I mean, Orc is just the first thing that pops into mind when you think "magical heritage" right? Right up there with dragons and fiends right? ugh.
Of course it just has to be the go to blaster thing to have. As a fan of blasters, it really bothers me that this bloodline exists because now you have to have this dumb crossblooded sorcerer dip with a silly bloodline that shouldn't even exist from an obscure source on your Wizard or your build is sub par. /Rant
I don't want to suggest anything with which you might be uncomfortable, but have you considered ... not playing one?
And for those of you complaining about the Humans' bloodline, it actually makes more sense than the Orc or Kobold bloodline. It's not that you have magic power because you're descended from human kings, it's that your ancestors were kings because they had magic power. Classic fantasy and myths are full of the long-lost sons and daughters of kings, and of the idea of "divine right to rule", that a true king really did have power not only over his subjects but over his country. An Imperious Sorcerer is just exhibiting the same force of will that his ancestor used to claim and maintain power.
So, err, only humans can be kings of their kind because of vast magical power, and not Kobolds or Orcs?
And for those of you complaining about the Humans' bloodline, it actually makes more sense than the Orc or Kobold bloodline. It's not that you have magic power because you're descended from human kings, it's that your ancestors were kings because they had magic power. Classic fantasy and myths are full of the long-lost sons and daughters of kings, and of the idea of "divine right to rule", that a true king really did have power not only over his subjects but over his country. An Imperious Sorcerer is just exhibiting the same force of will that his ancestor used to claim and maintain power.So, err, only humans can be kings of their kind because of vast magical power, and not Kobolds or Orcs?
Kobolds are dragonkin depending on your setting and resources. Was a real munckin race in 3.5 if I remember some things right.
Orcs are fully capable of throwing magic around and tapping into primal forces. They have some wierd archetypes like the blood god disciple and the Scarred Witch Doctor. Scarred Witch Doctor somehow cast from con!
Divine right to rule sounds more silly to me, but ymmv and whatnot.
I think crossblooded is a trap and the Orc bloodline looks cruddy to me. Why do you think it’s so good?
And dipping It? Even worse.
Lemmy is correct. Blasters are subpar, and losing a caster level is a bad idea.
I think crossblooded is a trap and the Orc bloodline looks cruddy to me. Why do you think it’s so good?
And dipping It? Even worse.
Lemmy is correct. Blasters are subpar, and losing a caster level is a bad idea.
I've had people suggest taking it via Eldritch Heritage as a Paladin, but that's it. (Which I thought was odd, because she's an Aasimar. Why would she have orc blood?)
I've had people suggest taking it via Eldritch Heritage as a Paladin, but that's it. (Which I thought was odd, because she's an Aasimar. Why would she have orc blood?)I think crossblooded is a trap and the Orc bloodline looks cruddy to me. Why do you think it’s so good?
And dipping It? Even worse.
Lemmy is correct. Blasters are subpar, and losing a caster level is a bad idea.
Well Aasimar are merely beings touched by another plane. In the golarion setting they still have a pair of humanoid parents if I remember right. Its not that odd for creatures to have a bit of another creatures bloodline in their lineage.
The alternative to get the strength boost is abyssal of course. Which I think sounds awesome for an Assimar, but opinions vary.
If a goblin or Ogre can be an aasimar, no reason an orc couldn't have had been in the bloodline at some point.
Also, I really like Orcs, so a bloodline for them is great for me. :)
Well, she's a PFS character, and by PFS ruling she has to be a Human Aasimar only. So I guess in a homebrew game an Orc Aasimar with the Orc bloodline makes sense.
Bloodline just means you have some of that in your bloodline.
So, Half-Orc+Human with Angelic blood = Human Aasimar with Orc blood
Or just be a human with a great great great great aunt who was a half orc. No limit on how old your bloodline has to be is there?
Not at all.
Bloodline just means you have some of that in your bloodline.
