And the ability to detect evil makes it easy to pick out the bad guys in combat.
Doesn't work that way. Detect Evil really can't be used in combat. Takes at least 3 rounds to figure out anything useful. The spell is meant for outside of combat.
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And the ability to detect evil makes it easy to pick out the bad guys in combat.Doesn't work that way. Detect Evil really can't be used in combat. Takes at least 3 rounds to figure out anything useful. The spell is meant for outside of combat.
That's why paladins use a move action to check out one potential baddy at a time; if it pings, Smite time! : )
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Crusader
Actually, not really; my friends don't call me Hitler at all OOG... and IG, while the high-level parallels ARE there, nobody in the campaign world has heard of Hitler...
Rictras
If I'm behaving in an altruistic manner, it's for a reason. And NOT because I'm naturally-altruistic. I'm not. There is no hook for me in rescuing people from orcs, or bandits, or their own stupidity in using slash-and-burn agricultural techniques.
I have no interest in heroism; my character is adventuring to hone his own powers and in time become a Power in the world... for his own satisfaction, not to waste spells (or soldiers, or other resources) "in the name of Good."
Actually, the very statement "If I'm behaving in an altruistic manner, it's for a reason. And NOT because I'm naturally-altruistic." negates any form of altruism. Fundamentally, this is a purely greedy and/or selfish viewpoint, and given time will become massively destructive to all around such a character.
I happen to be in psychology, and such behavior is called "antisocial personality disorder". It also comes with side effects, like a pervasive lack of wise judgment, total lack of empathy, grandiose statements about oneself, etc. Frequently, it comes with multiple marriages, jail time.
A high degree of intelligence will partially mute this trait, however it IS pervasive in everything they do, with no exceptions. I can actually name a few famous figures that show nearly all the traits.
Marshmallow
There are plenty of players (our usual problem is finding ROOM for everyone).
There is no "we can't play" wrapped up in my "I won't play" (with a Paladin, or in a campaign with the [Good] descriptor).
Sorry you have a problem player.
Actually, the very fact that you won't play in any game that involves a Good character or Paladin indicates this is a "we can't play" by your own admission earlier. Interestingly enough, antisocial personality disorder also comes with frequent lying in an attempt to change the past to one's own benefit. This disorder is also known by psychopath, sociopath, etc. Many horror movies have played on this personality type to terrify their viewers.
Whether or not you in reality have this diagnosis is not the point to this post. What is the point is that whether you admit it or not, you are being fundamentally rigid and manipulative of the people around you. While nobody is saying we all play Good aligned characters all the time, what this thread has been trying to tell you is that the reality is that Evil alignments are banned from Pathfinder for an excellent reason.
Were I DMing you, it would not be difficult to nail you and your behavior through your own mistakes, of which I suspect are numerous despite your insistence to the contrary. I tend to enforce a very simple heuristic when running games: I don't give a damn how you treat NPC's, but you treat your fellow player characters as if you are LG. Alignment shifts over time, and in essence is in my campaigns a measurement of one's reputation according to society and the deities who influence it in game. Thus, your LE alignment would inevitably be detected, and society would treat you as if you were an destructive dragon by sending exterminators. Might take awhile depending on how well you and your group covered their tracks (to use your own phrase) but it would happen.
Don't you have to watch out for NPC paladins?
Exactly. But as DM I wouldn't be sending a single Paladin after you. No, I'd send armies, eventually.
