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I am not 100% on all the rules, but if something gets cleared by one GM, I don't see why another is giving me grief about the same thing.
I was leveling up one of my characters, and as a level one, just starting out, I had the option of playing on a 4-5 tier of a 1-5 tier adventure. Not, needless to say that I survived, but I got more than 3 times the gold I would have gotten as a 1-2 tier or the same adventure. That said, I did that twice and then my third exp. point was from a 1-2 tier of a 1-5 tier adventure, as usual. My gold at the end of those three adventures was enough to buy a mithral breastplate, 4200 GP. That IS a long way away from the usual 1650 GP (give or take, more like 1700) at level 2, so when my GM looked at my sheet during the game, he decided to call me a cheater to the other GMs. I had that armor (6) a shield spell (4), reduce person (1-2), 18 dex. (20 with reduce person) (4-5), dodge feat (1), expert duelist (Taldor) (1), and combat expertise (1). As well as a wand of shield of faith (2) which an oracle cast on me. Needless to say, I didn't need all that AC at level 2, but I wanted to see it all on me for vanity effects. That comes to 31 in the right situation (6+4+4+2+2+2+1=31) I was a Dervish of Dawn, Spire Defender, I could have been an Thiefling with Armor of the Pit, but I was an elf with breath of Experience.
I had asked all around weather the extra gold was illegal and nobody gave me a no, outside of the look people give people that are too happy about what they have. I almost got banned for that. I am working on the other issues that make me not a nice person to play with, (and this), but I cannot feel that just because I am trying to make a "kind" of character, I should be treated this way, at least not with proper explanation.
Thanks for commenting.
V
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So, you are well ahead of the WBL curve, and it surprised the GM who had an inappropriate response. "Played mostly 4-5 tier for my first level" is a lucky level one.
Calling you out as a cheater with signed properly filled out chronicles is just terrible form. That said, there's some legitimate concern to be had about a character with WBL that far above the rest of the table spotlight-hogging...
Your GM needs someone to talk with them about how to handle concerns like that better, in my opinion.
I'm not going to try and count off your bonus math now, I suspect you might be off by one or two points because of armor dex cap but wouldn't swear to it without looking, and wouldn't worry about it as long as you can name off types and quote me the mithral modified version of it being +5 max rather than +4...
Yea, Mithril Breastplate has +5 Max Dex bonus thanks to the Mithral, so he's good there.
Depending on the group and previous GM's, it is possible to survive a 4-5 misison at level, particularly for some season 1-2 missions. That being said, it is unusual at early levels, but will balance out by then. So long term, it's not THAT big of a deal.
Also, that's every nearly every single GP Vincent's character would have had to have to get said armor. Luckily, PP can cover some other necessities, but still, huge wealth dump right there.
That being said, the GM that ran Vincent through those first couple of games should have forced the use of a pregen. I wouldn't have ran a level 1 PC, especially a brand new one, in a 4-5. A level 4 pregen would have been just fine, still netted you 500gp, and not possibly put the group or your character at unnecessary risk. I'll chalk that up to the GM trying to be nice, but that did indirectly cause the grief you got from the other GM.
As a side note for my curiousity, what kind of character are you playing? It looks like a magus or bard (can't tell from your post)? If so, I have some bad news for your character and his armor...
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You can have that armor even with a monk/spire defender or kensai (lvl2) with mage armor. And breastplate is 6/3 (6/5 for mitral). I don't even mind delaying the addition of those modules to a level 3 character, but I just think that I should have been given time to comply. Anyway, it's all worked out now, I just wanna clear my name, that's all.
Also, my first character was a Divine Hunter/Draconic sorcerer with Budgeoneer and Enforcer feats. I was using blunt arrows to deal non-lethal damage to trigger my free intimidate check. I was told that I couldn't use it because it was language dependent. The only thing that is says in the book is 30 ft. and see and hear. That doesn't sound like language dependent.
I was told that I lose my Dex. bonus to AC when grappled. Things like that (I wasn't pinned.)
The latest was that I would have too much AC (again) if I could get a special material item (not dragon hide) with a +1 enchant over my Fame Points. It's only +1 AC, but still, that it the max.
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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My last game was me and 3 other level 6's, a level 2 and a level 1. Played the subtier 6-7 on a tier 1-7. Everything went fine, and the 1st level still proved useful. It helped that two of the 6th level characters were focused on bodyguarding, and the mission was a fairly easy one, but there's nothing wrong with playing up.
My very first Pathfinder game I played up in a 1-7 mod.
