easiest would be to just ban the class :-D
The follow up. James' reply
Thanks Grick for letting me know how to link that BTW.
While I know James isn't the "rules guy" I asked him because he's very good about answering. I definitely feel the same way he does about it. I personally am not going to allow it at my table because eidolons with pounce = overkill to me.
Again this isn't a "rules verdict" but if someone wants to pursue that I'd be interested as to the response.
Jame's answer: Ys, it works you can full attack during a pounce in a surprise round.
That said he bans the class. But he agrees it works.He bans Summoner becsause he hates the flavor.
I have a Giant Praying Mantis animal companion that has the ability "sudden strike" which allows it to make a full attack in the surprize round.
Without that ability I would say no.
comparing pounce and sudden strike is like comparing apples and oranges.
Ok, for the numpty, WITHOUT sudden strike, you can't pounce in the supprize round as the ability specifically grants you a full attack action in the suprize round, which means you DON'T have it normally.
Ok, for the numpty, WITHOUT sudden strike, you can't pounce in the supprize round as the ability specifically grants you a full attack action in the suprize round, which means you DON'T have it normally.
No, Sudden strike doesn't say anything about pouncing in a surprise.
Plus, te animal companion ability is different than the actual Giant Mantis:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/vermin/mantis/giant-manti s
"During a surprise round, a giant mantis may act as if it had a full round to act, rather than just one standard action."
Nothing about a full attack, they get the full action instead.
But it does say you can have a full round - which includes a full attack. I would say that pounce - giving you a full attack at the end of a charge is a pretty good example of what you dont get in a suprize round because full attack action are not allowed.
I know it doesn't say anything about pounce, it's a different ability.
The point being sudden strike grants full attacks in the suprize round, something you don't have normally.
If you want to house-rule pounce in the suprize round, go for it! I don't think it's RAW or RAI.
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A full attack usually takes a full-round action, just as an attack usually takes a standard action.
But an attack doesn't have to take a standard action. It can be one element of a full attack, or as part of a charge (which is it's own full-round or partial action), or a free action (in the same round as you cast a touch attack spell), or not an action at all (attack of opportunity).
Similarly, while it usually takes a full-round action to make a full attack, Pounce allows you to take a full attack as part of a charge, which itself may be a full-round action or a partial action.
By 'partial action', I mean:-
If you are able to take only a standard action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed) and you cannot draw a weapon unless you possess the Quick Draw feat. You can't use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn.
The attack at the end of a normal charge doesn't take a standard action, it is part of the charge action, which is it's own action and burns a full-round (or standard with restricted activity).
The full attack allowed by Pounce doesn't burn a full-round action, it is part of whatever action the charge burned.
what is that!? the RAW!?!?
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what is that!? the RAW!?!?
If you mean, 'You can charge in the surprise round', then yeah! I quoted the RAW in the previous post re: restricted activity/charge as a standard action.
The surprise round restricts you to a single action.
In the 'full-round action' part of the Actions In Combat tables, it lists 'Charge' as a full-round action, with 'note 4'.
4 May be taken as a standard action if you are limited to taking only a single action in a round.
So you can definately charge in a surprise round, and the attack at the end of a charge is part of that charge action, not a separate standard action.
Pounce (Ex) When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can make a full attack.
And this full attack is part of the charge action, not a separate full-round action.
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what is that!? the RAW!?!?If you mean, 'You can charge in the surprise round', then yeah! I quoted the RAW in the previous post re: restricted activity/charge as a standard action.
The surprise round restricts you to a single action.
In the 'full-round action' part of the Actions In Combat tables, it lists 'Charge' as a full-round action, with 'note 4'.
4 May be taken as a standard action if you are limited to taking only a single action in a round.So you can definately charge in a surprise round, and the attack at the end of a charge is part of that charge action, not a separate standard action.
Pounce (Ex) When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can make a full attack.And this full attack is part of the charge action, not a separate full-round action.
Well said
The games I DM I allow both monsters and pc to take full round acts in surprise rounds but, this is done to promote the pc not to run and gun take time to plan and take precaution not to get found sleeping on the job.