What I personally wonder is if those around you are having any fun at all, given your deep seated need to control the game, and thus social time with this group. I start wondering how long that group will last, and what will be the social consequences of your actions in the real world.
i think the thread got derailed by this idea that cheese is trying to tell us "i dont play games with paladins, and no one else should either" demeanor
he is not spreading that to us, as a response to the OP he is just saying that he avoids the scenario where he has to deal with a paladin effectively c-blocking any dastardly thieving plans he has, which is his choice, and if his group is anything like mine, then its a good one
ive never really gotten to enjoy playing a paladin in my group because PvP always happens because someone always purposely plays evil characters, seemingly to spite the groups efforts
idk how many groups are like this, but seems like all players love to just go CN and fulfill a good campaigns necessities, but in a way that isnt good at all, and in the end its like we just end up killing the BBEG by mistake or by fluke, and not by some righteous cause
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i think the thread got derailed by this idea that cheese is trying to tell us "i dont play games with paladins, and no one else should either" demeanor
he is not spreading that to us, as a response to the OP he is just saying that he avoids the scenario where he has to deal with a paladin effectively c-blocking any dastardly thieving plans he has, which is his choice, and if his group is anything like mine, then its a good one
ive never really gotten to enjoy playing a paladin in my group because PvP always happens because someone always purposely plays evil characters, seemingly to spite the groups efforts
idk how many groups are like this, but seems like all players love to just go CN and fulfill a good campaigns necessities, but in a way that isnt good at all, and in the end its like we just end up killing the BBEG by mistake or by fluke, and not by some righteous cause
Personally I have heard that a lot that a person shouldn't play evil pc because someone else wants to play a paladin but that goes equally both way and a PC shouldn't play a paladin if someone wants to play an evil character. All PC should try and build compatiable pc's but if the player of an evil pc is willing to adventure with a paladin player and the paladin player isn't willing to adventure with an an evil pc then the paladin player is the problem.
If a PC decides to play a paladin in a party made up of 75% chaotic neutral pc's and tries to impose Lawful Goodness upon them he deserves any PvP that comes his way.
i agree with that, i also think people are very one-dimensional about paladin alignments, as if their version of LG is different from anyone elses
i hate scenarios where everyone else that isnt the paladin's player is the one that makes the paladins alignment the issue (including the DM) and thats no way to play and its more the root of issues than the paladin class itselfforcing people to be lawful stupid is worse than if the player was already lawful stupid to begin with
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Picollo once again, it should be pointed out that unless you have a very odd world, alignment alone is not enough to kill someone over.
In most peoples world killing someone in the streets, whether they are evil or not, will result in jail time for you. As long as he doesn't break any laws, saying "all people must be of the good alignment" as a law would be incredibly meta gamey for something thats completely RP.
Jail time doesn't make you fall. And that is all a Paladin care about. Not corrupt laws that let evil get away.
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There are ways for a nonevil creature to have an evil aura. The easiest one is to be a neutral cleric of an evil god, but there are also plenty of spells that can give a false ping on the evildar. So even if the paladin does believe that merely being evil deserves death they ought to be a little careful about who they smite.
ive never really gotten to enjoy playing a paladin in my group because PvP always happens because someone always purposely plays evil characters, seemingly to spite the groups efforts
idk how many groups are like this, but seems like all players love to just go CN and fulfill a good campaigns necessities, but in a way that isnt good at all, and in the end its like we just end up killing the BBEG by mistake or by fluke, and not by some righteous cause
Not the players I know - we tend to mix up heroic and selfish characters. Some of our games have slid more to the heroic or more to the selfish, and we had one evil party for a change of pace. Sometimes particular characters don't fit into particular campaigns or parties, but I don't think we've ever had a player feel like they blanket could not play a particular type of character with our group.
I think this thread is on a fast track to being shut down.
Everyone please take a step back from the keyboard, take a few deep breaths, and bring the discussion down a notch. Thanks.
Ok, apparently I wasn't clear enough. Stop sniping at each other, stop arguing over who sniped at whom, stop trying to define whether it was sniping. None of that is productive. If you'd like to discuss the ins and outs of playing with a paladin in the party, playing with evil characters and how that relates to paladins, etc. please continue to do so. That's on-topic. Who said what and how is not.
Please tone down the sarcasm. Sometimes people post while we're posting and it gets moved. If you have an objection to any post, flag it and move on. Please revisit the messageboard rules (specifically, the section on how to deal with offensive posts (http://stage.paizo.com/paizo/faq#v5748eaic9n1d) if you have any questions.