It happens.
-j
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Venture-Lieutenant, Maryland—Frederick
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My last game was me and 3 other level 6's, a level 2 and a level 1. Played the subtier 6-7 on a tier 1-7. Everything went fine, and the 1st level still proved useful. It helped that two of the 6th level characters were focused on bodyguarding, and the mission was a fairly easy one, but there's nothing wrong with playing up.
Thistle, I don't think that was quite legal. I don't think a 1st or 2nd Level can play a 6-7 subtier in a >2 tiered scenario as per below:
"Some scenarios or special events offer more than two subtiers. In these cases, no PC can play at a subtier more than 1 step away from her
character level." Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play page 32.
You might want to talk with your GM a bit as those players could have problems later on if their Chronicle sheets are examined. Just trying to save you some later on drama.
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I was a Dervish of Dawn Bard Archetype and a Spire Defender Magus archetype multiclassing level 2 character. David Higaki: "As a side note for my curiousity, what kind of character are you playing? It looks like a magus or bard (can't tell from your post)? If so, I have some bad news for your character and his armor..." Mm, what is it?
Patrick Harris: "
What exactly is your question? Are you just complaining about the GM who called you a cheater?"
I am complaining about being complained about. So yeah. But a lot of people didn't like, where I play, in NYC, that I like to make the bad guys roll a 20 in order to hit me, when armor is relevant. Now grapple is a different story. And then they want to take my whole AC from that. Not cool.
David Higaki: "Losing Dex to AC when grappled is partially correct; it is a -4 Dex penalty."
Yes, partially. But ONLY partially, and not even close to the implications of losing all of your "touch" AC. If I am the equivalent of Flat Footed, that is really really bad, and all they have to do is work on my CMD for another round, not like it is that far away from grappled. But still. And, they are grappled too. I like to be useful to my group as well. :P
I generally don't like one GM OK'ing something and then another saying that I am cheating. Way not cool. At least give me some cred for checking with a GM. It shouldn't be my fault that the other GM OK'ed it. That is like one judge letting me go free, and another saying that I ran away from prison. Way, way, way, not cool. lol
And what is so bad about raising up my AC/defenses anyway. It is the one thing that I don't have to roll for. I even like feats like Archon Style and that style's progression. As well as anything that diverts attention from my allies to myself. Tanking so to speak. Of course, I didn't have the levels for that, but still.
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I was a Dervish of Dawn Bard Archetype and a Spire Defender Magus archetype multiclassing level 2 character...
As an aside--you'll see a lot of variation between GMs as to whether they'll let you use options if you don't have a legal source. I, for one, am likely to let players do so as long as I know what the ability does. But if you don't own the source and you're willing to risk the chance of not getting to play the character, you should at least still be checking on the prd, not d20pfsrd.
(A cookie for the first person who knows how I can tell this)
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I generally don't like one GM OK'ing something and then another saying that I am cheating. Way not cool. At least give me some cred for checking with a GM. It shouldn't be my fault that the other GM OK'ed it. That is like one judge letting me go free, and another saying that I ran away from prison. Way, way, way, not cool. lol
Sometimes this happens and the best you can do is take a deep breath and explain to the judge why something that seems off is kosher. With that said, your attitude here seems to be "I got one GM to OK it, I should be OK, it's not my fault". I would recommend instead a more proactive attitude. "I know its OK because I checked this rule on p. XX of the guide/rulebook, whatever" is a much better response than "Hey Jim over there said it was OK so I should be able to do it". This is especially true in organized play as you've got to be able to show your character is legal if asked, especially if you take it somewhere else.
As for raising up your defenses, more power to you. Just be prepared to have enemies ignore you once they realize they can't hit you.
Also, you should be taking your armor check penalty on attack rolls for not having proficiency in medium armor (unless you've picked it up through using a feat) is the bad news referred to above I suspect. Breastplate still counts as medium armor in terms of armor proficiency and its associated penalties. You also can't ignore the spell failure chance.
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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With that said, your attitude here seems to be "I got one GM to OK it, I should be OK, it's not my fault". I would recommend instead a more proactive attitude. "I know its OK because I checked this rule on p. XX of the guide/rulebook, whatever" is a much better response than "Hey Jim over there said it was OK so I should be able to do it". This is especially true in organized play as you've got to be able to show your character is legal if asked, especially if you take it somewhere else.
To be fair, he's not saying "GM said it was okay, so it should be okay." He's saying "GM said it was okay, so I shouldn't be immediately called a cheater by everyone else."
