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Sword saint question

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about the sword saint Iaijutsu Strike

can it be done as a charge at lvl 10?

thx

no...its still a standard action at that point

Charge is an action of its own that takes a full round and doesn't allow things like vital strike. So I don't think so.

darn its a pity, i always pictured a iaijutsu strike when 2 samurai charge in to each other and draw the blades at the same time... why paizo? why didnt u made this? i would be cooler then the "Roaring Iaijutsu" and it would resemble much more the fantasy about the iaijutsu!!

anyway thx for the answer

If its for a homegame feel free to rule it that way. Thats exactly how I see samurai myself, so i don't see why its not...

Note that if you're looking for a classic 'iaijutsu duel' from samurai movies, that's going to pretty much require a custom mechanic.

Roll iniative, come at eachother and use Iajutsu, first in initative strikes, second uses iajutsu if he lives and if he kills the foe you have the classic scene where they pass eachother and you watch the silhouettes and they both kneel the ground injured, and one falls.

A custom mechanic might be cooler though, just pointing out you can totally put it off with Iajutsu strike.

yeah i know but i dont like to change the rules :P since im not very good at balancing, and if i start to break the rules/change the mechanics all the other players will start to change too, and i didnt want that... :(

^That. I honestly dislike what Paizo did with iaijitsu, but meh. If I want a samurai I'll just make it myself with other mechanics.

yeah :P something like rurouni kenshin charging :P

3.5 had something similar didn't it? Iajutsu is just the art of drawing your blade and striking at the same time if I remember right. Its cool, but its not exactly effective. Turning it into a full combat thing was wierd I think.

My personal method goes something like this:

Duel: A Duel is a full-round action that does not provoke an Attack of Opportunity. You and your target must stand no further apart than your movement speed, and both parties must willingly participate.

Make a Bluff or Intimidate check, a Sense Motive check, and all of your attack rolls and record the results of the latter. On any round in which your Sense Motive check exceeds your opponent's Bluff or Intimidate check, you learn the results of their attacks, but do not apply the damage at this time.

After this, you can choose to end the duel. Both characters roll an initiative check, and immediately move to meet in the mid-point of their current location, This special, out-of-turn movement never provokes an AoO. Whoever wins initiative deals their damage first. If this is enough to kill the opponent, they don't recieve the damage dealt.

(This could probably stand to be tweaked further.)
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yeah the 3.5 version was petty weak one, this version is better, but i think, the 3.0 oriental adventure version was very good
MrSin wrote:
3.5 had something similar didn't it? Iajutsu is just the art of drawing your blade and striking at the same time if I remember right. Its cool, but its not exactly effective. Turning it into a full combat thing was wierd I think.

Iaijutsu dueling is almost entirely narrative contrivance - any mechanic around it is going to violate rules of common sense in favor of playing to the trope.

^ humm yeah since u cant charge at the same time, thats why i said the oriental adventure version was a very good atempt, pity it doesnt has the charging version either

ps: oriental adventures: page 81
Chris Kenney wrote:
Iaijutsu dueling is almost entirely narrative contrivance - any mechanic around it is going to violate rules of common sense in favor of playing to the trope.

I'd rather play the trope and still be viable and amazing. I never asked for common sense anyway.

I'm pretty sure there's a whole school of fighting built around Iaijutsu, but I think it's more about quickdrawing your sword in front of a guy and cutting open a motherf*#&er while he's not expecting it than anything else.

Honestly, considering the whole mechanic in 3.X was completely useless outside of a duel(they had to be flatfooted), I honestly prefer the Paizo version by far since it's completely independent of whether or not you win initiative.

Also, since you can only do it once a challenge, you aren't forced to lose full attacks every turn for a gimmick. Plus the Samurai challenge bonus to damage is better by far anyways.

its not about the dmg its about the style :P
Rynjin wrote:
I'm pretty sure there's a whole school of fighting built around Iaijutsu, but I think it's more about quickdrawing your sword in front of a guy and cutting open a m###~#!@++*& while he's not expecting it than anything else.

Now that you describe it this way... Yeah, that sounds about right. It is about going from unarmed to armed, and striking in the process. More like a sneak attack than a power attack.

The mechanics of Iaijutsu Strike could probably be reworked completely to be something like a sneak attack that you get if your first attack involves drawing your sword against your challenge target, and that would be more accurate to the real world iaijutsu techniques.

Iaijutsu didn't involve just one swing, either, so there is precedent for allowing regular attacks after the initial strike. I believe one of the basic forms that I've read about went as follows (it's been a few years):
Draw and strike in the same movement.
Get your second hand on the hilt.
Cut from upper right to lower left.
Cut from middle left to middle right.
Go into your stance of choice (some more defensive or offensive than others).

Check out the wave strike feat ... its similar to what you want and can be used on a charge.

Edit: especially if you have a few levels in rogue or ninja

The main thing I dislike about the Paizo version is that it's a full-round action. The point of iaijitsu is drawing and striking extremely fast... So why does it take longer to do that than a normal attack?

well loup i understand the full-round stuff as required, if u notice most of those classic duels it takes them lots of time concentrating looking at each other.
gourry187 wrote:

Check out the wave strike feat ... its similar to what you want and can be used on a charge.

Edit: especially if you have a few levels in rogue or ninja

I wish I'd seen that feat before I made my current character. I definitely would have gone ninja instead of Sword Saint if I'd known that I could get the same effect plus sneak attack. Good thing to know going forward.

You can even use this for the first attack of a full-round or on a charge. As far as I'm concerned, that's just completely better than what the Sword Saint offers.

humm maybe something like a ninja samurai?

The whole idea behind Iaido is that, with the sword starting in the sheath, your intent towards offense or defense is unknown to your opponent. In traditional battlefield bujutsu, it's expected that your weapon will already be drawn and at the ready. In that position, it's clear from your stance whether you're going to be attacking or defending. With Iaijutu, on the other hand, you hide your intentions by beginning with the sword sheathed and your strike combines the drawing, traditionally two slashes, cleaning the blood off, then re-sheathing; in one smooth, fluid motion. It's a style meant for every-day life like having to defend yourself in the street or fighting a duel rather than open battlefield combat and would often be practiced in addition to bujutsu. So the idea of combining it with a Charge, which is an obviously offensive maneuver, is contrary to the philosophy and purpose of Iaido. The idea of two Iaidoka rushing across a field at each other and striking in a flash is a matter of cinematic flair, not reality.
Kazaan wrote:
The idea of two Iaidoka rushing across a field at each other and striking in a flash is a matter of cinematic flair, not reality.

Thank you, that was basically the point I was trying to make earlier. Some people are going to want that for their games, and a system that arrives there is pretty much going to ignore aspects of reality in favor of...well, you said it, cinematic storytelling.

well kazaan on a certain way i understand wat u said, but on the other... this is a fantasy game right? :P
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