) and have my Comedy maxed (Bluff and Intimidate), and Perception is +12 (half-elf skill focus). I used the Oracle Favored class bonus for a hit point, and the half elf for extra rounds of performance, so I could actually have another skill maxed if I switched them to skill points, if you really have to have UMD. I personally don't use UMD as I feel by the time it becomes reliable I have other items so I don't need it.
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Why so much linguistics? 95% or more of all bard spells, and ability's are language dependent. If you can't speak there language you can't affect them.
70 Skill points or should be I spent 2 favored class bonus on 2 spells.
Why Stealth? This was my first PFSP character. Was not sure how much stealth would come in to play. And it has helped to have it even if it's only 2 points.
You're level 8 with 9 ranks per level. 9x8=72.
Edit: No, derp. I didn't understand your post at first. My fault.
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Update on the build, as I work on it slowly. Still not sure I want to go with a Bard, but I'm trying to make the best Bard on these lines that I can before I accept or reject it.
(1) Dropped the Fighter levels. As nice as those extra feats would be, I don't want to wait until 9th level to get my second Versatile Performance (7th level is a long enough wait!). Currently thinking one level Oracle of Lore and the rest in Bard.
(2) Thinking about skills. Looks like I'll have 129 skill points by 12th level with a 16 INT and all Favored Class bonuses to skill points. Wondering: Is Calagnar correct about extreme language-dependent dependence true? I'll want to know a bunch of languages and have ranks in Linguistics anyway, but it determines how many points I throw at it.
Why so much linguistics? 95% or more of all bard spells, and ability's are language dependent. If you can't speak there language you can't affect them.
Not 100%, no. That's only if you want to use the stuff like Charm Person.
You want to be a buffer, and things like Haste and Inspire Courage are in no way language dependent.
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I am running a Lorekeeper Dwarf Archivist Bard currently and I have a huge, ginormous amount of skill points and almost all skills are class skills for me. I multiclassed into Horizon Walker for a few levels to get my darkvision extended (terrain of choice was Underground).
I don't play society so I don't know if it is society legal but he has become fairly fun to play. I am always rolling for any checks and I always have a decent to good score.
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Not 100%, no. That's only if you want to use the stuff like Charm Person.
You want to be a buffer, and things like Haste and Inspire Courage are in no way language dependent.
I'm still have to show this to players around my area. So yes Inspire Courage is language dependent.
If a bardic performance has audible components, the targets must be able to hear the bard for the performance to have any effect, and such performances are language dependent.
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... Inspire Courage is language dependent.
If a bardic performance has audible components, the targets must be able to hear the bard for the performance to have any effect, and such performances are language dependent.
So no "Tongues" curse from my Oracle level, then ... unless I really want to mess with my fellow party members! ;-)
Tongues: In times of stress or unease, you speak in tongues. Pick one of the following languages: Abyssal, Aklo, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Ignan, Infernal, or Terran. Whenever you are in combat, you can only speak and understand the selected language.
In fact, it looks like Clouded Vision or Lame are my only really viable options.
Clouded Vision: Your eyes are obscured, making it difficult for you to see. You cannot see anything beyond 30 feet, but you can see as if you had darkvision. At 5th level, this distance increases to 60 feet. At 10th level, you gain blindsense out to a range of 30 feet. At 15th level, you gain blindsight out to a range of 15 feet.
Lame: One of your legs is permanently wounded, reducing your base land speed by 10 feet if your base speed is 30 feet or more. If your base speed is less than 30 feet, your speed is reduced by 5 feet. Your speed is never reduced due to encumbrance. At 5th level, you are immune to the fatigued condition (but not exhaustion). At 10th level, your speed is never reduced by armor. At 15th level, you are immune to the exhausted condition.
Not 100%, no. That's only if you want to use the stuff like Charm Person.
You want to be a buffer, and things like Haste and Inspire Courage are in no way language dependent.
I'm still have to show this to players around my area. So yes Inspire Courage is language dependent.
If a bardic performance has audible components, the targets must be able to hear the bard for the performance to have any effect, and such performances are language dependent.
If your party members don't speak Common you've got an issue.
Also Inspire Courage doesn't require audible components, just audible OR visual.
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@Bigdaddyjug. Thanks for the suggestion. I think I'll stick with Clouded Vision, though. Don't own the source for Legalistic and don't want to impede my wand / potion / scroll use with Haunted.
Clouded Vision, though, this fits my guy perfectly. Forces me into melee, is a general not-useful-in-combat feature. Plus darkvision! But it raises an interesting question. How does Clouded Vision affect bard performances with visual components?