Also, you should be taking your armor check penalty on attack rolls for not having proficiency in medium armor (unless you've picked it up through using a feat) is the bad news referred to above I suspect. Breastplate still counts as medium armor in terms of armor proficiency and its associated penalties. You also can't ignore the spell failure chance.
The Armor Expert trait will deal with the ACP issue, since a mithral breastplate is only -1. As for spell failure chance, a mithral breastplate is light armor for everything except proficiency. Bards and magi get to ignore ASF chance in a mithral breastplate (regardless of proficiency or ACP, as well).
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I was a Dervish of Dawn Bard Archetype and a Spire Defender Magus archetype multiclassing level 2 character...
As an aside--you'll see a lot of variation between GMs as to whether they'll let you use options if you don't have a legal source. I, for one, am likely to let players do so as long as I know what the ability does. But if you don't own the source and you're willing to risk the chance of not getting to play the character, you should at least still be checking on the prd, not d20pfsrd.
(A cookie for the first person who knows how I can tell this)
Cause he's using the "generic" name from the d20pfsrd?
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The Armor Expert trait will deal with the ACP issue, since a mithral breastplate is only -1. As for spell failure chance, a mithral breastplate is light armor for everything except proficiency. Bards and magi get to ignore ASF chance in a mithral breastplate (regardless of proficiency or ACP, as well).
Gotcha. Should have used that trick on my magus to get the breastplate earlier :) His magus archetype normally doesn't get to, but combined with the bard it works. That's actually a nice combination of archetypes...
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Cause he's using the "generic" name from the d20pfsrd?I was a Dervish of Dawn Bard Archetype and a Spire Defender Magus archetype multiclassing level 2 character...
As an aside--you'll see a lot of variation between GMs as to whether they'll let you use options if you don't have a legal source. I, for one, am likely to let players do so as long as I know what the ability does. But if you don't own the source and you're willing to risk the chance of not getting to play the character, you should at least still be checking on the prd, not d20pfsrd.
(A cookie for the first person who knows how I can tell this)
We have a winner! Take an internet cookie.
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Also, you should be taking your armor check penalty on attack rolls for not having proficiency in medium armor (unless you've picked it up through using a feat) is the bad news referred to above I suspect. Breastplate still counts as medium armor in terms of armor proficiency and its associated penalties. You also can't ignore the spell failure chance.
I had Armor Expert Character trait. 4-3 for mithral -1 for trait =0. Which basically means that you don't need proficiency if you are planning to do this. As well as a Kikko armor has 3 penalty which All goes away from being mithral. Mithral also makes the medium armor light, which means you can sleep in it, you can move in it with normal speed, and that the ONLY thing that makes it medium is the proficiency. Unless you guys think that that is not the case. But this they had no problem with. The spell chance failure that is.
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Gotcha. Should have used that trick on my magus to get the breastplate earlier :) His magus archetype normally doesn't get to, but combined with the bard it works. That's actually a nice combination of archetypes...
Thanks. I wish my GM saw it that way. I guess he had it with Derv of Dawn/ Kensai combos cause he said that that was my combo to the player next to me, when he was confused or something. I tried correcting him, but I think he had enough of me at that point. I AM working my way up to his/their good side. I hope it eventually works.
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It's definitely not cheating, but it does prevent you from having those truly memorable scenarios...cool.
To be honest, like I said, I only did it for the vanity of seeing my maximum AC come out. I don't need that AC, and getting hit is just fine for the most part, as long as there is a healer with a happy stick. WCLW. Also, one of the spells was cast by a divine caster. But Shield and reduce person makes me at 27(+2). 25 +2 if just shield. which means 21 + 2 without. Heavy armor is 1500 GP which is + 10 AC at 2500 GP, that is 21 right there. A +1 shield is +3 AC so that is 24 with no need to cast spells, 1277 GP. Total = 3777 GP. 24 armor. My Arch gives me two feats. Both add to AC.
That Aside, let me ask you, what is your optimum range for having to roll in order to hit a character? An NPC? 15-20? 10-20? The larger the better right? Or you have some other ideas, glad to hear them.
Now, turn it around, what do you want the GM to roll in order to hit you? 15-20, 10-20? If you don't have armor, and the creature has +9 on Attack Rolls, that is 100% of rolls, no need to even roll.
Given, this is just metagaming, and fundamentally a flaw in all D 20 die randomization board games/table tops, but that is the best that we can make it. I personally think of a 5% chance/per die rolled to hit is strange. I would not mind having some kind of diminishing returns. Maybe in the next revising of the rules. Or maybe they should make more touch attack opponents.
