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During last weekend game i was hit right in the face by how wrong i was reading dispel magic.
From what i understand "now" the way it really work is 1D20 + my caster level (9 in this case) VS DC 11 + caster level.
So if i target a level 12 wizard all his active buff will have a DC23 unless he was targeted by someone else's buff.
Am i correct?
If that said wizard buffed himself with armor (DC23), sheild (DC23), blurr (DC23), haste (DC23) and Stoneskin (DC23).
How do i work dispel magic since they all are of the same caster level?
Roll really high. It shouldn't be easy to strip someone of their powers or it'd be easy for the GM to do the same to you. What goes around comes around.
Note also, that you can only dispel one single spell with each casting of dispel magic. To dispel more than one spell at the same time, you will need to cast greater dispel magic.
When casting dispel magic, you can either target one specific spell that you know of, or target a creature, in which case you might dispel the spell with the highest caster level affecting that creature. If more than one spell all have the same highest caster level, the spell affected is randomly determined.
From what i understand "now" the way it really work is 1D20 + my caster level (9 in this case) VS DC 11 + caster level.
For a Targeted Dispel without a specific spell selected, yes. DC = 11 + Caster Level.
If you target a specific spell (Say, you really want that blur spell gone, but you don't care about the rest), the DC of the dispel check is the DC of the targeted spell itself. DC = 10 + Spell Level + Casting Ability Score Modifier.
So if that level 12 wizard has 22 intelligence, and no relevant feats like spell focus, the general targeted dispel DC would be 23, but the specific DC would be:
mage armor or shield DC 17
blur DC 18
haste DC 19
or stoneskin DC 20.
You must name the specific spell effect to be targeted in this way. See the 5th paragraph of dispel magic.
How do i work dispel magic since they all are of the same caster level?
Table variation. Some people roll randomly to find out which one is affected, some people start with the highest spell level (and random if there's multiple), some GMs just choose, some GMs let the players choose. The rules don't really say how to handle it.
For a Targeted Dispel without a specific spell selected, yes. DC = 11 + Caster Level.
If you target a specific spell (Say, you really want that blur spell gone, but you don't care about the rest), the DC of the dispel check is the DC of the targeted spell itself. DC = 10 + Spell Level + Casting Ability Score Modifier.
I don't think your second statement is correct. When the text for dispel magic says
You can also use a targeted dispel to specifically end one spell affecting the target or one spell affecting an area (such as a wall of fire). You must name the specific spell effect to be targeted in this way. If your caster level check is equal to or higher than the DC of that spell, it ends. No other spells or effects on the target are dispelled if your check is not high enough to end the targeted effect.
I think, "the DC of that spell" refers to the DC defined before in the spell description which is 11 + caster level. Your implication to use the DC normally used to resist a spell would mean that quite a lot of spells, especially all personal spells, could not be dispelled at all, since they do not allow a saving throw and thus do not have this kind of DC. I'm quite sure that this is not how it is intended to work.
I have to admit we're well through three AP's and I've seen Dispel Magic used a grand total of maybe 3-4 times.
Combining the huge number of spells it doesn't work on, having to make a roll that's usually no better than 50/50 and frequently worse, and that your caster's doing nothing else that round makes it a very ineffective way to try to do anything other than counterspell.
Greater Dispel Magic, on the other hand, is a nice way to try to blow away someone's buffs without needing a 9th level spell (Mage's Disjunction).
EDIT: Oooh, Deadmoon ninja'ed me without my even knowing it. The ONE in-combat Dispel Magic that was effective and incredibly useful was to get rid of Black Tentacles. Freed up all the fighters to deal with the caster. Nasty (for the caster).
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Your implication to use the DC normally used to resist a spell would mean that quite a lot of spells, especially all personal spells, could not be dispelled at all, since they do not allow a saving throw and thus do not have this kind of DC.
The spell always has a DC, it's just not generally used if the spell doesn't allow a save.
"The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a wizard's spell is 10 + the spell level + the wizard's Intelligence modifier."
So the 22-int wizard (barring relevant feats/abilities) would have a DC of 17 for all 1st-level spells, including shield and magic missile.
You won't always be able to name a specific spell effect. Being able to name a specific spell effect (in theory because you made your Knowledge (arcana) check to identify a spell effect) requires more skill, and therefore you get rewarded by being more skilled by being able to use your dispel magic against what's probably a lower DC.
Think of the targeting a specific spell effect as "taking careful aim" with dispel magic, I guess.
I wouldn't say it's useless, though I rarely use it myself. The problem with it, is it's often used re-actively, at which point you are already 1 step behind your opponent and needing to catch up. Sometimes though, you really need it. It's a good thing to have in scrolls or a wand.
It can also be pretty useful when used proactively to remove an enemies crucial buff, disable an important magic item, or take out an enemies fly spell.
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I wouldn't say it's useless, though I rarely use it myself. The problem with it, is it's often used re-actively, at which point you are already 1 step behind your opponent and needing to catch up. Sometimes though, you really need it. It's a good thing to have in scrolls or a wand.
It can also be pretty useful when used proactively to remove an enemies crucial buff, disable an important magic item, or take out an enemies fly spell.
The trouble with dispel in wands and scrolls is you need them to be CL appropriate for what you are fighting for it to be useful in all honesty. That makes it kinda a bad choice for scrolls or wands...now staffs on the other hand.
The trouble with dispel in wands and scrolls is you need them to be CL appropriate for what you are fighting for it to be useful in all honesty. That makes it kinda a bad choice for scrolls or wands...now staffs on the other hand.
