| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Charging through friendly space vs. through unfriendly space.
Moving Through a Square
You can move through an unoccupied square without difficulty in most circumstances. Difficult terrain and a number of spell effects might hamper your movement through open spaces.
Friend: You can move through a square occupied by a friendly character, unless you are charging. When you move through a square occupied by a friendly character, that character doesn't provide you with cover.
*Note bold
Overrun
As a standard action, taken during your move or as part of a charge, you can attempt to overrun your target, moving through its square. You can only overrun an opponent who is no more than one size category larger than you. If you do not have the Improved Overrun feat, or a similar ability, initiating an overrun provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver. If your overrun attempt fails, you stop in the space directly in front of the opponent, or the nearest open space in front of the creature if there are other creatures occupying that space.
When you attempt to overrun a target, it can choose to avoid you, allowing you to pass through its square without requiring an attack. If your target does not avoid you, make a combat maneuver check as normal. If your maneuver is successful, you move through the target's space. If your attack exceeds your opponent's CMD by 5 or more, you move through the target's space and the target is knocked prone. If the target has more than two legs, add +2 to the DC of the combat maneuver attack roll for each additional leg it has.
So my question is, why not just overrun a friendly and then you can charge through friendly space no problem?
Hmm, that looks legal...
Of course, doing an overrun provokes an AoO, which you may not want to risk. I don't see too many builds with Improved Overrun.
Hmm...
The only problem with is the wording of overrun. It says it can be part of a move action OR a charge. Would this mean if you overrun as a move action you could pass by a friendly but not part of a charge?
So my question is, why not just overrun a friendly and then you can charge through friendly space no problem?Overrun
As a standard action, taken during your move or as part of a charge, you can attempt to overrun your target
I think we're intended to consider the target you're charging at to be the same target as the target you can attempt to overrun as part of the charge. In other words, the only target you can overrun as part of a charge is the target you're charging at.
I think we're intended to consider the target you're charging at to be the same target as the target you can attempt to overrun as part of the charge. In other words, the only target you can overrun as part of a charge is the target you're charging at.So my question is, why not just overrun a friendly and then you can charge through friendly space no problem?Overrun
As a standard action, taken during your move or as part of a charge, you can attempt to overrun your target
But then why would they need to move out of the way if you were already AT your desired target?
I don't understand that question.
If you're already at your target, you can't charge to begin with, because you need to start your charge at a distance of at least 10 feet from your target.
I've often been confused by overrun as part of a charge. I'd originally assumed it as intending to allow you to attack somebody beyond the front row e.g. to hit the wizard behind the fighter. But a previous thread pointed out that Overrun is a standard action and so it would count as the charge's attack. In which case it would be a way to perform a double move action and get past an opponent in the way.
In either case if the overrun is spent on an ally it cannot also be used on an enemy
That's what I was trying to say in my first answer, clumsily because I was trying to use the terms in the wording of the overrun maneuver.
When you're charging, the first thing you do is designate a target. You need to do that, because the path you need to take during that charge is tightly defined by your starting position and the position of your intended victim. You can't start moving before you've designated a target.
That target is the one you may overrun as part of the charge. You can't overrun anyone else as part of the charge, because if there's anyone in the way, you weren't even allowed to initiate the charge, as per:
If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can't charge.
The ideas by Forseti and Hugo Rune seem to be the only way to make the rules self consistent. To interpret otherwise seems to meet contradictions like "you both can and can't charge through friendly spaces".
I think you guys are also forgetting that in the wording of overrun. It says it can be part of a charge OR a move action. I think at that point it all depends on the type of move action you are doing depends on whether or not you can move through a friendly space.
You can move through a friendly square but not as a charge action. Ergo, you can overrun through a friendly square, but not if your doing an overrun as a part of a charge.
Well, I didn't address that because the OP only asked whether he could overcome the "charging not being allowed through friendlies" restriction by overrunning the friendlies, who would presumably chose to let him pass as overrun would let them.
I'm assuming he wants to charge an enemy and just hit it at the end of the charge, overrunning any friendlies in the way as a part of that charge.
Edit:
There's a perfectly good feat to allow charging through friendlies: Dragon Style. Not really applicable to all builds though.
You would lose your Charge Attack IIRC.
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The wording of overrun is such that you can do it either while moving (1x speed) or as a charge (2x speed). Either way the overrun is your standard action for the turn and doesn't allow you to make an additional attack (yes, it's a little poorly written). The important thing overrun does is let you move in a straight line through an enemy, possibly knocking them prone. So if I have a move of 30' REALLY want to be 60' forward directly through an enemy 15' away, I can charge 60' and overrun him. (The assumption here is that you can "charge" at nothing or at a point beyond your target. This slightly contradicts the charge section of the rulebook but the wording there is grey enough that I'm happy saying the overrun rules take precedence in this case.)
The problem is that without additional feats a clever enemy can just move out of the way of any character looking vaguely melee-ish and you just burned your standard for the turn.
There actually is a way to overrun someone and still attack - Charge Through lets you overrun as a free action. However, your allies won't like it because a prerequisite is Improved Overrun (with which the target of your overrun cannot choose to avoid you, and you can't choose to "not use it." So if you succeed you just knocked your ally prone.)
If you REALLY want to charge through your allies, Dragon Style is the way to go as Forseti said. It's a two feat investment (IUS and Dragon Style) that adds some minor saving throw bonuses but doesn't otherwise help a character that doesn't use unarmed attacks.
I would say the Charge is more of you start by charging them and just barrel through the target.