But as a whole, I understand that the game should be fun for everybody, even people that don't understand that high AC can prevent massive damage each round, so I am not trying to make everybody play like me. But I don't think that I should be hit with each attack the bad guys make, and I understand that higher AC reduces that chance EXPONENTIALLY. The difference between 5% and 10% is 100%. 10% to 15% is 50%. 15 to 20 is 33%. 20 to 25 is 25%. Then 20, 17, 14,12.5,11, 10, and so on. You see that the higher the AC the more each new AC closes the gap of opportunity for the enemy. This is not diminishing returns. This is the opposite. This is a cause for specialization. Do I have an issue with that. No, just with getting hit. : ) lol
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My last game was me and 3 other level 6's, a level 2 and a level 1. Played the subtier 6-7 on a tier 1-7. Everything went fine, and the 1st level still proved useful. It helped that two of the 6th level characters were focused on bodyguarding, and the mission was a fairly easy one, but there's nothing wrong with playing up.
For Future reference, it is not legal for a Level 1 and 2 to play in sub-tier 6-7 in a tier 1-6 scenario. You cannot play in a subtier more than 1 step away from your character level. So in a Tier 1-7 scenario a level 1 and 2 can only play in sub-tiers 1-2 and 3-4.
Here is the relevant rule
Some scenarios or special events offer more than two subtiers. In these cases, no PC can play at a subtier more than 1 step away from her character level.
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Thanks dragnmoon! I had wondered that myself and went back to reread the guide and sure enough it does say that. Not that I have ever had the chance to skip an entire sub-tier with a character (even in earlier seasons that sounds like suicide to me).
Sounds like a good way to lose a PC number to me, too.
Don't have my copy of that scenario at work, so I can't double check his level, but he is a single opponent, and the BBEG for the whole scenario, and I seem to recall that his sub-tier 1-2 version is still 3rd or 4th level.
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All the calculation adds up pretty well, unfortunately no one has pointed out the fact that even though you have gold to buy the Mithral breastplate, you don't have the fame to purchase it. You need 18 fame to be able to make a 4,200 gp purchase.
It's always available, making mithral medium armor the thing to buy for non-wizard/sorcs who play up a lot.
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What other names are there? I was using that name because I wasn't sure that people would know what I was talking about if I said anything else. What would you call these two Arche's?
Use the actual names for them from the books, the ones that are legal for Pathfinder Society play. If you use the d20pfsrd name that they just made up a month or so ago now that they can't use the Community Use Policy, you're going to have a lot more GMs who don't know what you're talking about. I happen to know this one, but one player came to me with some kind of really generic sounding archetype for alchemists that I'd never heard of that wound up being the renamed archetype from Quantium in Nex, but I had to get my computer and go to d20pfsrd to see what the archetype really was (they have the real name in the url). At that point, I advised him that the character needed to have studied in Quantium.
For Dawnflower Dervish, for example, there's a lot of religious and roleplaying flavor about these guys (you can find some of the backstory here).
In my opinion, one of the coolest things about these archetypes is the flavor--a Spire Defender/Dawnflower Dervish is a very strange character, and so it probably would be great fun to roleplay alongside one, so long as the character backstory and personality took into account those two conflicting RP factors.
One thing to note: you can't play more than one tier above your level. So in a 1-7 with subtiers 1-2, 3-4, 6-7, a level 1 could play in 1-2 or 3-4 but not the 6-7. A level 3 could play in any subtier and a level 7 could only play in the upper 2 subtiers.
To confuse things a bit, the "only one tier up" restriction didn't appear until I think Season 2.
Though I don't think this is a factor in the OP's case.
-j
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In answer to the OP - I think there are several aspects here
1) How you have been handled by the GM
Cheater is a very loaded word in RPG circles. Did he actually use the word or was this your interpretation. Either way - it was wrong.
2) If it sounds off then often it is off.
An AC31 at level 2 for a bard/magus? You show that it is possible - BUT don't spring this on an unexpected GM. Tell him before the game - well - this might sound off - but here is how it works. Also bring the books with you. You need quite a collection to get this trick off and a GM is in his right to check you have the sources.
Well - not only in his right - I was told off by Mike personally when he misinterpreted one of my posts here that I wouldn't check and encouraged other GMs not to check either. I might be lax - but expect me to check this in the future - and ideally before the game. I hope you had all the books with you?