Staffs with dispel would be better, yes. Trouble with staffs is they are so expensive and it takes a feat to make them yourself instead of being bundled with craft wand or magic arms and armor or even rods. Personally, I just scribe a new dispel scroll every time I level so its fresh and I end up having extras of lower level. I use them so rarely it's not a big expense.
Speaking of caster levels on scrolls though, the scrollmaster archetype's level 10 ability to treat scrolls like staff's would be pretty sweet if you didn't need level 10 to use it and the other scrollmaster abilities weren't crap and took away the arcane bond. Sigh.
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Taking staff-like wand from Ultimate Magic can also help alleviate the need to memorize dispel magic. Another option, also just as feat intensive as the one above, is taking preferred spell(dispel magic) as that will allow you to not memorize dispel magic and just swap out spells when you need dispel magic.
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As a spontaneous caster (Oracle) who can spam the spell, Dispel Magic has saved the day when the need arose, notably dispelling Deeper Darkness multiple times in a single fight against baddies with the at-will SLA and dispelling a Dominate Person cast on the party beat stick in the first round. I don't often have reason to use it, but having it in my arsenal gives me options.
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The trouble with dispel in wands and scrolls is you need them to be CL appropriate for what you are fighting for it to be useful in all honesty. That makes it kinda a bad choice for scrolls or wands...now staffs on the other hand.Staffs with dispel would be better, yes. Trouble with staffs is they are so expensive and it takes a feat to make them yourself instead of being bundled with craft wand or magic arms and armor or even rods. Personally, I just scribe a new dispel scroll every time I level so its fresh and I end up having extras of lower level. I use them so rarely it's not a big expense.
Creating a staff is CHEAPER then a wand. Wand is spell level x CL x 750. Staff is spell level x CL x 400. Since you need craft wand to craft a wand anyways, why not take craft staff instead and have a staff of dispel for even less money?
Creating a staff is CHEAPER then a wand. Wand is spell level x CL x 750. Staff is spell level x CL x 400. Since you need craft wand to craft a wand anyways, why not take craft staff instead and have a staff of dispel for even less money?
Wait... you can make a staff with just one spell on it? I was just going by the premade example staves.
Edit: Ah... just re-read the staff crafting section. Minimum caster level of a staff has to be 8, which precludes making a dirt cheap staff :(
So the minimum price of a staff would be 3200GP for a 1st level spell staff (400 * 1 * 8.) Shame you can't make a 400gp CL 1 staff of mage armor and recharge it every few days.
This is a bit different than I thought, and a lot better in the long run. Still a high minimum price though. I'll have to look into getting some cheap staves, assuming whatever campaign I'm in allows enough down time to recharge them.
The problem is the Wand would be a set CL while the Staff would be as powerful as if you cast it yourself. If you really wanna get cheesy make it cost 2 Charges each and it becomes 1600GP.
Wait... you can make a staff with just one spell on it? I was just going by the premade example staves.
Edit: Ah... just re-read the staff crafting section. Minimum caster level of a staff has to be 8, which precludes making a dirt cheap staff :(
So the minimum price of a staff would be 3200GP for a 1st level spell staff (400 * 1 * 8.) Shame you can't make a 400gp CL 1 staff of mage armor and recharge it every few days.
This is a bit different than I thought, and a lot better in the long run. Still a high minimum price though. I'll have to look into getting some cheap staves, assuming whatever campaign I'm in allows enough down time to recharge them.
I am confused about how to create magic items. And I think most of it comes from using too many abbreviations therefore, I wont use any.
So if I want to create a rod of quicken I have to be caster level 17 and have the Quicken spell (which of course does not exist so I guess they mean the feat. So at caster level 17 I would have no reason to create the rod. I thought you could increase the difficulty class if you did not have the required stuff?
The CL isn't a Requirement unless stated otherwise.
The CL isn't a Requirement unless stated otherwise.
Azaelas, could you kindly link or post a few examples where the Caster Level is a requirement?
Thanks,
+J
Ioun Stones. CL must be at least 12.
Creating a staff is CHEAPER then a wand. Wand is spell level x CL x 750. Staff is spell level x CL x 400. Since you need craft wand to craft a wand anyways, why not take craft staff instead and have a staff of dispel for even less money?
You're misreading the prices.
To create a magic wand, a character needs a small supply of materials, the most obvious being a baton or the pieces of the wand to be assembled. The cost for the materials is subsumed in the cost for creating the wand: 375 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster. Wands are always fully charged (50 charges) when created.
To create a magic staff, a character needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being a staff or the pieces of the staff to be assembled.
The materials cost is subsumed in the cost of creation: 400 gp × the level of the highest-level spell × the level of the caster, plus 75% of the value of the next most costly ability (300 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster), plus 1/2 the value of any other abilities (200 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster). Staves are always fully charged (10 charges) when created.
The cost to purchase a wand is spell level x CL x 750, the cost to craft a wand is spell level x CL x 375.
The cost to craft a staff is spell level x CL x 400.Staves are more expensive.
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man i wreck encounters with my cleric. he heals, and debuffs/buffs,he wrecks NPC casters. between move action healing, silence, haste/slow, and held action dispels he is a linchpin of our group.
alot of people have issues with holding action to counterspell, but when i play support classes i find it to be very very powerful. the only problem with counterspelling, is there is no way of shutting down SLAs, but thats where dispel magic comes into play.