Clouded Vision: Your eyes are obscured, making it difficult for you to see. You cannot see anything beyond 30 feet, but you can see as if you had darkvision. At 5th level, this distance increases to 60 feet. At 10th level, you gain blindsense out to a range of 30 feet. At 15th level, you gain blindsight out to a range of 15 feet.
If a bardic performance has a visual component, the targets must have line of sight to the bard for the performance to have any effect. A blind bard has a 50% chance to fail when attempting to use a bardic performance with a visual component. If he fails this check, the attempt still counts against his daily limit. Blind creatures are immune to bardic performances with visual components.
So imagine (1) I'm using a bardic performance with a visual component; (2) Ally A is 25 feet away (I can see him); (3) Ally B is 40 feet away (I can't see her). RAW, my performance must still affect Ally B, but this is perhaps in (at least a slight) tension with the blindness line...
Not a big problem, but an interesting tidbit.
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The target must have line of sight to the bard means they needd to be able to see you, so a bard's performance may not work on a clouded vision oracle who is more than 30 ft away. And you are not blind, so the 50% failure chance doesn't apply.
That's not the situation I have in mind. Of course that one would be unproblematic. Instead, what I have in mind is a case in which the Bard is the one afflicted with a Clouded Vision curse (via a level or two in Oracle). So Ally B can see the Bard, but the Bard can't see Ally B.
Clearly, the Bardic Performance will affect Ally A. And clearly by RAW, the Bardic Performance should affect Ally B: (i) because she has line of sight to the Bard (her vision is fine) and (ii) because the Bard is not blind—he just can't, in fact, see her.
A similar situation might be a Bard using a visual-component Bardic Performance when an ally in the party is invisible. Clearly, by the rules, the performance affects the unseen party (assuming line of sight). But the interpretive issue (is the Bard effectively "blind" with regard to the unseen party, and so deserving of a chance of failure to affect that particular person?) is a nice tidbit I wanted to point out.
N.B. This is all assuming a particular reason for the blind Bard's chance of failure—he can't do something like gesture with the appropriate drama towards a party he can't see. If you think about it differently (say, the ability to precisely calibrate his own gestures as he performs them,** or say, a simple balancing mechanic in the rules), it isn't very interesting at all.
[** This description, too, might run into some interesting problems. Say, a Bard without darkvision performing in the dark, surrounded by allies who do have darkvision. He can't see his allies and he can't see his own gestures, but they can all see him. — This all to say, it's obviously just a balancing mechanic! I just wanted to point these interesting cases out here in the thread about my Bard build, since I'll be dealing with the Clouded Vision curse.]
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You're confusing the wording of bardic performance. The only line of sight that matters is the target's to the bard. As long as the target is not blind and the bard does not have total concealment, the bardic performance will work.
It doesn't matter if the bard was completely blind (assuming he made his percentile roll), the effect still works as long as the target can see him.
I'm quite clear on this, thank you.
[...] clearly by RAW, the Bardic Performance should affect Ally B: (i) because she has line of sight to the Bard (her vision is fine) and (ii) because the Bard is not blind—he just can't, in fact, see her.[/b]
[...] Clearly, by the rules, the performance affects the unseen party (assuming line of sight) [...]
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Potential problem: casting spells in combat. I'd thought to get around having to cast defensively all the time via Spellsong (they don't see me cast!), but now I'm not sure that it will work. I'll be using Perform (Oratory) to conceal spells, but does the Perform check itself provoke?
This matters, of course, because it will change whether or not I pick up Combat Casting. (Really don't want to! I'm short on feats.)
Cases:
(1) Threatened, cast a spell
(2) Threatened, cast a spell on the defensive
(3) Threatened, cast a spell hidden with Spellsong
(4) Threatened, cast a spell on the defensive hidden with Spellsong
"Hidden with Spellsong" = successfully hidden. Enemy does not perceive that I'm casting, just that I'm Orating.
(1) Yes
(2) No
(3) Yes? Unclear. Casting a spell provokes, but speaking doesn't. But using a skill that takes 1 action "usually" provokes.
(4) No? Unclear. Not a problem if #3 does not provoke. But if #3 does provoke, then at first this one looks like it would. But could the "on the defensive" mechanism might transfer to the Perform check? Performing on the defensive! Why would this case ever come up? Say, trying to conceal from the enemy Wizard that I'm enchanting his minions (deny him a Spellcraft check to see what I'm doing).