3) If something was cleared by a different GM then it's okay
This is just plain wrong. Excuse the clear language here. But if this is the case then you have to look for a GM who allows a grey area and from then onwards it will always be allowed. This would slowly undermine the rules.
The biggest and longest rule discussion at my table was with a VC who wasn't happy with one of my rule calls. This means he would have ruled differently at his table. I even started a thread in the rules forum to ensure I didn't got it wrong.
Please don't interpret 3) as a GM can do what he likes. Actually it is the opposite. I know in your case that the first GM seems to got it right (assuming you have all books at the table) but next time you might play in the opposite order and you would likely agree with me as this also applies to 'something was not allowed by different GM then it will never be okay' which is equally wrong.
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All the calculation adds up pretty well, unfortunately no one has pointed out the fact that even though you have gold to buy the Mithral breastplate, you don't have the fame to purchase it. You need 18 fame to be able to make a 4,200 gp purchase.It's always available, making mithral medium armor the thing to buy for non-wizard/sorcs who play up a lot.
Dope. Totally forgot Mithral was always available. Well definitely looks good then.
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Dope. Totally forgot Mithral was always available. Well definitely looks good then.All the calculation adds up pretty well, unfortunately no one has pointed out the fact that even though you have gold to buy the Mithral breastplate, you don't have the fame to purchase it. You need 18 fame to be able to make a 4,200 gp purchase.It's always available, making mithral medium armor the thing to buy for non-wizard/sorcs who play up a lot.
No worries--it's harder for me to forget, since both of my characters who didn't start with First Steps wound up with over 4000 gold before they had enough Fame to buy anything else (I think about 18 Fame is the point after which Fame is rarely an issue for purchasing, at least in my experience, but Fame is pretty restrictive until then).
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Cheater is a very loaded word in RPG circles. Did he actually use the word or was this your interpretation. Either way - it was wrong.
Well, what really was said, is not just the word cheater. What had happened was, that all of the conflict the GMs made me go through (a list to follow) had me really upset, and feisty. Let me just start from where I remember.
The first thing was me asking all kinds of questions about my options as a player, like a Quilted Cloth with Mage Armor would still retain the DR 3 against arrows and such. That was a conflict. The word at the time was "Power Player" and without any actual experience of how I play, I was told that I couldn't play with people that didn't power play. I didn't get it then and I don't get it now. So, I made my character a little bit OK. A Bludgeoner, Enforcer Human, Divine Hunter, Draconic Sorcerer. Lvl 2 The problem there was that I was told that I couldn't Intimidate to Demoralize after I hit with my Blunt Arrows within 30 feet, because Demoralize was "Language Dependent". Nonsense.
Also, there was an altercation with a player who told me pretty much to go heal one of our party members. I was a paladin with a wand and he was a cleric with positive energy (nothing spent). The player getting attacked had 1 HP and 14 Con. It was a level 1 Tier difficulty. And the player was being grappled, so only light weapons and such. The cleric decided to use Channels instead of cure light wounds. 1d6 vs. 1d8 +1. I was trying to intimidate the enemy for the -2 to attack and damage, as well as drop that bozo.
In any case, HE didn't stop telling me what to do, after I repeatedly told him that I have heard what he has to say and that I am going to do what I "want" to do. The the final decision was mine. He told me that he knows that, bla bla bla and then repeated that he was going to die, then I say no, only unconscious, bla bla bla. In any case, he processed to say that this is a social game, implying that I was being anti-social. At which point, since the GM didn't seem to care about my rights as a player, as if a paladin with a stick has to do the job of a cleric, as if my +6 to attack wasn't a better qualifier than his +2, despite his great sword vs. my longbow (2d6+3 vs. 1d8+2 + intimidate), ... anyway the GM didn't tell him to leave me alone, so I had to tell him to shut up. He didn't want to do that either. Called me rude, I was just trying to intimidate the damn enemy, but I was stuck in an argument and the GM didn't give a damn. I have never been so insulted in my life by a complete stranger. I was so frustrated that I started arguing about everything. Until I made my first mistake, the turn order.
In any case, that plus one time these guys were hogging the table with their "fun" and the other three of us were bored as hell, and this guy was given the 5 Energy Resistance to cold Boots, and he was taking cold damage and was putting it on his sheet. Since I knew him better, (he is kind of a sleepy head) I was a little snappy with the way I reminded him why we gave him the boots. Well, since the other three really didn't care what any of us had to say, they felt like I was being out of line. I swear, there was never a pause between them and the GM for me to tell him naturally. It was the second time he was taking Cold damage.