So, Half-Orc+Human with Angelic blood = Human Aasimar with Orc blood
Yeah, if the backstory was written to include all that. My issue was more that it made *no* sense for my concept, but that's just me. I would have bothered me way too much :P
I just wanna leave one thing here, the orc bloodline is not "I have some orc in me and now I'm magical" it's "I'm descended from one of the super powerful, fire wielding, Orc warlords of the past". It really isn't any more ridiculous than the Imperious Bloodline.
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I've had people suggest taking it via Eldritch Heritage as a Paladin, but that's it. (Which I thought was odd, because she's an Aasimar. Why would she have orc blood?)
From earlier in the thread:
Honestly, I usually use Bloodlines through the eldritch heritage feats but reflavor them to suit my characters better and the results are usually excellent both in role-play and mechanically.
For instance, I used the Orc Bloodline for a Paladin, but reflavored 'Touch of Rage' as 'Divine Fury', 'Strength of the Beast' as 'Strength of the Righteous' and 'Power of Giants' as 'Avatar of Justice'. I've also used the bloodline via eldritch heritage to compliment a Dragon Disciple/Dragon Sorcerer I created and all it did was reflect the additional potency of his draconic blood rather than suggest an infusion of orc. Ironically, I've never used it for its spell-casting benefits...
I think crossblooded is a trap and the Orc bloodline looks cruddy to me. Why do you think it’s so good?
And dipping It? Even worse.
Lemmy is correct. Blasters are subpar, and losing a caster level is a bad idea.
Because you're already focused on blasting. Regardless of its subpar nature, dropping one caster level (and at one level of Sorcerer, the -1 spell known per level is irrelevant, though the hit to Will still sucks) gets you +1 to damage on all spells and +2 damage to spells of a specific element. Combined with metamagic Feats and the Wizard only being one level behind on casting (assuming you didn't take Magical Knack), it's the best you can do for straight damage dealing.
Divine right to rule sounds more silly to me, but ymmv and whatnot.In a setting where the Gods can and DO make their opinions known, its even more plausible than our own historical use.
YMMV was my way of saying its different for everyone. I do like Imperious bloodline. Doesn't mean its not a little silly to me.
blasting isn't subpar if you build to be a blaster.
Straight wizards consider it subpar because if you don't build to be a blaster, it's really not viable...so it's subpar to the majority of casters.
Blasters tend to laugh, because they just swap their spells out, and perform perfectly well at other roles. But straight non-blasters will still suck at the blasting role.
==Aelryinth
Optimal FOR BLASTING being the key words.
I think a stacking increase to save DC is better, or the ability to swap the energy type for free, is arguably better for blasting than a couple more points of base damage. Getting around those nasty resistances and saving throws increases the chance that damage actually happens.
Okay, yeah, +1/die is good, but it's not the undisputed be-all and end-all, even for blaster builds. Plus the other bloodline abilities (strength, for example) don't do anything for a blaster build.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
+1/die is also multiplied by Empower. It stacks with other fixed damage bonuses.
yes, the ability to alter energy type is very nice. Agree wholeheartedly. that said, there are few creatures that are always resistant to any element you do happen to specialize in, if need be.
that said, if you can't do enough damage, having the right element is not going to mean squat, and you might as well pick another spell entirely.
Save or suck/die/lose is certainly another play style. I'm not disparaging that. But save mods already increase faster then most monster saves. And the flip side of blasting is that even if they save, they only take 100 damage, and are still easy prey for the rest of the DPR of the party.
An Energized, Maximized, Empowered Fire Snake cast by the Blaster Optimal Build at level 14 with Spell Perfection is a potentially using a 5th level slot if you have a Medium Meta rod of Empower. Base dmg is 20d6+40, pick your element. Modified, it's 160 +10d6+20, or 215 damage. At level 14, that's one HELL of a wallop to put on anything. And you can potentially Quicken a followup.
it's not 3.5, but it's still a very, very hard hit. Add in Dazing Spell for some save or suck fun, and you've got a build no rote caster can emulate...AoE, direct damage, AND save or suck. And he can still just swap out spells and play God Mage, Summoner, Stealther, Div expert, or what not as needed.
==Aelryinth
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So, err, only humans can be kings of their kind because of vast magical power, and not Kobolds or Orcs?
