Hello all,
I'm looking to start up an Axe and Shield warrior for PFS and i'm having some difficulty settling on a few things.
#1. Race?
I don't want to play another human so i'm going back and forth between Half-Orc and Dwarf. Leaning heavily towards Dwarf because, well, i like them.
#2. Class?
I already have a Pally and Bard/Magus so i was looking for something Martial but not so much Arcane or Divine. I'm looking at either Ranger or Slayer. I'd like to try one of the new ACG classes but i'm leaning towards Ranger.
#3. Feats and Traits?
This one i'm pretty much drawing blanks on as far as good combos. I'd really like to go with fighting with an Axe in my main hand and Shield Bashing in the other?
So what i've got as a picture in my head is an typical armored Dwarf with Axe and Shield. Pretty tough frontliner with some actual out of combat usefulness.
Advice wanted or am i just really over thinking this.?
No human if at all possible and no Double Shield fighting.
Dwarf Ranger. Use a waraxe and shield, and take the Sword and Shield fighting style to get the good shield feats without prerequisites. It's pretty straight forward.
I had that character for a oneshot and he worked great.
Dwarf Ranger. Use a waraxe and shield, and take the Sword and Shield fighting style to get the good shield feats without prerequisites. It's pretty straight forward.
Just as i thought. I was over thinking it.
Just to throw it out there, though it does sound like your hear is set on ranger. The slayer from the ACG can take the ranger style feats, so you could still get the shield feats without the prerequisites.
Do No forget steel soul. Your saves can never be high enough.
So i'm looking at Dwarf Ranger 1-6th at least then maybe migrate to another class for some added goodies. Not decided as of yet.
Feats-
1. Improved Shield Bash
2. Combat Style- Two-Weapon Fighting(no pre-reques)
3. PA or Steel Soul
5. Boon Companion or PA if not taken at third
6. Combat Style- Shield Mastery
Maybe just go fighter levels to finish out his career.?
EDIT-
I like the Lore Warden, Two-Weapon and Unbreakable Archetypes. With Unbreakable at 7th i could nab Endurance/Die Hard(free) and Combat Expertise. Add in Stalwart @9th. Still need an 8th level Combat feat?
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Hello all,
I'm looking to start up an Axe and Shield warrior for PFS and i'm having some difficulty settling on a few things.
#1. Race?
I don't want to play another human so i'm going back and forth between Half-Orc and Dwarf. Leaning heavily towards Dwarf because, well, i like them.
Dump stat where it belongs? Best racial saves in game? Waraxe proficiency? No movement penalty in heavy armor?
Dwarf = win.
Have you ever tried a CRB fighter with a dwarf? Try it, and be amazed how this fantasy staple will just motor right through everything.#2. Class?
I already have a Pally and Bard/Magus so i was looking for something Martial but not so much Arcane or Divine. I'm looking at either Ranger or Slayer. I'd like to try one of the new ACG classes but i'm leaning towards Ranger.
#3. Feats and Traits?
This one i'm pretty much drawing blanks on as far as good combos. I'd really like to go with fighting with an Axe in my main hand and Shield Bashing in the other?
Warrior of Old (trait) and Steel Soul (feat) equals +3 to 90% of your saves. Defender of the Society (if PFS) is AC+1 with a trait.
TWF/shield-bashing is *insanely* feat intensive (and requires a MAD build, or ranger...which detracts from fighter weapon training); I'd avoid it until mid-levels.
Build (20pts)
STR:15
DEX:14
CON+16
INT:12 or 14
WIS+16 or 14
CHA-05
traits: Warrior of Old (racial), Defender of the Society (society)
00 saves (*versus magic and poison)
01 08 05 05 f1 Steel Soul
-- Why fail saves? Nothing sucks worse than sucking.
02 09 05 05 f2 Weapon Focus:waraxe
03 09 06 06 f3 Additional Traits: Dim Seer (regional), Hatred of the Gods (religion)
-- Perception now class with (often) a +2 bonus, and +1 to all saves versus divine magic
04 10 06 06 f4 STR>16, Weapon Specialization:waraxe
05 10 06 06 f5 [weapon training:axe group], Power Attack
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00 saves (*versus magic and poison)
01 08 05 05 f1 Steel Soul
-- Why fail saves? Nothing sucks worse than sucking.