OK, after all that, I did some more research on what I can do that didn't involve intimidate, since it seemed like everybody cared about how much damage is done during combat. Anyway, I started a new character. I played him for 2 weeks straight and on the last mod, after he checked my sheet during play, even though I told him before we started what I was doing, after the mod, he told me that I should give up that gold somehow. I was fine with that.
Next thing I know, they are trying to ban me. With the main reason, "The cheating" You tell me...
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Vincent, where did all this take place? Much of what you describe sounds like it needs to be reported, and handled between you and the other people involved and your nearest/most applicable Venture Captain, as opposed to going into any further detail/discussion on a public message board.
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Vincent, where did all this take place? Much of what you describe sounds like it needs to be reported, and handled between you and the other people involved and your nearest/most applicable Venture Captain, as opposed to going into any further detail/discussion on a public message board.
This, contact your V-C or V-L directly and try to get some resolution that way.
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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My last game was me and 3 other level 6's, a level 2 and a level 1. Played the subtier 6-7 on a tier 1-7. Everything went fine, and the 1st level still proved useful. It helped that two of the 6th level characters were focused on bodyguarding, and the mission was a fairly easy one, but there's nothing wrong with playing up.For Future reference, it is not legal for a Level 1 and 2 to play in sub-tier 6-7 in a tier 1-6 scenario. You cannot play in a subtier more than 1 step away from your character level. So in a Tier 1-7 scenario a level 1 and 2 can only play in sub-tiers 1-2 and 3-4.
Here is the relevant rule
Some scenarios or special events offer more than two subtiers. In these cases, no PC can play at a subtier more than 1 step away from her character level.
Ooops. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll talk to him about it on tuesday. It's a two-parter, so he'll probably use a pregen next session. What's the easiest way to fix his chronicle? Just drop it down to the subtier 4-5 reward?
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Ooops. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll talk to him about it on tuesday. It's a two-parter, so he'll probably use a pregen next session. What's the easiest way to fix his chronicle? Just drop it down to the subtier 4-5 reward?My last game was me and 3 other level 6's, a level 2 and a level 1. Played the subtier 6-7 on a tier 1-7. Everything went fine, and the 1st level still proved useful. It helped that two of the 6th level characters were focused on bodyguarding, and the mission was a fairly easy one, but there's nothing wrong with playing up.For Future reference, it is not legal for a Level 1 and 2 to play in sub-tier 6-7 in a tier 1-6 scenario. You cannot play in a subtier more than 1 step away from your character level. So in a Tier 1-7 scenario a level 1 and 2 can only play in sub-tiers 1-2 and 3-4.
Here is the relevant rule
Some scenarios or special events offer more than two subtiers. In these cases, no PC can play at a subtier more than 1 step away from her character level.
Now someone may come in and say this is bad advice; so take it with a grain of salt. In my case I would treat it as if he had played a pregen in the first part. The player just won't be able to apply the xp, gold, and prestige until his actual character reaches that level. So say 7th level if he uses the 7th level pregen in the second part of the pair of scenarios.
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Also, my first character was a Divine Hunter/Draconic sorcerer with Budgeoneer and Enforcer feats. I was using blunt arrows to deal non-lethal damage to trigger my free intimidate check. I was told that I couldn't use it because it was language dependent. The only thing that is says in the book is 30 ft. and see and hear. That doesn't sound like language dependent.
Vincent
Could you explain how this works - I must be missing something here
Benefit: Whenever you deal nonlethal damage with a melee weapon, you can make an Intimidate check to demoralize your target as a free action. If you are successful, the target is shaken for a number of rounds equal to the damage dealt. If your attack was a critical hit, your target is frightened for 1 round with a successful Intimidate check, as well as being shaken for a number of rounds equal to the damage dealt.
What do I miss that you can do this with your build using ranged weapons ?? Anyone else who can help here and explain?
Your builds seem overly complex for me as it took me some searches and look ups to check out some details and I'm not sure I'm missing some parts.
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Benefit: Whenever you deal nonlethal damage with a melee weapon, you can make an Intimidate check to demoralize your target as a free action. If you are successful, the target is shaken for a number of rounds equal to the damage dealt. If your attack was a critical hit, your target is frightened for 1 round with a successful Intimidate check, as well as being shaken for a number of rounds equal to the damage dealt.
You are right, it has to be melee weapon. I had the Earth Breaker as a starting point for that build. Enforcer seems better than I thought.