The Imperious Bloodline is only available to Human sorcerers. The Orc and Kobold Bloodlines have no such restriction.
If you're an Orc with the Orc Bloodline, then your magical power probably is the same "divine right to rule" that human kings call upon. If you're a Human or an Elf with the Orc or Kobold Bloodline...
The above, I believe only serves to point out that the imperious bloodline being human only is a stupid restriction.
The above, I believe only serves to point out that the imperious bloodline being human only is a stupid restriction.
Kobold is reserved for kobolds actually. And I agree, it is silly, but the racial restrictions do note they open up to others with GM's permission. Don't know why they reserved them in the first place, but oh well.
Well remember that a Half-Orc or Half-Elf can get the Imperious Bloodline.
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So, err, only humans can be kings of their kind because of vast magical power, and not Kobolds or Orcs?
The Imperious Bloodline is only available to Human sorcerers. The Orc and Kobold Bloodlines have no such restriction.
If you're an Orc with the Orc Bloodline, then your magical power probably is the same "divine right to rule" that human kings call upon. If you're a Human or an Elf with the Orc or Kobold Bloodline...
Then you're a human or elf with the heritage of orc kings.
People in Golarion interbreed like it's going out of style, if you'll recall. Especially humans since they apparently have an unwritten racial trait of "supernaturally fertile/genetically compatible".
Are you playing PFS?
If you aren't, re-fluf the "Orc" bloodline to absolutely anything else that you want.
You like the mechanics but hate the description, so just change the description.
Problem solved.
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I personally have fun minmaxing and it bothers me when poorly designed corner case concepts like the orc bloodline are so mechanically superior that I feel silly for not using them. Hence, this thread.
OK, I hope you feel happy now you have shared your feelings with the rest of us.
In my case, playing a cross-blooded Orc/Dragon (say) Sorcerer 1 / Evoker 19 would make me feel silly. Fortunately I've never played in a gaming group where my not doing so would have created an issue for other people.
Optimal FOR BLASTING being the key words.I think a stacking increase to save DC is better, or the ability to swap the energy type for free, is arguably better for blasting than a couple more points of base damage. Getting around those nasty resistances and saving throws increases the chance that damage actually happens.
Okay, yeah, +1/die is good, but it's not the undisputed be-all and end-all, even for blaster builds. Plus the other bloodline abilities (strength, for example) don't do anything for a blaster build.
Uh, you can swap the energy type, you go crossblooded sorcerer 1/admixture evoker 19. and it's +2 per level (crossblooded, remember?), plus the damage bonus from evoker. Where are you getting the scaling bonus to DC from? arcane bloodline? Because that doesn't kick in until fairly late.
I personally have fun minmaxing and it bothers me when poorly designed corner case concepts like the orc bloodline are so mechanically superior that I feel silly for not using them. Hence, this thread.OK, I hope you feel happy now you have shared your feelings with the rest of us.
In my case, playing a cross-blooded Orc/Dragon (say) Sorcerer 1 / Evoker 19 would make me feel silly. Fortunately I've never played in a gaming group where my not doing so would have created an issue for other people.
I would feel silly too, that's why I resent it. I also feel silly for making PCs that are not as effective as they could be at their chosen role.
Other sorcs, like the fey, get stacking bonuses to DC. Admixture can swap energy types freely, which is why you use him.
that's what he's referring to.
And the fact is, withotu the base damage getting up there, it doesn't matter if they can't really make the save, because you aren't going to be able to do the finishing job you want to.
==Aelryinth
I think it would be nice if evokers got the full +1 per die to all targets from their school power, instead of the half level on one target. Would that really be so crazy?
I think it would be nice if evokers got the full +1 per die to all targets from their school power, instead of the half level on one target. Would that really be so crazy?
No it wouldn't be crazy. it wouldn't even be enough in my opinion, but it would be a start. What's crazy is that is that fireball still deals the same damage it did in second edition D&D, while hit points have massively inflated. Yet designers don't feel the need to correct this.
Fireball (for example) should be a second level spell at most as it stands in Pathfinder, and even then it's probably less useful than invisibility.