02 09 05 05 f2 Weapon Focus:waraxe
03 09 06 06 f3 Additional Traits: Dim Seer (regional), Hatred of the Gods (religion)
-- Perception now class with (often) a +2 bonus, and +1 to all saves versus divine magic
04 10 06 06 f4 STR>16, Weapon Specialization:waraxe
05 10 06 06 f5 [weapon training:axe group], Power Attack
Screw-up: add 2 to ALL of those saving throws.
traits: Warrior of Old (racial)
Wanted to quote the relevant part here.
Warrior of old is and Elf racial trait i believe thus as a Dwarf i don't qualify. You may mean Glory of Old which is a Dwarf Regional which would preclude me from taking Dim Seer. I could see switching to Glory of Old and Militant Merchant for Perception.
As far as the rest, plain ol' vanilla fighter is really cool but Ranger offers me a few things over the fighter. Skills (Good for PFS), Feats without stat requirements from combat style and spells which allows me to use certain spell completion items like the ever useful Wand of Cure Light Wounds.
I can still finish out my career as a vanilla Fighter, i just think some of the upfront goodies from the Ranger outway that of the Fighter, IHO.
I went with
Ranger(1)
STR- 15
DEX- 14
CON- 16
INT- 14
WIS- 14
CHA- 5 (still not comfy with this but it's not much worse than a 7)
Traits= Glory of Old and Friends in Every Town(Knowledge Local).
Languages= Common, Dwarf, Skald and Hallit.
Feat= Improved Shield Bash.
Favored Enemy= Humans (Like a buncha dang vermin them humans are).
Skills=(1 rank each)Climb, Handle Animal, Know(Dungeon,Nature,Local),Perception and Survival.
Dwarven War Axe and Darkwood Light Shield and a Masterwork Agile Breastplate.
HPs= 14
AC= 19
@level 1.2(one session to go until level 2)
I'm still looking at some of the different Ranger Archetypes to trade away Companion and/or FE, i don't own Pirates of the Inner Sea at this time so no Freebooter. Getting rid of the companion will free me from taking boon companion and open a slot for Steel Soul. Otherwise i'll take my very first Fighter at 3rd and grab that as my level 3 feat and PA attack with my fighter BF.
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I would be wary of building a Dwarven Ranger since it takes away one of a Dwarf's greatest strengths: the ability to wear heavy armor with no movement penalty. And don't gimp your STR: 15 is too low for your primary attack stat, especially as a ranger (lacking all of the extra attack bonuses available to a fighter).
I'd go straight fighter to leverage the Dwarves' strengths:
STR- 17
DEX- 15
CON- 14
INT- 10
WIS- 14
CHA- 5
1 - Weapon focus: Dwarven Waraxe, TWF
2 - Improved shield bash
3 - Weapon Focus: Light Shield
4 - Weapon Specialization: Dwarven Waraxe; [STR+1=18]
5 - Weapon Specialization: Light Shield; Weapon Training: Axes
6 - Improved two weapon fighting (Requires +2 DEX belt, later should be upgraded to DEX/STR
7 - Steel Soul
8 - Greater Weapon Focus: Dwarven Waraxe [DEX+1=16]
9 - Greater Weapon Focus: Light Shield; Weapon Training: Close Weapons (Shields)
10 - Shield Bash
11 - Shield Master
Note: build doesn't include power attack. You can sub it in where you need it, if you feel it is necessary.
Downside: a lot less skill points than the ranger build would have been. Up side? MUCH more effective in combat with great offense and defense.
If you are going to be using a shield, might I suggest Viking from People of the North?
It is a fighter archetype that trades armor training for shield training, that improves shield AC. It trades weapon training for rage. And it can take barbarian rage powers.
I have one at level 8 who before power attacking has a to hit in the twenties while he is raging.
If you are going to be using a shield, might I suggest Viking from People of the North?
It is a fighter archetype that trades armor training for shield training, that improves shield AC. It trades weapon training for rage. And it can take barbarian rage powers.
I have one at level 8 who before power attacking has a to hit in the twenties while he is raging.
If this were a home game i would have looked into this more but it's for PFS and i don't own the source material at this time.
Still, shield master at level 6 is just that good. Go fighter if you care more about shield slam and bull rush, go ranger otherwise.
BY the way, slow and steady means you do not need mithral breastplate so you can save that moneoy or buy an adamantine one.
I haven't really decided on my armor yet. The MSTW Agile BP is just a place holder. Since i think i'm going to MC Fighter at 3rd level i'll be able to upgrade to Heavy Armor so i may just save my money for a later purchase.
I haven't really decided on my armor yet. The MSTW Agile BP is just a place holder. Since i think i'm going to MC Fighter at 3rd level i'll be able to upgrade to Heavy Armor so i may just save my money for a later purchase.Still, shield master at level 6 is just that good. Go fighter if you care more about shield slam and bull rush, go ranger otherwise.
BY the way, slow and steady means you do not need mithral breastplate so you can save that moneoy or buy an adamantine one.
Uhm, but only if yu can afford mithral armor, cause I think you can not use the ranger feats in heavy armor.
People of the North is a great book for PFS. It has the amazing Snowball spell in it, Viking fighter archetype, and an amazing feat for Mammoth Lord Barbarians (which I used once to start at level 1 with over 20hp). It's definitly worth the price of a PDF, but the actually book is pretty nice too.If this were a home game i would have looked into this more but it's for PFS and i don't own the source material at this time.If you are going to be using a shield, might I suggest Viking from People of the North?
It is a fighter archetype that trades armor training for shield training, that improves shield AC. It trades weapon training for rage. And it can take barbarian rage powers.
I have one at level 8 who before power attacking has a to hit in the twenties while he is raging.
If i were to buy the PDF for People of the North then i may be tempted to go in a slightly different direction with the build.
Ulfen Viking Fighter of the Taldor Faction, which is something i've been looking to build. I'll have to look into this but that does seem pretty fun and flavorful. We are also getting ready to play the Shades of Ice trilogy.
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Yup; Glory of Old. -- But Militant Merchant is a racial, which conflicts with GoO; so you'd take Eyes and Ears of the City (regional) for Perception).Warrior of old is and Elf racial trait i believe thus as a Dwarf i don't qualify. You may mean Glory of Old which is a Dwarf Regional which would preclude me from taking Dim Seer. I could see switching to Glory of Old and Militant Merchant for Perception.
traits: Warrior of Old (racial)
Ranger(1)
STR- 15
DEX- 14
CON- 16
INT- 14
WIS- 14
CHA- 5 (still not comfy with this but it's not much worse than a 7)
If you're a dwarf, you might as well have a 5 charisma because GMs are inclined to have their NPCa behave that way anyway.
Magical attacks which sap charisma are also quite rare (and this build makes saves anyway).
I'm still looking at some of the different Ranger Archetypes to trade away Companion and/or FE, i don't own Pirates of the Inner Sea at this time so no Freebooter. Getting rid of the companion will free me from taking boon companion and open a slot for Steel Soul. Otherwise i'll take my very first Fighter at 3rd and grab that as my level 3 feat and PA attack with my fighter BF.
I wouldn't bother with Boon Companion anyway if you only dip rager two levels. And don't waste precious skill points on Handle Animal. (I'd just keep a pet badger as an ornery out-of-combat roleplaying side-kick.)
Freebooter's Bane is hella kinds of good -- although it shines best in a build designed to win initiative. Tanks tend to go last; and eschewing combat in such a position may mean you don't actually swing your axe until the bottom of round 2. The "inspire"-like bonus is untyped, however, and everybody gets it. (I wouldn't put it past Paizo to errata-in a bonus type at some point, however -- probably Competence.)
Spells & Shields: an option here is to drop a single level of crusader cleric of Abadar for the Travel domain and a feat for Improved Shield Bash. This has you moving 40' in heavy armor after casting Longstrider; that plus cleric item use is worth BAB-1.
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I second this. You get shield feats easier with ranger, but you get more ac from your shield with Viking. Also, you get to be a Viking! And Demoralize as a move action at level 2.If you are going to be using a shield, might I suggest Viking from People of the North?
It is a fighter archetype that trades armor training for shield training, that improves shield AC. It trades weapon training for rage. And it can take barbarian rage powers.
I have one at level 8 who before power attacking has a to hit in the twenties while he is raging.
Demoralize is not a good match for a dwarf with a CHA of 5.
Viking is a good archetype; but I wouldn't call it better than CRB fighter (you give up weapon training for rage, meaning you're actually a little behind bonus-wise once the CRB fighter has his gloves of dueling).
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...which is going to get him up to about -10 behind a bandit rogue/cockatrice cavalier exploiting the Dazzling mechanic far, far better. I mean, here's a TWF shield/axe dwarf spending his first full round trying to intimidate with his average (NOT barbarian) strength bonus to dumped CHA, versus the professional doing it as a standard action in the surprise round.
-- When you're a dwarf, you don't mess around with fancy fop stuff; you growl and ram yourself head-first into the pile.